Tire Mounting Question

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I got new Shinko 705's for my V Strom.

The rear (150/70R 17) has a little red circle and a white stamp 'Q13' (the stamp is about 1/3 the way around the tire from the red circle). Obviously the tire goes on the rim with the red circle next to the valve.

The front (110/80R 19) has no red circle or any marking besides a white stamp 'C17'. I assume this is the inspector's stamp and has nothing to do with mounting position? Is this correct?
 

wjbertrand

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Pay no attention to that stamp. I had a 705 front that at first I thought had no red dot but upon closer examination (much closer) I finally found it but it quite faint and faded. Easy to miss.


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I had a 705 front that at first I thought had no red dot but upon closer examination (much closer) I finally found it but it quite faint and faded. Easy to miss.
You got it! Thanks. I put it on our kitchen counter (on newspapers to preserve the peace) and went over the whole tire - both sides under bright light. Much lighter than the rear tire, but pretty plain once I found it. So this is the light side of the tire and I assume the valve on the wheel is the heavy point?
 

Mophead

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I have found the valve stem is seldom the heavy spot on the rim. I have a Metzeler static balancer and if you put the rim on the balancer without tire you can find the heavy spot and mark it on the inside of the rim with a magic marker. Have found only a couple of rims over the years where the valve stem is the heavy spot.
 
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I have found the valve stem is seldom the heavy spot on the rim. I have a Metzeler static balancer and if you put the rim on the balancer without tire you can find the heavy spot and mark it on the inside of the rim with a magic marker. Have found only a couple of rims over the years where the valve stem is the heavy spot.
I was going to do that - I have one of those ball bearing w/ two cones for balancing a wheel. So is the marked spot on the tire the LIGHT spot or the HEAVY spot? Kind of hard to put my tire on this type of balancer.
 

Andrew Shadow

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The dot on the tire is the static lightest spot of the tire. It is intended to be located adjacent to the heaviest spot of the wheel which is commonly considered to be where the valve is but this is not necessarily so.
 
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The dot on the tire is the static lightest spot of the tire. It is intended to be located adjacent to the heaviest spot of the wheel which is commonly considered to be where the valve is but this is not necessarily so.
Like I said, I'm going to check the balance of the tireless rim. Then I'll put my T valve and TPMS on and check again. Afterward I'll report back. (This might take a few days; I set my tire machine up outdoors and it's supposed to rain for the next 3 days.)
 

Andrew Shadow

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Like I said, I'm going to check the balance of the tireless rim. Then I'll put my T valve and TPMS on and check again. Afterward I'll report back. (This might take a few days; I set my tire machine up outdoors and it's supposed to rain for the next 3 days.)
I installed aluminium angled valves on my rims. I checked the balance with the valve caps on but without the tire installed. I balanced the tireless wheels using the Honda OEM wheel weights that mechanically clip on to the raised centre-line of the rim. This is a one-time deal and these weights will remain installed as a permanent initial balance since this will not change unless I change valves. The heaviest point of the wheel was close to the location of the valve but it was not at the valve. After I install tires I check the balance of the whole wheel and tire assembly. If further fine tuning is required I use the the stick-on weights to accomplish this. The stick-on weights get removed every tire change and re-applied as required for the next tire.
 

wjbertrand

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I have the Orange Electronics internal TPMS sensors that are integral to the valve stem, so that part is indeed the heaviest location on the tireless wheels, without question, in my case.
 
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The dot on the tire is the static lightest spot of the tire. It is intended to be located adjacent to the heaviest spot of the wheel which is commonly considered to be where the valve is but this is not necessarily so.
I looked at Stromtrooper, and found this: "Those are not tire valve marks. The marks vary by tire maker, but they are usually for the high road force variation point of the tire. Tires are not perfectly round. The red dot would be by the high point. Or, the tires do not have perfectly uniform flex in the casing. The red dot would be for the stiff point. The wheels are not perfectly round, either. If the wheels are marked with a low point, you'd want the red dot on the tire at the low point mark on the wheel (this is match mounting). If the tires have a yellow dot, and that tire maker marks the light point of the tire with a yellow dot, you'd want that at the wheel's heavy point, the valve stem. If there is both a red and yellow dot, red rules. And some tires don't have the dot. And, some tire makers have a different system. So, putting the dot at the stem might give a smoother ride or require less weight to balance, or it might make no difference at all."

