ST1300 London Mechanic Recommendations

Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
Age
33
Location
London
Bike
Honda ST1300 2008
Hi guys,

I've had my 2008 Pan 1300 for a little over a year now. Its done 27K miles total (7K which I have done the past year). Its been excellent to ride. However, my rear brake pads need replacing and the pistons look terrible. I suspect I may need a full rebuild of the brakes. After reading through all the guides, advice, posts, horror stories etc. I am quite worried that I may not be able to do this full rebuild by myself. I normally will bleed my own brakes but this complex system on the Pan is very concerning. My head is spinning after reading all the threads and PDF's!

Does anyone know of any mechanics in the London UK area that would be knowledgeable on the Pan, particularly the brake system? I may end up giving it a go myself but its not really a job I want to get wrong for obvious reasons. I'm OK on the tools but this looks like a job that I would at least like to be shown how to do first or just bring it to a garage. I worry that bringing it to any old garage could make things worse if they dont know what they are doing.

Apologies in advance if this has been answered already but I couldn't find any threads with any recommendations.
 

Willsmotorcycle

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Leaving the system in tact and cleaning the pistons before you change the pads is a good start. Then put in the new pads and do a flush of the system, its a couple hours, but you're not disassembling the bits, just cleaning. It does seem daunting, it just seems it though.

@jfheath is an expert on these systems, hopefully he can add some simple pointers.
 
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AlbionJames
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
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33
Location
London
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Honda ST1300 2008
Leaving the system in tact and cleaning the pistons before you change the pads is a good start. Then put in the new pads and do a flush of the system, its a couple hours, but you're not disassembling the bits, just cleaning. It does seem daunting, it just seems it though.

@jfheath is an expert on these systems, hopefully he can add some simple pointers.
Thanks for the reply.

I removed the rear pads today and cleaned the front two pistons but cant get to the rear without removing the rear wheel etc. But even after cleaning the front two they are in pretty bad shape. I will make sure the third piston is cleaned before doing any riding.

Im going to do a bit more searching to see if any mechanics are familiar with the bike. Hopefully a more thorough clean of the pistons may be sufficient.
 
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Also check your front brake system for your left caliper which when you apply brakes rotates to apply part of your rear brakes. If that is not free to move when applied and sticks when released it will tear up rear brakes.
It is a master cylinder for part of the front rear linked brake system and the piston under the small fork and pin at the bottom of the caliper should move freely
 
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AlbionJames
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
Age
33
Location
London
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Honda ST1300 2008
Also check your front brake system for your left caliper which when you apply brakes rotates to apply part of your rear brakes. If that is not free to move when applied and sticks when released it will tear up rear brakes.
It is a master cylinder for part of the front rear linked brake system and the piston under the small fork and pin at the bottom of the caliper should move freely
Hi

Yeah I checked that (SMC) and its working as intended. I can spin the rear wheel about one and a half turns with a good kick. If I lie down and spin the wheel and actuate the SMC, it stops the rear wheel wuth only 1mm or 2mm travel, which is normal.

The rear disc feels warm to the touch after a ride so they may be rubbing slightly but seems about normal.

Ive put 7K on her this year and the pads defo were not new to begin with so I think they are doing normal life.

I have to do a lot of filtering in heavy London traffic so I probably use rear brake more than most although Im going to try to not use it as much to preserve future pads.

Thanks fir the reply.
 

jfheath

John Heath
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It is normal for the pistons to look absolutely filthy. They get covered in crud kicked up from the road, and it can harden.
But they will normally clean up well to a shiny polished surface with a hint of bronze.

Post photos, it may help us to spot something.

Remove the pads - only pad pin removal is required for this, the pads will slide out easily if you rotate the back wheel backwards.

It is fiddly getting in there to clean the pistons, but much easier if you can take the caliper off the caliper bracket.

But it is possible to do it without, but you are working blind. A flat bootlace. soaked in brake fluid can be wrapped around each piston in turn and cleaned like drying your back with a towel. But it is difficult to see how effective this has been.

