Timing Belt Change / what hoses to change ?

[Kairo]

Hi.

I am on my way to change the timing belt on my St1100 '94. I am going to order some parts from David Silver, England.
On my basket, i have put :
- Timing belt
- Cambelt idler
- Cambelt tensioner
- New spring to tensioner.

I also want to change some water-hoses when my radiator is away.
I want to change upper and lower radiator hoses.
Is there any else hoses i should change at the same time ? - oil cooler hoses ?

I am only thinking of hoses that need the radiator to be removed. -I know there is some hoses under the carbs, on the thermostat etc. , but that will be later.....


Thanks
Kai Roger Gjerde
Norway

 

[Mark]

The upper and lower are probably all that are easy to get to with the radiator removed.

You do not have an oil cooler on a '94.

 

[maximark]

Hi.

I am on my way to change the timing belt on my St1100 '94. I am going to order some parts from David Silver, England.
On my basket, i have put :
- Timing belt
- Cambelt idler
- Cambelt tensioner
- New spring to tensioner.

I also want to change some water-hoses when my radiator is away.
I want to change upper and lower radiator hoses.
Is there any else hoses i should change at the same time ? - oil cooler hoses ?

I am only thinking of hoses that need the radiator to be removed. -I know there is some hoses under the carbs, on the thermostat etc. , but that will be later.....


Thanks
Kai Roger Gjerde
Norway

That reminds me, I've ordered the belt and all the gaskets but forgot to order tensioner and its spring.
Thanks for reminder...
I'm changing all the radiator and thermostat hoses and clamps, thermostat and it was suggested to me that while I'm at it, I should change carbs insulators. So that's on my list to order next.

 

[ST1100Y]

You do not have an oil cooler on a '94.

Err... I think he does, the changeover to the air-cooled 40A alternator was '95~'96...
You could insert your VIN to find the correct fiche and P/Ns here: http://www.cmsnl.com/honda_model8286/

On a '94 I'd also consider a new w/pump...
Radiator cap (gasket cracked, spring weak)
Overflow hose
Coolant thermostat/O-ring
The white plastic radiator drain + gasket
The two hoses going to the oil-cooler
Maybe a fan-stat + O-ring
Check fan motor bearings, propeller mounting and if the ground wire hasn't corroded

 

[DeanR]

You guys might find that you don't need the tensioner and idler.

Mark, I think the 94 does have the oil cooler with the two hoses.

 

[Kairo]

Hi.

I am pretty sure i have an oil cooler on my '94. -If i do have, is it the time to change them when the radiator is away ?

- Can you change the thermostat hoses witout removing the radiator ?

Maximark, What gaskets have you ordered ?

Kai

 

[Mark]

Err... I think he does, the changeover to the air-cooled 40A alternator was '95~'96...

Mark, I think the 94 does have the oil cooler with the two hoses.

I should not type after working all night...

 

[maximark]

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1994/ST1100+A/FRONT+COVER/parts.html
all cover gaskets here, 3,5,6,8,10 and also O-ring for thermostat. I'm not planning on taking down camshaft covers so I left out those #22,13,26.
actually, DeanR is right, we don't need to change tensioner and idler but I wanna change tensioner spring.

mark.

 

[Kairo]

Hi.

Thank you all very much for replies.
Is it overkill to change tensioner and idler ? Thinking about the bearings -They both have a small diameter, so the rpm. get pretty high. ?

Kai

 

[nhdiesel]

The pulleys are a tossup. If you have the money for them, its good peace of mind, and will ensure the least downtime vs. having to order them if you find you need them. When I helped do an 1100 with roughly 65k miles, I fould a slight bit of play in the bearings. They could have gone much further, but I felt better suggesting they be replaced, and the owner agreed. I have a much harder time spending someone else's money than my own, so I wouldn't have suggested it if I didn't think it was worth doing.

There is also a trick to getting the plastic timing cover off and back on. There is a point where the plastic cover barely tucks behind another piece. You can carefully work the cover out using a couple small screwdrivers, then trim the cover slightly so it goes back on easier. Much better than having to pull the other cover, requiring new gaskets.

 

[DeanR]

If doing the 'cover trick', and skipping the pulleys and water pump, is there anything other than the belt itself to order?

 

[ST1100Y]

The pulleys are a tossup. If you have the money for them, its good peace of mind, and will ensure the least downtime vs. having to order them if you find you need them.

Better to be be safe then sorry... (see water pump)
On the '94 with 121K miles I had refurbed, I noticed a noise in the valve train; they had replaced the T/belt and spanner pulley at 94K miles, but apparently left the old idler... it had +1mm clearance and screamed like a coffee grinder in there...
(I also once got a car back from the workshop after a T/belt replacement (small 1050cc SOC Fiat) showing an awfull noise... tensioner had already lost 2 balls and was wiggling badly... stopped the car where it was, jumped in a cab, got a new spanner, went back and replaced it right there out on the road...)

There is also a trick to getting the plastic timing cover off and back on.

Yep, clutch cover stays on, no need to touch that! Just pry/pull the large center cover over the crank bolt; once its out nibble that 3x5mm edge/bar off the inside.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

If doing the 'cover trick', and skipping the pulleys and water pump, is there anything other than the belt itself to order?

Short answer: no. BTDT

Regards, John

 

[Kairo]

Hi.

I have now removed everything plastic etc, and is ready to change the timing belt, pulley idler and sping / tensioner. -The order from Partzilla is on the way, so i hope it is heere soon.
Bought the bike 2 years ago, and had no control of when the last timing belt was changed. The bike was imported from germany by the earlier owner, and he did not know either.

