varying pad wear
- Thread starter Catmandu2
- Start date
Every bicycle rider learns it's easier to do balancing using just the front brakes. Keep the back pushing against the front.
It's all in what and how you learn. My ST1300 rarely see back brake used. Mostly just when hauling down the speed from the highway and I'm using both. In parking lots, nothing but front brake.
OP
OP
So I popped in 3 sets of OEM brake pads today. But most of the work was in cleaning, polishing and lube. I used the skate lace polishing method that another poster here had suggested. My polishing compound was Autosol metal polish. It takes some old fashioned cleaning with an old toothbrush and some Dot4 fluid. A collection of wooden shims are used to move the pistons fully out (without popping them free). I also used the wooden shims to capture the skate lace,, as it was threaded around the pistons various ways. The results were quite good,,, and you kind of develop the technique as you go along. By using the lace in various ways,,, you can polish each piston completely around. Use more dot4 and the toothbrush to rinse the polishing product away. Then clean up the fluid with paper towels. Using this method allows you to not break the hydraulic seals (which would then require a full bleeding),, and not add any corruption to what might already be in your piston seals. It is not as good a full rebuild,, obviously. But so far the results are good this time around. Thanks to the guy who recommended the skate laces,,, cheers,, Cat'
Are the calipers still on your bike? Twisting the hoses like that does no harm?
OP
OP
Yes,,, the calipers are still on my bike,, and they were there during my polishing efforts. I did not subject the hoses to any great amount of stress. Cheers,, Cat'
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Well done Cat.
Now - please forgive me if I am wrong, but take a look at your pad spring in the 2nd photo that you posted. It appears to be in the wrong way round. There's a wider strip and a narrower strip. The wider strip should be on the side with the pistons. The narrow strip has two little tags which keep the inside pad in place. These tags may be interfering with the outside pads (nearest the pistons), or the pads may fall off the narrow strip when they reach a certain amount of wear if the spring is inserted the wrong way round.
As I said - I may be wrong a I cannot see the narrow strip in the photo, but what I can see looks to be the wider strip without the tags.
Just check please. Attached photo shows the spring correctly placed with the two tags circled on the narrow spring strip.
(nb the same may apply to the front pads on pre-2008 models, they are a similar design. Front calipers on models from 2008 have a redesigned spring which is impossible to insert the wrong way round.)
Now - please forgive me if I am wrong, but take a look at your pad spring in the 2nd photo that you posted. It appears to be in the wrong way round. There's a wider strip and a narrower strip. The wider strip should be on the side with the pistons. The narrow strip has two little tags which keep the inside pad in place. These tags may be interfering with the outside pads (nearest the pistons), or the pads may fall off the narrow strip when they reach a certain amount of wear if the spring is inserted the wrong way round.
As I said - I may be wrong a I cannot see the narrow strip in the photo, but what I can see looks to be the wider strip without the tags.
Just check please. Attached photo shows the spring correctly placed with the two tags circled on the narrow spring strip.
(nb the same may apply to the front pads on pre-2008 models, they are a similar design. Front calipers on models from 2008 have a redesigned spring which is impossible to insert the wrong way round.)
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That works as well.
Good question John, however, if you notice the small center strip in your picture, you'll see that it is on the narrow side (back of caliper) and since you can see his, it means that the wider strip is hidden behind the pistons where it should be.
Thanks for posting the picture of the two tabs though. This is a common problem area to most folks when they try and slip the rear pads into place without removing the caliper, and sit the edge of the pad on top of the tab, thus bending it over the first time the brakes are applied!
Anytime rear pads are inserted/installed, they should be observed from the right side (through the wheel opening), the left side (under the muffler) and from the rear to make sure the inboard pad is square and flush with the caliper. If you can see ANY gap between the back of the rear inboard pad and the caliper, it may mean that your on top of the tab and not next to it.
Sorry for getting off topic a little.
OP good job figuring out the ST-Whisperer's method of threading the lace through the 3 pistons
Nylon para-cord (with the inner white strands removed) is a little narrower, has a little more texture for grabbing crap, scrubs a little better, and can be rinsed off and saved after use .02.
Thanks for posting the picture of the two tabs though. This is a common problem area to most folks when they try and slip the rear pads into place without removing the caliper, and sit the edge of the pad on top of the tab, thus bending it over the first time the brakes are applied!
Anytime rear pads are inserted/installed, they should be observed from the right side (through the wheel opening), the left side (under the muffler) and from the rear to make sure the inboard pad is square and flush with the caliper. If you can see ANY gap between the back of the rear inboard pad and the caliper, it may mean that your on top of the tab and not next to it.
Sorry for getting off topic a little.