--------

You will see a hex headed bolt underneath the caliper. DO NOT REMOVE IT. This is one of the slider pins.

Instead you need to undo the much larger caliper bracket stopper bolt, and take the caliper and bracket off the axle. This means swinging both silencers down - the right one to take the axle out by a few inches, the right one to access the stopper bolt. It is a good idea to put the bike on the centrestand which is on a half inch piece of plywood. Ive had one st1300 where this was necessary to allow the right exhaust to swing down far enough to allow the axle to be pushed out partially. My current ST1300 does not need me to use the plywood. You may need help pulling the bike back to get it on the centre stand. Its much harder with the plywood.

The left silencer needs to swing down a bit to get the stopper bolt out. This has a large hex head 14mm I think, and the bolt is screwed into the top if the swing arm - the two brake hoses curve over the top of the casting where the bolt fits.

With axle pulled pulled out far enough , one end of the bracket is free to remove, with the stopper bolt removed, the other end is free as well. The bracket and caliper can be lifted over the brake disc and then separated. The bracket slides off the two slider pins - but be careful with the brake hoses - they should not be put under any strain.

The caliper can be turned upside down - the hoses are long enough to allow this. Find a piece of wood that will fit in the caliper in front of the pistons with a mm or two clear space. Gently press the brake pedal until all 3 pistons meet the piece of wood. Do not allow the wood to slip out - it is there to stop the pistons moving out too far. You are trying to move all 3 pistons out by just a mm or so. Take the wood out and do not touch the brake pedal again.

Now you can clean the pistons much more easily. Toothbrush and brake fluid, followed by flat bootlace and brake fluid. I keep the sewn hems from worn out cotton towels, teatowels, jeans - any old cotton stuff that gets discarded into the 'these will do for rags' bin in the garage.

Inspect the pistons for rough patches, corrosion or pitting, where the hardened shiny surface coating has started to lift or has come off. Even a small defect means that the piston needs to be replaced, as the piston seals will then not prevent fluid from getting out and braking will eventually fail.

I smear the exposed part if the nice shiny pistons with red rubber grease. This is specially made for hydraulic seals. Normal petroleum based grease causes the seals inside the caliper to swell cinsiderably and should not be used. Ive heard people say that this is a magnet fir muck. No it isn't. The rear caliper and bracket is in the direct line of fire from crud kicked up off the road by the front wheel.
People say that the muck sticks to the grease. This is true, but it also doeas a pretty good job of sticking to the polished surface without the grease being there. Its fine particles in the rainwater which then sets like concrete. But the rubber grease helps to protect the surface of the piston, and it is easy to clean off. The pistons MUST be cleaned of muck and grease before they are pushed in to accommodate the new pads.

Clean the slide pins, and clean out the muck and grease from the holes - 1 in the caliper, one in the bracket - check bith rubber boots.
Smear both caliper pins with red rubber grease or equivalent stuff suitable fir hydraulic seals. A thin visible coat.
Fit the two slider pins into the matching rubber boots. One pin is longer than the ither, which makes it easy to locate that one first. Check the pad spring is in place and is the right way round - wider strip nearest the pistons. Use the piece of wood and insert in frint of all 3 pistons. Twist it slightly to push in all 3 pistons by the couple of mm that you moved them out.
Check the chrome retaining clip is in place in the caliper (ridged one for the rear, flat for the front).

Wipe the grease off the rim of the piston, so that you do not get grease on the brake disk later.

Put the caliper bracket in place and gently slide the axle part way to support it.

Clean the stopper bolt. Boliing water will help remove the old thread lock. Clean the threads. Molypaste the smooth shaft of the bolt. Apply thread lock to the threads. Insert it into position and screw it in finger tight. Check that it is located properly through the elingated hole in the caliper bracket. You can see this through the rear wheel spokes from the right hand side, assuming you took the panniers off. The end of the bolt has a mark like a screwdriver slot in the end. You MUST see the end if the bolt properly located in that slightly oval shaped hole.

Push the axle in all of the way.

