Tip over damage

[Harpo]

I have a set of tip-over bars I bought from Big Dog here in the forum installed on my '07. My bike got nudged in a parking lot on the rear corner of the left pannier and toppled over to the right. The tip-over bar protected the right side pannier from any damage and the right side tip-over "wing" protected the right bodywork. Damage sustained was on the right mirror/turn signal assembly which was pushed inward and forward, impacting and marring the front fairing glacis which runs along in front beneath the windshield. The bike was setting at a 45 degree angle, resting on the tip-over bar and wing. Damage was purely cosmetic. The driver remained on scene and her insurance will cover all the damage. She's old school and has some good morals because a lot of Gen-X'ers would have just taken off. This occurred at City Hall, and the presence of all those police cruisers may have also had some influence on her decision to do the right thing.

Actually, it's a blessing since that front fairing glacis has become quite pitted from road debris ... and that will probably be the worse damage. The tip-over wing cover is also marred. The left pannier was undamaged from the contact with her pickup bumper ... she was reversing into the slot adjacent to my bike very slowly and just kind of worked the bike over to the vertical and then completely over. Finally, I will need to get that right tip-over bar powder-coated where it hit the asphalt ... and it also appears to have bent upward perhaps a half inch from the horizontal. I'll PM Big Dog and see if I can just get a replacement bar and bill her insurance for it.

Some items:

1. The local stealer (Velocity Motorsports, Ladson, SC) has an ironclad service contract which holds them completely free from responsibility for any damage to, or loss of, my motorcycle while they have it for service ... which could be weeks. Needless to say, they will NOT be installing the replacement components when they arrive ... nor will they EVER do any work on it unless the bike needs to have the engine out or something drastic like that. I will specify to the insurance appraiser that they pay only for replacement parts delivered to me. That will save them money, too.

2. I still have full coverage with uninsured motorist protection with $200 deductible, so even if she'd hightailed it, I'd be in pretty good shape.

3. We were able to easily get an officer to walk out and do a full accident investigation and FR-10 form and I made sure it had no errors in it. That's what the insurance companies base a lot on in determining fault. The officer cited her for causing the accident and held me as the innocent party. My bike was legally and properly parked.

4. The local stealer also will not do a damage estimate for free; they want $98 for that ... and the bums won't even take photos of the damage! So I contacted the lady's insurance company (USAA) and arranged for an appraiser to come to my residence and do the appraisal there for free. Apparently Honda dealers are all charging for damage estimates in Charleston ... mercenary pimps that they are! If you ever put your bike into the shop, sit down and read that service contract's fine print before you make the decision.

So, hopefully I've given you guys some info on what could happen if your bike gets hit while you're not there. The uninsured motorist coverage usually has a smaller deductible than the collision coverage. Good to know.



Cheers!

 

[970mike]

Wow that stinks your bike got damaged but the lady did stick around. Now don't pay that Stealer for an estimate. You can get a price on all of the replacement parts and do the job yourself. Good luck with the repairs.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

USAA is one of the best insurers in the country. They should do right by you.

John [USAA member for 48 years]
via iPhone 6

 

[Harpo]

For all the good they are, I wouldn't mind seeing motorcycle dealerships disappear altogether and revert to an online purchase solution with pickup/warranty stations where you go pick up your bike after buying it online as well as for repairing warranty issues. I can't remember the last dealer that was worth a crap. They won't let you test-ride the bikes anymore; you're supposed to buy a bike untested nowadays. That Velocity dealer has loads of retail crap inside with NO PRICES on any of it. You have to go get somebody to look up the prices. Not hard to guess why ... vastly overpriced.

They ignore you when you walk in, too .... closed on Sunday .... and from the horror stories I've heard about their mechanics who do half-assed work, I would hate to be a rider who doesn't know how to work on my own bike. Fortunately, I do all my own work, I have a proper lift table and scads of tools, and a no-mar tire changer. It like when you walk into Velocity, they size you up by the way you're dressed and decide whether or not you're a good mark for a quick sale. They definitely leave me alone. There's another dealer in town, Champion Honda, and they also charge for damage estimates. Pimps.

 

[Bush]

I can see why dealers are making charges for such services nowadays, because they are grasping for whatever dollars they can get to stay in business. In the old, pre-internet, days, the only competition was the dealer down the street and they made most of their money on selling parts and servicing bikes, with little profit in actual bike sales. The profit in bike sales hasn't increased for them, as the manufacturers can't afford to price themselves out of the market, so where is the dealer supposed to turn enough profit to survive?

Big box retailers are suffering the same fate, with more and more people buying goods online, since the prices offered by a company that doesn't need to offer personal customer service in a fancy storefront are always going to be cheaper. The bike dealer knows that many are going to get their repair estimate from them, take that to the insurance company and then order parts from a cheaper source and either do it themselves, or have some small, one man bike repair shop do the work at a reduced labour rate. It's a no win game for a dealer, so they make a few bucks on the estimate at least.