OP good job figuring out the ST-Whisperer's method of threading the lace through the 3 pistons
Nylon para-cord (with the inner white strands removed) is a little narrower, has a little more texture for grabbing crap, scrubs a little better, and can be rinsed off and saved after use .02.
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Well - I wasn't sure, but it was worth asking the question to check. But you are right Larry.
OP
OP
Thanks guys,,, the pads seem to retracting better,,, and the discs are running more evenly and cooler than before. The uneven wear between the previous pad sets, which was the original subject of this thread,,, should be improved. I am also retraining myself to do less trail braking (old motocross habit),,, and that should reduce rear pad wear rates as well. One curiosity though,,, on the front right caliper. As I was re-assembling it,,, I made sure the pistons were fully retracted (and that the spring clip was properly oriented),, also no dirt on the pad seat. But the new pads still did not open wide enough to slip over the disc. After several attempts,,, I removed the inside pad's backing shim (oem pads),,, which opened up the gap enough to slip over the disc. I rode that way for a couple of days,,, noting that my disc temps were normal,,, and that drag was minimal. Last night,,, I put the shim back in and it rides fine,,, with just a hint of "swish" from the RH caliper when you spin the wheel by hand. Has anyone else found new oem pads installs, that did not have the .7mm or so clearance at first ?? thanks,, Cat'
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Just a thought - are you talking about the thin shiny metal anti-squeal plate, or a thin white heat insulating sheet ? Honda don't provide the heat insulation sheet for the front pads - only the rear, but some other manufacturers supply them with all of their pads.
I've never had problems with fitting new OEM pads and the anti-squeal plate, but the one time I tried fitting spare heat insulation sheets to the front, there was not enough room.
I've never had problems with fitting new OEM pads and the anti-squeal plate, but the one time I tried fitting spare heat insulation sheets to the front, there was not enough room.
OP
OP
I am talking about the shiny ant-squeal plate,, John. I don't think I have ever encountered a thermal shim on either end,,, and I have purchased and installed two sets of rear oem pads and a full set of front pads now ?? Cheers,,, Cat'
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Oh well, worth asking anyway. All of my rear pads have come with a heat shield. Never the fronts.
The front pads are a close fit when they are brand new, and mine always ssshhh scrape a bit for the first few miles - but it's not enough to get them hot and only noticeable when I wheel it out of the garage.
If the brake caliper slide pins are lubed and non of the caliper pistons are are stuck, you should be able to rotate a wheel by hand and not feel any brake drage. Then uneven pad wear, pad away from caliper pistons is caused by wheel torque that occurs with ytracking error and the necessity to counter--steer. The fix is to eliminate the necessity to counter-steer. Place the bike on center stand and adjust triple tree height with a level on the rear platform, to be level. You should find it is tilted downward, low side towards the front of the bike. Bill
Andrew Shadow
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If I understand this statement correctly it means;
Raise or lower the front forks in the triple tree until the platform behind the rear seat is perfectly horizontal to the ground while the bike is sitting on the centre stand.
If that is what is being recommended can someone explain the theory behind how this affects the wear level of the front brake pad that is opposite the caliper piston.
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Can you give me more explanation of this . I am confused . Thanks
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I realized that he hadn't been back in a while when I asked the question and so wasn't really expecting an answer directly from him. I came across this post when I was was looking for information on a related issue and found it a curious suggestion. I don't understand how the height of the front end of the motorcycle verses the rear end could have an effect on front brake pad wear. It is even more curious that it could cause more or less pad wear on one side of the front wheel versus the other. I was hoping that some one might have an explanation.
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Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
John:
I was actually searching for some information related to another question I asked of you a while back in another of your threads- see here.
For some reason I thought that I had read a post recently made by Larry (Igofar) that he had managed to separate the left front caliper from the SMC sub-assembly without opening the hydraulic system. This would make cleaning and lubricating the left front caliper slider pins possible without creating the need to do a brake system bleed afterwards if this was the case. I don't know how that would be accomplished so I was looking for it when I found this post about uneven pad wear. I haven't figured out how this could be possible at any rate and for the life of me I can't find the post I was thinking of so I am pretty convinced that I mis-read something or am just mis-remembering.
I mention it out of misguided wishful thinking of the possibility I guess.
I was actually searching for some information related to another question I asked of you a while back in another of your threads- see here.
For some reason I thought that I had read a post recently made by Larry (Igofar) that he had managed to separate the left front caliper from the SMC sub-assembly without opening the hydraulic system. This would make cleaning and lubricating the left front caliper slider pins possible without creating the need to do a brake system bleed afterwards if this was the case. I don't know how that would be accomplished so I was looking for it when I found this post about uneven pad wear. I haven't figured out how this could be possible at any rate and for the life of me I can't find the post I was thinking of so I am pretty convinced that I mis-read something or am just mis-remembering.
I mention it out of misguided wishful thinking of the possibility I guess.