Ralph,
The fuel filter looks to me like one of the cleanable ones, am I right?
Mark
The fuel filter looks to me like one of the cleanable ones, am I right?
Mark
Stumble and die... Get running again then stumble backfire and die
- Thread starter IpswichST
- Start date
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
If you side stand switch is faulty - could cause your engine to stop. Make sure the switch isn't bad. Also check your clutch interlock switch. Have seen both of these cause some real confusion troubleshooting problems such as yours.
Dan
Dan
Last edited:
Yes, Wal Mart sells the inner filter cage. I've never opened up the filter on the ST (50K + miles) and only cleaned the boat's filter 1 or 2 times in 25 years. I have changed all fuel lines more than once.
OP
OP
So... maybe these switches have gremlins that are causing me to stall? Can I maybe do a simple continuity test on them? Like I did with my front brake switch?
I let the bike sit last night and did some other chores around the yard. I started it up and let it idle. I decided to take a short ride and before I could go 2 feet it stumbled. I dont know if it is starved of fuel or flooding. I can recover by letting it idle (poorly). Did I mention that it kinda backfires?
Im gonna pull the plugs... see what they look like. Trying to keep it simple... not make any drastic moves.
OP
OP
Today I took the plastic off again... pulled the air filter and 3 plugs (both front plugs and the right rear plug). The pic is the right front plug... Looks to me to have some oil on it? Why would there be oil?
What do people think about that? Should I do a compression test?
Have to admit.. I like to tinker but I dont like to go toooo deep I just dont have the place... not garage.
What do people think about that? Should I do a compression test?
Have to admit.. I like to tinker but I dont like to go toooo deep I just dont have the place... not garage.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
Oil can be pretty common there as it can seep out of the valve cover gasket into the plug hole area. Not to much to worry about though you may want to put in a new gasket.
If I were you I would put the bike on the center stand, start the engine and pull the clutch in and put it in gear. Let the clutch out slowly and see if the engine dies. Also you can try the side stand up and down and see what it acts like. The sidestand switch can be jumped out (don't ask me how I know this) to see if the problem persists. The clutch switch is easily checked with an ohm meter. If everything is okay you can start looking at the fuel pump again. It just sounds strange to me that the engine starts and sounds okay and when you start off it dies. Sounds like it could be electrical.
Dan
If I were you I would put the bike on the center stand, start the engine and pull the clutch in and put it in gear. Let the clutch out slowly and see if the engine dies. Also you can try the side stand up and down and see what it acts like. The sidestand switch can be jumped out (don't ask me how I know this) to see if the problem persists. The clutch switch is easily checked with an ohm meter. If everything is okay you can start looking at the fuel pump again. It just sounds strange to me that the engine starts and sounds okay and when you start off it dies. Sounds like it could be electrical.
Dan
OP
OP
I know that with the side stand down if input it in gear the engine will cut off. But that's normal, right?
With the bike on the center stand when input it into gear it does not stall.
Ill look into Thais 2 switches tomorrow.
With the bike on the center stand when input it into gear it does not stall.
Ill look into Thais 2 switches tomorrow.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
What I am thinking is that when you have the clutch in the bike will run being that the clutch switch is made, but the side stand switch may be bad and when you let the clutch out the bad switch in the side stand causes the engine to die.
OP
OP
Dan...
I can start the bike and it will idle. On the stand I can put it in gear and it will run. Today I rode to the end of my street to a dead end (1 mile each way) and I made it there and back. BUT... not without some stumbling. Its like it either isnt getting gas or it's getting too much. With some throttle work (feathering or Wide Open Throttle) it will SURGE back and be ok for just a little. Ill definitely look at those switches (will have to locate them first!).
Im so bummed because this is the first bike Ive owned in like 30 years. I was having a blast getting back into riding... and now I am hung up with a problem. DANG!
I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and help. Thanks!
I can start the bike and it will idle. On the stand I can put it in gear and it will run. Today I rode to the end of my street to a dead end (1 mile each way) and I made it there and back. BUT... not without some stumbling. Its like it either isnt getting gas or it's getting too much. With some throttle work (feathering or Wide Open Throttle) it will SURGE back and be ok for just a little. Ill definitely look at those switches (will have to locate them first!).
Im so bummed because this is the first bike Ive owned in like 30 years. I was having a blast getting back into riding... and now I am hung up with a problem. DANG!
I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and help. Thanks!