When looking on the timing belt, it have an OEM-number on, and a number " 09 " vertical on the belt . I suppose thar means 2009 ?
A little bit strange i think, because it was not 100% clean inside. A bit dust that must be cleaned.
I will change it anyway, since i have ordered a new, and the hard part already is done.

I have done the the "dremel modification", and have removed the long lower rubber. Cleaned it and put som acid free vaseline on it. -Also did some touch up painting on the radiator. -And of course checked and retighted + new loctite on the fan-nut.

My question : Reading the original service manual it say use locking agent on the timing belt idler. -That is ok.
But it also say use locking agent on "timing belt tensioner spring hook bolt threads" -This bolt i suppose i will tighten and loosen a couple of times when changing the belt. Any comments about this ?

Kairo

 

[ST1100Y]

This bolt i suppose i will tighten and loosen a couple of times when changing the belt.

Normally you'd only deal with that bolt twice: first releasing the spanner pulley, recheck that all pulleys are still on their marks; second when torqueing that bolt to rated value once its found that all marks are correct.
First remove all 4 spark plugs, 2nd remove the guide disc on the LHS cam sided pulley (so you can see the indications on it, next take a 17mm ratchet, stick the socket on the crank sided bolt and rotate the engine (ratchet set clockwise!) till the markers align with the case: T1-mark on crank pulley with the triangle on the engine case, the line/embossed marks of both cam pulleys aligned with the small nose in the cam housing, the lines of the RHS cams pointing outward and are flush with the head surface and the punch marks on both LHS cams pointing outward and are also flush with the head surface. Only once those alignments are clearly given loosen the bolt of the tensioner pulley, push it down and fixate it there again. Now you can carefully pull the belt out, bit by bit starting at the cam and idler pulleys. Once its off/out you can check w/pump-, idler- and spanner pulley- bearings for any clearance or roughness when spinning/wiggling by hand. Replace if it doubts... The ST1100 engine is an 'interference type', so failure in valve timing will result in destructive engine failure... Installing new belt by putting it on the crank pulley first, w/pump, idler, LHS and finally RHS cam pulley; once its fully applied, check above markings again while tensioning it with your thumb where the spanner pulley would (most likely its one notch off on one of the cam pulleys ); if its OK, loosen the bolt of tensioner pulley and let the spring snap the bracket up, its tension is all that's needed; check markings again, if OK, tighten bolt to <flipping pages...> 40Nm, marks still aligned? To be sure take your 17mm ratchet again and turn the engine through for 360 deg till all above marks meet again. All OK? Perfect! Put the guide disk on LHS cam pulley back on (IIRC 27Nm), reassemble motorcycle in reverse order and GO RIDE! :-D And since the thread lock from Honda is some kind of wax, I only replenish it with Loctite medium if I had a bolt removed completely, which drives this wax out the threads; when only loosen/torque again, it'll still in there and serve perfectly.

 

[Slasher]

Hi.

I have now removed everything plastic etc, and is ready to change the timing belt, pulley idler and sping / tensioner. -The order from Partzilla is on the way, so i hope it is heere soon.
Bought the bike 2 years ago, and had no control of when the last timing belt was changed. The bike was imported from germany by the earlier owner, and he did not know either.

When looking on the timing belt, it have an OEM-number on, and a number " 09 " vertical on the belt . I suppose thar means 2009 ?
A little bit strange i think, because it was not 100% clean inside. A bit dust that must be cleaned.
I will change it anyway, since i have ordered a new, and the hard part already is done.

I have done the the "dremel modification", and have removed the long lower rubber. Cleaned it and put som acid free vaseline on it. -Also did some touch up painting on the radiator. -And of course checked and retighted + new loctite on the fan-nut.

My question : Reading the original service manual it say use locking agent on the timing belt idler. -That is ok.
But it also say use locking agent on "timing belt tensioner spring hook bolt threads" -This bolt i suppose i will tighten and loosen a couple of times when changing the belt. Any comments about this ?

Kairo

I didn't use any Loctite on the tensioner. I recommend reading the procedure on the timing belt change paying special attention to the tensioner. I had to re do mine because when it was all done the first time I felt there was too much play in the belt. The tensioner had slipped out of its groove making it useless! I redid everything by the book and it worked perfectly. Also, TAKE THE SPARK PLUGS OUT! I got lazy and left mine in and it made the job a royal pain in the butt because the compression on the motor kept rotating the cams out of time! I didn't change any other things in there. I did inspect all the pulleys and water pump. My engine only had 37,000 miles though. I put my old belt on the shelf for emergencies because it still looked new. I used a Gates timing belt.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

I'm away from home and my archives/pics, but here's a tip:

Before you remove the old belt, count the number of teeth between the marks on the two driven cam pulleys. Then, when you install the new belt, duplicate that as you string it from the left to the right pully. Fix the left pully so the cam alignment isn't disturbed as you do this. When you finish and release the tensioner, all the timing and cam marks will be correct. My ST had 51 teeth BETWEEN the marks on the driven pulleys. HTH

John

 

[PLUMMAN]

When you are removing the water pump assembly, how do you get the assembly out? Mine is hitting the frame on the bottom and won't lever out at the top.
Looks like removing the left cam pulley and housing maybe? Mine is a 94 model. Thanks in advance!!

 

[Slasher]

There are some articles on here about it. IIRC you do have to pull the left cam pulley to get the pump out. I'm pretty sure it will come out after that