A revzilla geek said the red dot was the HEAVY point of the tire. The USA rep for Shinko in Boise, ID, said the red dot was the LIGHT point, but he really had nothing to back that up and sounded unsure of himself. I asked if he had a factory tech line number and he said I couldn't reach them, because they were in Korea, but he would check the literature he had and would get back to me. He did within an hour, and said the red circle is definitely the tire's LIGHT point and goes next to the valve. He also added that for 4 wheeled vehicles, the red dot indicates the heavy point, the reverse of motorcycles.

Checked my wheel with the original valve on one of those ball bearing balancers - it stopped rotating with with the valve at about 5 o'clock. When I removed the valve stem, it balanced with the wheel at around 4:00. After I put in the T valve and screwed on my Hawkshead TPMS sensor, the valve now stopped at 6 o'clock.
 

wjbertrand

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The USA rep for Shinko in Boise, ID, said the red dot was the LIGHT point, but he really had nothing to back that up and sounded unsure of himself. I asked if he had a factory tech line number and he said I couldn't reach them, because they were in Korea, but he would check the literature he had and would get back to me. He did within an hour, and said the red circle is definitely the tire's LIGHT point and goes next to the valve.
This is exactly what Shinko told me as well when I emailed them about it.
 
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This is exactly what Shinko told me as well when I emailed them about it.
Right, and my point about all of this doubting his expertise, was his lack of confidence (it was in his voice too), and his inablity to tell me that he was telling me verbatim what Shinko's tech manual had to say. I also object to Shinko saying, "put the red dot next to the valve" because this is imprecise. How does Shinko know that EVERY wheel with EVERY valve will be heavy? And in my case, with the original rubber valve, it was not the heavy point. When I told him I was going to check my wheel sans tire, he said, 'well, then, you put the red dot near the heavy point....'
 

Andrew Shadow

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How does Shinko know that EVERY wheel with EVERY valve will be heavy?
Peter:
You indicated a red dot in your initial post. I didn't click on to the colour because there was only discussion of the one dot. I had the feeling that I was missing something and reading it again the red sparked my memory cells. So, if the motorcycle tire industry uses the same protocols as the car tire industry does, and if my recollection is correct, my response to you in post # 6 above is incorrect. The red dot is not for balance but rather run-out.

With regards to car tires;
Tire manufacturers don't know where the heaviest point of your, or anyone else's wheel is. Tire manufacturers have no control over where or how any given tire is going to be installed in the retail environment. All that they can do is indicate where the static lightest balance point of the tire is. Proper balancing instructions detail that the static lightest point of the tire is to be aligned with the static heaviest point of the wheel- not the valve. However, there is no way for a tire installer to know where the static heaviest point of any wheel is without checking the wheel without a tire installed. Customers aren't going to be willing to pay for this extra work to determine that point. It is also not considered necessary as this is only used as an initial balance. For the majority of wheels the heaviest point will be in the vicinity of the valve. Aligning the dot with the valve puts the lightest part of the tire in close enough proximity to the heaviest part of the wheel to achieve this initial balance. This is only intended to be an initial balance. Its purpose is to reduce the amount of weight needed to achieve the final balance. This is because excessive amounts of wheel weights can result in shimmies, vibrations, etc., due to a physics priciples that I no longer remember. For this reason proper balancing instructions, and all shop manuals, list a maximum amount of weight that should be used to balance a wheel and tire assembly. The final balance is determined and achieved using an accurate dynamic balancer. The accuracy of the final balance achieved using a dynamic balancer renders the initial balance irrelevant other than that it served to reduce the amount of weight required to achieve the final balance.

As for the colour and number of dots on tire sidewalls- I am reaching way back in my memory cells so this may not be gospel but this is the way that I remember it;
Tires that were supplied by the tire manufacturers directly to the car manufacturers had two dots- one red and one other colour.
The red dot indicated the point on the tire where the greatest effect from radial run-out would be found. It is a little more scientific than that but that is the basic concept. There would be a corresponding mark on the wheel from the wheel manufacturer indicating the point where the least effect from radial run-out would be found. Aligning these two points served to reduce the effect of total radial run-out on the wheel and tire assembly and served to improve the vehicle's ride. The balance was then taken care of by dynamically balancing the assembly. This process was something that was primarily used by the car manufacturers when installing tires on wheels at that factory. I am not aware that it was ever something used afterwards by the retail tire industry but I haven't been in it for a long time.
The dot that indicated this point on a tire was red. As I recall red was used uniformly by all tire manufacturers to indicate this radial run-out point.