Grab a handful of caliper bracket. Push it in towards the wheel - careful, try not to push it so far that the pistons touch the brake disc. Let go. It should stay there. Pull it out as far as you can. It should move easily and freely with only a little effort. Let go. It should stay there. If you used too much grease on the slider pins, then it is possible that the movement will create too much air pressure or vaccuum and the caliper will move back. This will cause sime brake drag.

All Ok ?

TIGHTEN THE STOPPER BOLT. Its a hefty load 69Nm I think, but please always check for yourself.

Tighten the axle. Spin the wheel and clean up the brake disc with alcohol. Tighten the axle bolt. Even heftier - 108Nm - I think.
Clean the pad pin, nice and smooth and shiny and apply a smear of grease - molypaste would do or copper grease. Refit the pads. I use ceratec on the back of the pads. Manual doesn't call for anything.

Check the pads are properly located in the chrome retaining clip at the front of each bracket. Easy to see on the left with the exhaust out of the way. Look through the back wheel from the other side for the right.

These checks are important. You cannot see where the end of pad is going when you insert it, you can only feel. I have seen the inner pad on one bike where the forward end had dropped, and missed the clip completely. the end of the pad was resting on the hub. Eventually it would have worn through, slicing the left hand side of the hub away from the right.

Slow, methodical, check.

All of this is a lot of effort - but a lot easier if it is done when you have new tyres fitted. I remove my wheels and take them to the dealer and my brakes get done while the wheel is off. For me, this is every 5000 miles. And I often check partway through their life.

Dealers tend to take shotrcuts, liberties and little care - in my experience of having them do work. If I need them to do things as I dont have the skills or the tools, then I take the fairing off and ride it in naked - the bike, not me. The few times I have left the fairing on, it has never once been fitted properly. And these were Honda Dealers.
 
Last edited:
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AJ,
I was going to recommend you spoke to a friend of mine in Ruislip but I've just read reviews on their Honda Workshop, it's not good reading.
I think to get a quality result you'll end up doing it yourself. To pay a workshop will inevitably be expensive, or crap, or probably both. These bikes are old now and most mechanics will be young recruits who will never have seen the Pan before or older blokes who don't give a stuff.
With the likes of John to talk you through it and the fact you seem to know the difference between the blunt and sharp end of the screwdriver bodes well. It seems there's no rush as all is well for now.
Finish off the rear to your satisfaction then when time is plentiful tackle the rest. I would guess for a newby you would need to write off time for a weekend, read the hell out of the advice beforehand and get stuck in. Be warned old cold plastics don't like being messed with. Get some new fasteners first too, they're as cheap as chips on ebay.
Good luck.
Upt.
 
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AlbionJames
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
Age
33
Location
London
Bike
Honda ST1300 2008
It is normal for the pistons to look absolutely filthy. They get covered in crud kicked up from the road, and it can harden.
But they will normally clean up well to a shiny polished surface with a hint of bronze.

Post photos, it may help us to spot something.

Remove the pads - only pad pin removal is required for this, the pads will slide out easily if you rotate the back wheel backwards.

It is fiddly getting in there to clean the pistons, but much easier if you can take the caliper off the caliper bracket.

But it is possible to do it without, but you are working blind. A flat bootlace. soaked in brake fluid can be wrapped around each piston in turn and cleaned like drying your back with a towel. But it is difficult to see how effective this has been.

--------

You will see a hex headed bolt underneath the caliper. DO NOT REMOVE IT. This is one of the slider pins.

Instead you need to undo the much larger caliper bracket stopper bolt, and take the caliper and bracket off the axle. This means swinging both silencers down - the right one to take the axle out by a few inches, the right one to access the stopper bolt. It is a good idea to put the bike on the centrestand which is on a half inch piece of plywood. Ive had one st1300 where this was necessary to allow the right exhaust to swing down far enough to allow the axle to be pushed out partially. My current ST1300 does not need me to use the plywood. You may need help pulling the bike back to get it on the centre stand. Its much harder with the plywood.

