ST1300PA vs ST1300A - Differences

[STeveDT]

Greetings Folks, I would like to "pick the collective brains" of the knowledgeable people on this board regarding an ST1300P that I found at a dealers today. I am really interested in the bike assuming that it can be had for a reasonable price. The dealer is asking $1000. more for a new 2006 ST1300PA than the Honda advertised sale price for a new 2007 ST1300A. What I would like to understand is what extra "stuff" is on the police model? I need this information so that I can place a value on it in order to be able to have an intelligent cost vs value discussion with the dealer. He has 2 police models there and I bet that he would like to see them gone.

I can see that it has different switch gear on the right hand bar. Are wires hooked up to these and do they just end in the loom or are they prewired to relays & fuses etc. Do any of the extra switches add extra (out of the box) functionality or are they just sitting waiting to be used as equipment is installed?

The bike has mounting posts extending up from the rear of the mirrors, presumably for mounting the flashing lights. Has anyone mounted PIAAs to these brackets? They sure look tough enough to do so. Beyond the questionable legality of having lights mounted so high is there any reason to not do so?

There is no back seat or rear pegs. Is it possible to remove the compartment and mount a seat there or are some of the underpinnings required for a seat missing? It appears that the pegs can be just purchased and bolted back on.

I believe that I read that the speedometer is more carefully calibrated on the P models. What other hidden changes have been made, if any?


Thanks

 

[dduelin]

I don't recall the specifics but the front springs are different as is the rear shock/spring. Suspension is stiffer and harsher to more safely handle the heavier loads and expected duty of a police bike. The P also comes with risers so the larger switch pods clear the gas tank. The wiring loom is different to accomodate radios and extra lighting.
The engine is governed to limit those bikes to 120 mph so in these endless "which color is faster" jives you are doomed to be the slowest in white.

 

[STeveDT]

Thanks dduelin, I noticed the bar risers but forgot to comment on them. Risers would likely have been one of the first things that I would have purchased so they add value as far as I am concerned. As for the springs... I am a big guy so they might be ok. I will have to do a comparison test to see.

 

[jdpfms]

One difference is police model is white, . Another difference is you can buy one in Canada but I don't know how to get one in USA????? Yes, they have the Heli plate. It may have a govenor limiting speed to 120mph (I know, whatever KPH it is there). I wouldn't pay $1000 more. You could get a stock bike and paint it white cheaper probably but not sure.

JDP

 

[Jefro]

Dual compound foam in the seat.
Stronger bolts and nuts at the swingarm joints.
Speedo in 2 mph increments instead of 5, and dead accurate.
Top speed limited to 120mph for liability reasons, special ECM module for Police units only.
Switchs on the right side are inactive but wired up.

 

[STeveDT]

One difference is police model is white, . Another difference is you can buy one in Canada but I don't know how to get one in USA????? Yes, they have the Heli plate. It may have a govenor limiting speed to 120mph (I know, whatever KPH it is there). I wouldn't pay $1000 more. You could get a stock bike and paint it white cheaper probably but not sure.

JDP

I am partial to the color. The police specials may have been off the market in the US for a while but I do know of 2 dealers that have leftover police specials, both within 100 miles of me.
I don't think that the governed speed will affect me significantly. :cop2:

Based on the information provided I don't intend to pay $1000 more for the bike. I am hoping to get it for the less than what the "07" model is advertised at.

Thanks for your input.

 

[STeveDT]

Dual compound foam in the seat.
Stronger bolts and nuts at the swingarm joints.
Speedo in 2 mph increments instead of 5, and dead accurate.
Top speed limited to 120mph for liability reasons, special ECM module for Police units only.
Switchs on the right side are inactive but wired up.

The seat felt ok but the only real test will be miles. I have never read of a swingarm bolt failure so stronger ones seem a little odd but I suppose that the logic was to offset the extra equipment weight before the problem happens. Any idea apart from the speed limiting what the other ECM changes are, if any? I don't know why I want to know but it would be interesting to note what they are. In Ontario if you get caught going more than 30 mph over the posted speed limit you are considered to be street racing and the penalities are onerous.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Motors]

The stock top box is a waste since you have to remove approx 8 bolts to access that small compartment. The rear light bar bracket is really ugly, but over-engineered (you could pull a car with it).

Although it is the slowest ST, you could attach a rear antenna and pretend it's just as fast with a "Motorola".

The dealer invoice is approx. $500 more for the P model.

Good luck on your purchase and thanks for slowing traffic in Canada.

Motors

 

[RibsST1300]

From what i heard, the seat mount system is different due to the cover in place of the rear seat, so you wuold have to buy new hardware there if you wanted a rear seat. calibrated speedo too.

 

[STeveDT]

Thanks Very Much For All Of The Input. I may take a pass on the bike. It will depend on what the dealer comes back with on pricing.

 

[WeeSTer]

The dealer is asking $1000. more for a new 2006 ST1300PA than the Honda advertised sale price for a new 2007 ST1300A.

Thats strange as I saw an 06PA model for $2K less than a 07A model at the bike show in Jan. The 06PA was $12,499 then.

 

[mediaboss]

I recently bought a 2006 ST1300PA in Ottawa, Ontario at Powersports Canada for 12,400$. With tax, plates, pdi, freight... it came up to 15,000$ CND. Since it was new, it came with a 3 year Honda warranty.