This change in the buying environment is great for the DIYer, but bad news for the guy that simply wants to ride and have someone else look after his machine.

 

[Harpo]

To charge $98 for a damage estimate and not even have a digital camera on hand to document that damage for the customer ... that's savings? Digital cameras are cheap ...

... no, I think it's selfishness and a desire to make money as many ways as they possibly can while working as little as possible. For a hundred, I sure as hell would do photos for the customer, since he needs those to pass on to his insurance company. The insurance company wants the dealer's photos, not the customers.

Then the issue of worming one's way out of liability for damaging a bike ... or having it stolen while in custody of it? Well, yeah ... that would surely be a wise financial move ... but also an immoral one. It's fine print, which is designed to escape notice. The service ape shoves the paper over to you and nonchalantly says "here, sign this; it says we can work on it". It's shifty moves like that which literally drive people away from those dealers in the first place.

No sympathy for dealers and their money grubbing here; sorry. I've seen the cars in the dealer's employee's parking lot ... Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW SUVs ... that says it all, Bubba.

 

[Harpo]

View attachment 165235

 

[SMSW]

I may be the only guy out here who has not had all my interactions with dealers end up a disaster. And, if they do a good job, I think they are worth what they charge. There are good dealers out there, just like there are good doctors, good teachers, good plumbers, etc. The converse is also true. I've certainly discovered enough independent garages who have taken advantage of me (on my cars) over the years (as well as doctors, teachers, plumbers, etc.).

If a dealer, like a body shop, does a good job of documenting the damage, you might get a nice check from the insurance company. This takes time, and they should be paid for preparing the estimate. As a self employed electrician, I've been asked many times for estimates. This can take quite a bit of time on larger jobs. And if the (prospective) customer is simply fishing for numbers that is a waste of my time.

Should the insurance company cut you a check based on the dealer's estimate, and you do the work yourself, you might be paid well for the labor of installing all those parts. True, some insurers will only send the check to the dealer, but not all.

And, here in Ohio, it is my understanding that uninsured motorist coverage is ONLY for medical payments - after all other insurance is used up. This means that property damage (your bike or car) is the responsibility of the person who caused the damage. If they don't have insurance, or sufficient insurance, you are out of luck.

 

[ST Gui]

. This takes time, and they should be paid for preparing the estimate.

+1 I've never had a problem dealing with a dealer in the decades I've been riding. Not all interactions were stellar but I've had no cause to swear one off or even swear at one.

Two or three people I know who've been in the position to have their damaged bikes repaired by a dealer had the estimate fees waived when they had the bike repaired. Obviously their labor and parts prices could absorb the man-hours needed to do a thorough estimate.

If a dealer has abnormally high prices for P&L and doesn't choose to comp the estimate fee when you have work done then I'd pass. It costs money just to turn on the lights. Every real job I ever had paid me a premium for working on Sundays. I don't know how much any given shop makes or loses by being open on a Sunday but I bet with good weather a lot of them hear crickets.

If you're in the position to do all your own work good on ya. Not everybody is.

 

[st11ray]

My buddy had his Road King knocked over while it was being serviced at the HD dealer. $2,200 in damage. The owner told him they, the dealer, were not responsible for any damages per their service agreement. My buddy called the police and had them file a report. He did not take the bike from the dealer. His insurance company sued the dealer and won.

 

[Harpo]

That's precisely what I'm posting about ... leaving your baby in a shop which does not value it and which is interested only in the almighty dollar. They write an ironclad service contract which attempts to immunize them from any liability because they know most people wouldn't fight them in court. I've seen mechanics take an ice cold motorcycle they've just worked on and test ride it right out the door at 8,000RPM. I've seen them put tools on top of a bike's gas tank for convenience in the shop ... and I've seen an oil drain fall out of my brother's bike because it hadn't been tightened. Had his rear tire not slipped on the oil spilling out of his engine, he wouldn't have found out and would have munched that engine.

Stealers ride their mechanics hard to get them to do so many bikes before lunchtime ... and so many bikes before quitting time. The focus is rarely about quality of work because that d@mned service contract will usually absolve them of any responsibility for damage or loss. You'll pay for it too because they have that service lien on your bike and your ignition key as soon as you sign that paper. "Beau, git 'er done and git that next one started ... this ain't a storage facility."

I've been dealing with motorcycle dealers for 44 years now and I don't trust a single one of them to take care of my babies. Their business rarely suffers simply because there aren't that many motorcycle dealers in town and the young kids don't care about the dealer's reputation. They just want to buy that bike and ride it! If it wasn't for the young adolescents buying bikes, the dealers would have to do better and keep their customers happy.