The left silencer needs to swing down a bit to get the stopper bolt out. This has a large hex head 14mm I think, and the bolt is screwed into the top if the swing arm - the two brake hoses curve over the top of the casting where the bolt fits.

With axle pulled pulled out far enough , one end of the bracket is free to remove, with the stopper bolt removed, the other end is free as well. The bracket and caliper can be lifted over the brake disc and then separated. The bracket slides off the two slider pins - but be careful with the brake hoses - they should not be put under any strain.

The caliper can be turned upside down - the hoses are long enough to allow this. Find a piece of wood that will fit in the caliper in front of the pistons with a mm or two clear space. Gently press the brake pedal until all 3 pistons meet the piece of wood. Do not allow the wood to slip out - it is there to stop the pistons moving out too far. You are trying to move all 3 pistons out by just a mm or so. Take the wood out and do not touch the brake pedal again.

Now you can clean the pistons much more easily. Toothbrush and brake fluid, followed by flat bootlace and brake fluid. I keep the sewn hems from worn out cotton towels, teatowels, jeans - any old cotton stuff that gets discarded into the 'these will do for rags' bin in the garage.

Inspect the pistons for rough patches, corrosion or pitting, where the hardened shiny surface coating has started to lift or has come off. Even a small defect means that the piston needs to be replaced, as the piston seals will then not prevent fluid from getting out and braking will eventually fail.

I smear the exposed part if the nice shiny pistons with red rubber grease. This is specially made for hydraulic seals. Normal petroleum based grease causes the seals inside the caliper to swell cinsiderably and should not be used. Ive heard people say that this is a magnet fir muck. No it isn't. The rear caliper and bracket is in the direct line of fire from crud kicked up off the road by the front wheel.
People say that the muck sticks to the grease. This is true, but it also doeas a pretty good job of sticking to the polished surface without the grease being there. Its fine particles in the rainwater which then sets like concrete. But the rubber grease helps to protect the surface of the piston, and it is easy to clean off. The pistons MUST be cleaned of muck and grease before they are pushed in to accommodate the new pads.

Clean the slide pins, and clean out the muck and grease from the holes - 1 in the caliper, one in the bracket - check bith rubber boots.
Smear both caliper pins with red rubber grease or equivalent stuff suitable fir hydraulic seals. A thin visible coat.
Fit the two slider pins into the matching rubber boots. One pin is longer than the ither, which makes it easy to locate that one first. Check the pad spring is in place and is the right way round - wider strip nearest the pistons. Use the piece of wood and insert in frint of all 3 pistons. Twist it slightly to push in all 3 pistons by the couple of mm that you moved them out.
Check the chrome retaining clip is in place in the caliper (ridged one for the rear, flat for the front).

Wipe the grease off the rim of the piston, so that you do not get grease on the brake disk later.

Put the caliper bracket in place and gently slide the axle part way to support it.

Clean the stopper bolt. Boliing water will help remove the old thread lock. Clean the threads. Molypaste the smooth shaft of the bolt. Apply thread lock to the threads. Insert it into position and screw it in finger tight. Check that it is located properly through the elingated hole in the caliper bracket. You can see this through the rear wheel spokes from the right hand side, assuming you took the panniers off. The end of the bolt has a mark like a screwdriver slot in the end. You MUST see the end if the bolt properly located in that slightly oval shaped hole.

Push the axle in all of the way.

Grab a handful of caliper bracket. Push it in towards the wheel - careful, try not to push it so far that the pistons touch the brake disc. Let go. It should stay there. Pull it out as far as you can. It should move easily and freely with only a little effort. Let go. It should stay there. If you used too much grease on the slider pins, then it is possible that the movement will create too much air pressure or vaccuum and the caliper will move back. This will cause sime brake drag.

All Ok ?

TIGHTEN THE STOPPER BOLT. Its a hefty load 69Nm I think, but please always check for yourself.

Tighten the axle. Spin the wheel and clean up the brake disc with alcohol. Tighten the axle bolt. Even heftier - 108Nm - I think.
Clean the pad pin, nice and smooth and shiny and apply a smear of grease - molypaste would do or copper grease. Refit the pads. I use ceratec on the back of the pads. Manual doesn't call for anything.