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
Your description is beginning to sound less like the side stand switch. I suspect the fuel pump. One way to check if it is a fuel starvation problem is to give it some choke when it begin to stumble. If you get some power back right away you will know for sure it is a fuel issue. Don't get frustrated, you have a good bike there and it will get fixed and we'll get you on the road again.
If giving it some choke lets the engine come back to life I would pull the fuel line loose and get a container and turn on the ignition and see if the pump is delivering fuel. A pretty simple test. I don't know if we have any technical ST-Owners out your way that maybe could give you a hand.
Dan
If giving it some choke lets the engine come back to life I would pull the fuel line loose and get a container and turn on the ignition and see if the pump is delivering fuel. A pretty simple test. I don't know if we have any technical ST-Owners out your way that maybe could give you a hand.
Dan
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
I see that Mountain Mike lives in Bellingham, Ma - He is a longtime St1100 owner I believe. You might try and send him a private message and see if he could give you a hand.
Dan
Dan
Check the fuel pump through put... it is easy to get to and all you need is a bucket, then you can measure the fuel pump output by time...
OP
OP
I pulled the fuel line away from the filter and did turn on the bike to see if it cycles/ primes... It does. It's just a squirt, not that powerful like it maybe squirts an ounce. I'm wondering if its my pump now.
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The pump only operates a couple seconds when first turned on, the bike has to be running (or the pump jumped from a steady 12V) to get a real test. The bike will idle for a couple minutes with fuel from the float bowls so easy enuff to test vollume at the pump hose.
CAUTION! Yur working with gasoline in an open environment. I suggest moving the bike away from anything flammable (like yur garage and yur skin!) Put the hose into to a clear, closed container like a pop bottle and only run it long enuff to get a good measure.
Common for these pumps to fail over time, I've been thru the process more times than I care to count. Currently running (on STick) an after market pump since none of my spare OEM pumps will do the job. Interesting to note, STick's original pump is in lipSTick with nearly 250,000 miles and still works great. Go figure.
Keep us poSTed. OBTW, I'm gonna install an aftermarket Fuel Pressure Regulator in STick today, She's been getting lousy mileage this trip and I'm thinking it's over pressure from the aftermarket pump.
Someone please post Honda's recommended flow rate for the fuel pump on this thread, I don't have my shop manual with me. We can both use that info. TNX.
CAUTION! Yur working with gasoline in an open environment. I suggest moving the bike away from anything flammable (like yur garage and yur skin!) Put the hose into to a clear, closed container like a pop bottle and only run it long enuff to get a good measure.
Common for these pumps to fail over time, I've been thru the process more times than I care to count. Currently running (on STick) an after market pump since none of my spare OEM pumps will do the job. Interesting to note, STick's original pump is in lipSTick with nearly 250,000 miles and still works great. Go figure.
Keep us poSTed. OBTW, I'm gonna install an aftermarket Fuel Pressure Regulator in STick today, She's been getting lousy mileage this trip and I'm thinking it's over pressure from the aftermarket pump.
Someone please post Honda's recommended flow rate for the fuel pump on this thread, I don't have my shop manual with me. We can both use that info. TNX.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
Hey George and others - I have been running the Facet 40178 pump now for about 6K miles with no issues at all. It is a 2-3.5 psi with a check valve to prevent back flow. No mileage difference at all from stock pump. I removed the in-tank pump and plugged the hole in the pickup screen. mounted the pump where the vacuum shutoff valve used to live. So far so good.
OP
OP
Ok... If I pull the pump and run it into a jar how do I measure the volume? How long should I run it? I have to say, I hope it's the pump so I know definitively what the problem is.
OP
OP
It's very curious. I had to take a break from my bike to dispose if my old boat at a local dump as we'll as get my daughters car running. So around 3pm I decided to start her up and test the suggestion about choking the bike when it started to stumble. It ran fine. I only went 2 miles. Makes me wonder... Could it be the coil? Could the coil fail intermittently?Something electrical? Sheesh, I don't want to open up a can of worms. I think I'd like to just focus on the fuel pump for now.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
Sometimes when these fuel pumps go bad they are intermittent. They will work for a while and then stop. One thing you should also check s the fuel tank vent system. If the bike begins stuttering again simply loosen the fuel cap and see if that helps. This problem can also come from a plugged evaporation cannister. If the vent is plugged the engine will run until a vacuum bulds up in the tank and then starts to starve.
Dan
Dan
OP
OP
Nice! That's something I can do!
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
I just looked up the fuel pump specs. The pump output should be 640 cc ( .676 qt) per minute.