 

[SupraSabre]

When I was knocked off my '05 back in 2008, the stealer mechanic that did my estimate did a very shoddy job at best. And changing out the parts was a joke! He left the heat shield off the left muffler, didn't bother putting the rubber bumpers on the right saddlebag, I had to force him to check the forks...which turned out to be bent! 4: (Thank goodness I was able to get most of the broken parts) And BTW, all told, $8,400 in parts and labor!

After that little episode, i started doing all my own work except for certain warranty work. I even replaced my own waterpump that should have been covered!

Then there was the ABS issue I had on the 2010, still under warranty... they wanted me to buy a new ABS computer (@$1,100) to see if that would fix the problem, and only then would they look at the bad unit and determine if they were going to cover it! I picked up a used one off ebay for around $250 (with only 409 miles on it) and it fixed my ABS issue!

I order most of my parts from partzilla. Orders over $200 ( I think that's what it is) is free shipping and no taxes!

 

[Harpo]

Honda should put out undercover agents who catch this crap and report back to them. I get the feeling that Honda really doesn't care, though. They build a super good motorcycle, but I also think they'd rather have you buy a new bike every four years or so rather than help you make yours last with good maintenance and repair.

Honestly, it seems that Harley dealers take better care of their customers these days.

 

[dduelin]

There are lots of ways to take money from people unethically. Why focus on a few dealers and beat up on them? Most of us work for a living to allow us to buy our toys. What business are you in? Is it unblemished..... a beacon of truth, light, and the American Way? Or does it have it's share of the ethically challenged?

 

[SupraSabre]

There are lots of ways to take money from people unethically. Why focus on a few dealers and beat up on them? Most of us work for a living to allow us to buy our toys. What business are you in? Is it unblemished..... a beacon of truth, light, and the American Way? Or does it have it's share of the ethically challenged?

I'm in the Medical device business, we can't afford to create blemished products, it costs us too much to recall them! Do bad parts/software go out, yes, but we jump on it right away. If auto and motorcycle dealerships had to go by the same standards (as I'm sure Aircraft companies must do) then we wouldn't have these type of issues!

 

[dduelin]

I'm in the Medical device business, we can't afford to create blemished products, it costs us too much to recall them! Do bad parts/software go out, yes, but we jump on it right away. If auto and motorcycle dealerships had to go by the same standards (as I'm sure Aircraft companies must do) then we wouldn't have these type of issues!

Oh please Bob. Ever heard of Bjork Shiley, Medtronic, or Accufix? It's rhetorical, all have manufactured faulty medical devices and were found in a 30 second search. My wife got a set of Shiley pacemaker leads in 1984 that failed and changed her life forever. Or BAC, Convair, Boeing, Lockheed,or McDonnell Douglas?

My point was anybody can rant about their local motorcycle shop or car dealer ripping off the public but rarely do we know what business they are in and plenty of unethical people are in every line of work. With human nature being what it is, I wonder the most about those complain about it the most.

 

[Landon]

To charge $98 for a damage estimate and not even have a digital camera on hand to document that damage for the customer ... that's savings? Digital cameras are cheap ...

Why should they not charge for this? Its going to cost them to pay the person doing the damage estimate and write up a cost report. That's not free to them. They probably used to do it free of charge and then people like you just use them to get the free estimate and then do it yourself. To many people take advantage of the free estimate and don't reward the business with the work when its time to repair.

Its pretty clear from your post that you never intended to have the dealer fix anything for you starting out, you just wanted something for free.

 

[Harpo]

Well, the stealer isn't going to get a thin dime out of it now because I will order all the parts off the web after the insurance company cuts me a check. There are plenty of consumers out there who enable the stealers, obviously. dduelin seems to side with them and accept it because, well, doesn't everybody cheat, lie, and steal?

 

[dduelin]

I have several good dealers I frequent and like to spend time in. One in particular, Cycles of Jacksonville, I have taken time to build good relationships with people that work there. It works for me. I buy parts from them if they can match internet prices and they usually do. We both win. I do all my own service but for tires and they do that for me. Once I bought lunch in on a Saturday for the parts and service department because they often help me with advice and they give me time to talk bikes and give me good pricing. I'm the one that owes them more than $30 worth of pizza. I have to say the dealers I know aren't at all like the one you describe. The ones like yours I avoid.

 

[st11ray]

Dealers are like any other business, there are good ones and bad ones. When you find a good one you need to support them as much as possible. And, like Dave said, dropping off goodies at the service dept works wonders in the long run. I use to drop off donuts and pizza to the guys at my local bicycle shop. Seems I never had to leave my bike for service. I'd walk in and ask them if I could drop my bicycle off for service and they would take it right to the stand and fix it for me. Lots of times they wouldn't even charge me!
We used to have a BMW dealer here that was great too. It was a hangout as well as a dealer. They were't cheap but they did things right. The owner even put up with an ST rider hanging around talking smack!