Check the pads are properly located in the chrome retaining clip at the front of each bracket. Easy to see on the left with the exhaust out of the way. Look through the back wheel from the other side for the right.

These checks are important. You cannot see where the end of pad is going when you insert it, you can only feel. I have seen the inner pad on one bike where the forward end had dropped, and missed the clip completely. the end of the pad was resting on the hub. Eventually it would have worn through, slicing the left hand side of the hub away from the right.

Slow, methodical, check.

All of this is a lot of effort - but a lot easier if it is done when you have new tyres fitted. I remove my wheels and take them to the dealer and my brakes get done while the wheel is off. For me, this is every 5000 miles. And I often check partway through their life.

Dealers tend to take shotrcuts, liberties and little care - in my experience of having them do work. If I need them to do things as I dont have the skills or the tools, then I take the fairing off and ride it in naked - the bike, not me. The few times I have left the fairing on, it has never once been fitted properly. And these were Honda Dealers.
@jfheath Thanks so much for that detailed write up. Is much appreciated. I may well have to do it myself so I will try to follow your advice as best as possible. I will need to buy some of the specialist stuff but will be worth it.

I will post some pics asap but is so busy with work at the minute.

I will update once I have started the job.

Thanks again and take care.
 
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OP
AlbionJames
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
Age
33
Location
London
Bike
Honda ST1300 2008
AJ,
I was going to recommend you spoke to a friend of mine in Ruislip but I've just read reviews on their Honda Workshop, it's not good reading.
I think to get a quality result you'll end up doing it yourself. To pay a workshop will inevitably be expensive, or crap, or probably both. These bikes are old now and most mechanics will be young recruits who will never have seen the Pan before or older blokes who don't give a stuff.
With the likes of John to talk you through it and the fact you seem to know the difference between the blunt and sharp end of the screwdriver bodes well. It seems there's no rush as all is well for now.
Finish off the rear to your satisfaction then when time is plentiful tackle the rest. I would guess for a newby you would need to write off time for a weekend, read the hell out of the advice beforehand and get stuck in. Be warned old cold plastics don't like being messed with. Get some new fasteners first too, they're as cheap as chips on ebay.
Good luck.
Upt.
Thanks for the advice Upt. Yeah by the sounds of it, doing it myself is the only way to ensire its done properly. Only issue is lack of time due to work.

Look forward to getting stuck in with this but just a bit concerned incase I get anything wrong. Could end in tears if I fo but I will work slowly and be very careful.

Thanks for having a look :)
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,196
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
Did you change all the fluids when you got your bike a year ago? The SMC is sensitive to dirt or other debris in the brake fluid and the only fix is replacement. Not sure if you saw this thread (below) when you were searching for brake articles.

Flushing/Bleeding the brakes seems daunting, but if you take it one step at a time it is really pretty easy. If you do end up pulling the rear wheel to do the brakes make sure you have the appropriate Moly Paste (it is NOT Honda Moly 77). You can search for moly paste threads in the search function atop this page.
 
OP
OP
AlbionJames
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
12
Age
33
Location
London
Bike
Honda ST1300 2008
Did you change all the fluids when you got your bike a year ago? The SMC is sensitive to dirt or other debris in the brake fluid and the only fix is replacement. Not sure if you saw this thread (below) when you were searching for brake articles.

Flushing/Bleeding the brakes seems daunting, but if you take it one step at a time it is really pretty easy. If you do end up pulling the rear wheel to do the brakes make sure you have the appropriate Moly Paste (it is NOT Honda Moly 77). You can search for moly paste threads in the search function atop this page.
Hi

Thanks for the reply. I didnt get a notification for this one which is weird.

I done a standard service when I got it but not the brakes. Started looking into it and was a bit put off by the complexity. Its something that I believe I am capable to do but just wanted to get some miles on it. Fluid looked nice and fresh as well.

Thanks for the advise and intend on starting the job soon (as well as fuel pump replaxement).

Take care
 
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