The main differences that I found between a regular ST1300 and the PA is as follows:

The positive:
- Steering riser
- Bigger alternator & radiator
- Different suspension to accomodate extra weight
- Pre-wiring throughout the bike, accessible via the handlebars

The not so positive:
- Seat can't be adjusted (the ST1300 allows 3 different positions)
- If you want to upgrade with a passanger seat, you'll need to purchase an add-on to the frame + seat which I was told was around 2000$ CND.
- There are reports of a 2004 ST1300PA Police Officer in England that died due to some "wobbling" when the officer was at +140mph. Some say it was due to the extra weight from police equipment in the back 'causing the instability but hell, I would never go at those crazy speeds... especially with the poor quality of roads we have here in Quebec!

Known issues for the 06 ST1300's that I've read on:
- Engine generates more heat then other bikes, which may be uncomfortable during hot sticky days.
- Police Officers have complained that the foot pegs apparently touch's the ground when doing stiff turns but after re-inspecting the bike at the store, the rubber part on the fairing will touch the ground WAY before the foot pegs will touch the ground and if the pegs are touching the ground, it's because you've dropped the bike.

In terms of re-sell value, according to my research, the ST1300's depreciates slowly. The new models always depreciates faster but stabilizes for the following years. For example, a 2006 ST1300A that I've found on various websites and in stores that are USED with mileages sell for an average around 13,000$. Not bad considering I got a new ST1300PA for 12,400$ WITH warranty.

Those are my findings but your thoughts, comments and/or opinions are definitively welcome! Thx.

 

[sam7]

There are many subtle differences between the bikes but one that may interest many is that you can remover the key from the saddlebags in the unlocked position. This lets you access the bags without the key which is important if you keep you paperwork in there for every traffic stop. Also, someone earlier said the seat couldn't be adjusted which is not correct. It can be but the rear box has to be removed to make the adjustment since there is no lever on the side handle to release the seat. I hope this helps your decision.

 

[CrashTestDanny]

Police Officers have complained that the foot pegs apparently touch's the ground when doing stiff turns but after re-inspecting the bike at the store, the rubber part on the fairing will touch the ground WAY before the foot pegs will touch the ground and if the pegs are touching the ground, it's because you've dropped the bike.

I've had both pegs on the ground (no, not at the same time) on my ST without dropping it. I believe this only happens if you don't have the pre-load stiff enough... Since I started riding with a higher pre-load, I've not been able to touch the pegs even though I've completely scrubbed off my chicken strips.

 

[sam7]

The pegs on all our bikes are ground down but the tupperware is fine. This comes from slow speed turns while leaning the bike to minimize turning radiius. I've personally ground down pegs and the outside portion of the sole of my boot because all of it won't fit on the peg. These bikes will lean more than most folks would believe.

 

[chiller]

which dealers and where? since i'm about 45 mins west of you .. I've always loved the white P models ...

 

[mediaboss]

which dealers and where? since i'm about 45 mins west of you .. I've always loved the white P models ...

PowerSports Canada in Ottawa. They sold like hot pancakes... and said they may be able to get another one. They have a website if you want more info on them (google it). I've been dealing with Chris (salesman) and Gregg (sales director or something). Chris initially told me they sold out but when talking to Gregg afterwards, he made one magically appear so if anything, I'd try to talk to him first.

Try to negociate for a better price. I'm usually a very good negotiator but these guys wouldn't budge. If you find any similar or better deals, please do share! I'm always curious to see if I could of gotten better elsewhere. Thx!

 

[mediaboss]

There are many subtle differences between the bikes but one that may interest many is that you can remover the key from the saddlebags in the unlocked position. This lets you access the bags without the key which is important if you keep you paperwork in there for every traffic stop. Also, someone earlier said the seat couldn't be adjusted which is not correct. It can be but the rear box has to be removed to make the adjustment since there is no lever on the side handle to release the seat. I hope this helps your decision.

Exactly. Unless you remove the rear box, apparently you can't adjust the seat. That's what the dealer said anyways. I'm picking mine up this Friday and will see what I can do.

I hear the stock seat is stiff though. Have you guys been able to upgrade the single seat? I was thinking of a Corbin but they dont make an individual seat for the ST1300's. Again, that's what the deal told me.

 

[motor2191]

"...police specials may have been off the market in the US for a while..." Where did you hear that from? We just bought some 09's a few weeks ago. As far as anything REALLY different, it's not much. Speedometer in 2 mph, switches on the right control, brackets for lights, wiring for lights/siren, top box, no passengers pegs, the springs are fixed rate as opposed to variable rates, valving is the same, it's governed at 124 mph. Oh, and the bags can be left in the "unlocked" position. Other than those things, not much else...Put a headlight modulator on it and watch traffic part like the sea for Moses...LOL! As far as price, they cost $14k so you've got some room to negotiate...

 

[mediaboss]

After searching the web extensively for bad reviews on the ST-1300's, I finally found a site which outlines some of the main complaints from ST owners:
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269929&highlight=improve+st1300

Heat keeps coming up over and over again. Just out of curiosity, is it that much of an issue? And if so, what do you do to deal with it?

Thx