A second dot was used to indicate the static lightest balance point of the tire. It was intended to be aligned with the static heaviest point of the wheel as outlined above. As I recall there was no uniformity amongst the tire manufacturers as far as the colour used to indicate the static lightest point of the tire. I remember most commonly seeing white or yellow dots however.

If there were both a red dot and another colour dot the protocol was that the red dot took precedence and is to be aligned with the corresponding point on the wheel if it is known. On many car rims received new with the car from the factory this point was indicated. If it was not known then the non-red dot was to be aligned with the valve. After either method the wheel and tire assembly was then dynamically balanced.

If there is only a red dot this was for the radial run-out and the static lightest point of the tire has not been indicated. Best practice is to align the red dot with the heaviest point of the wheel but this does not necessarily achieve a superior balance as this is not its function.

Again, all of the above is what I remember for car tires. I have no idea if motorcycle tires follow the same regiment. Research will tell you that I guess.
 
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Peter:
You indicated a red dot in your initial post. I didn't click on to the colour because there was only discussion of the one dot. I had the feeling that I was missing something and reading it again the red sparked my memory cells. So, if the motorcycle tire industry uses the same protocols as the car tire industry does, and if my recollection is correct, my response to you in post # 6 above is incorrect. The red dot is not for balance but rather run-out.

With regards to car tires;
Tire manufacturers don't know where the heaviest point of your, or anyone else's wheel is. Tire manufacturers have no control over where or how any given tire is going to be installed in the retail environment. All that they can do is indicate where the static lightest balance point of the tire is. Proper balancing instructions detail that the static lightest point of the tire is to be aligned with the static heaviest point of the wheel- not the valve. However, there is no way for a tire installer to know where the static heaviest point of any wheel is without checking the wheel without a tire installed. Customers aren't going to be willing to pay for this extra work to determine that point. It is also not considered necessary as this is only used as an initial balance. For the majority of wheels the heaviest point will be in the vicinity of the valve. Aligning the dot with the valve puts the lightest part of the tire in close enough proximity to the heaviest part of the wheel to achieve this initial balance. This is only intended to be an initial balance. Its purpose is to reduce the amount of weight needed to achieve the final balance. This is because excessive amounts of wheel weights can result in shimmies, vibrations, etc., due to a physics priciples that I no longer remember. For this reason proper balancing instructions, and all shop manuals, list a maximum amount of weight that should be used to balance a wheel and tire assembly. The final balance is determined and achieved using an accurate dynamic balancer. The accuracy of the final balance achieved using a dynamic balancer renders the initial balance irrelevant other than that it served to reduce the amount of weight required to achieve the final balance.

As for the colour and number of dots on tire sidewalls- I am reaching way back in my memory cells so this may not be gospel but this is the way that I remember it;
Tires that were supplied by the tire manufacturers directly to the car manufacturers had two dots- one red and one other colour.
The red dot indicated the point on the tire where the greatest effect from radial run-out would be found. It is a little more scientific than that but that is the basic concept. There would be a corresponding mark on the wheel from the wheel manufacturer indicating the point where the least effect from radial run-out would be found. Aligning these two points served to reduce the effect of total radial run-out on the wheel and tire assembly and served to improve the vehicle's ride. The balance was then taken care of by dynamically balancing the assembly. This process was something that was primarily used by the car manufacturers when installing tires on wheels at that factory. I am not aware that it was ever something used afterwards by the retail tire industry but I haven't been in it for a long time.
The dot that indicated this point on a tire was red. As I recall red was used uniformly by all tire manufacturers to indicate this radial run-out point.

A second dot was used to indicate the static lightest balance point of the tire. It was intended to be aligned with the static heaviest point of the wheel as outlined above. As I recall there was no uniformity amongst the tire manufacturers as far as the colour used to indicate the static lightest point of the tire. I remember most commonly seeing white or yellow dots however.

If there were both a red dot and another colour dot the protocol was that the red dot took precedence and is to be aligned with the corresponding point on the wheel if it is known. On many car rims received new with the car from the factory this point was indicated. If it was not known then the non-red dot was to be aligned with the valve. After either method the wheel and tire assembly was then dynamically balanced.

If there is only a red dot this was for the radial run-out and the static lightest point of the tire has not been indicated. Aligning the red dot with the heaviest point of the tire does not necessarily achieve a superior balance as this is not its function.

Again, all of the above is what I remember for car tires. I have no idea if motorcycle tires follow the same regiment. Research will tell you that I guess.
and if you think the tire is taking too much weight (tech opinion) they recommend to rotate the tire 180 degrees and rebalance
 
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