Vessel 220W Ball Grip JIS screw driver

[MaxPete]

Apropos of impact tools - not to disagree in any way with bdalameda's comment, but I have found that impact tools of any kind are much more effective if I use a dead-blow hammer on them, rather than a conventional metal, plastic, or rubber mallet. A dead-blow hammer is a hollow hard plastic mallet that is filled with small lead shot - it does not 'bounce back' when you whack something with it, which among other things means that much less force needs to be applied to get the same effect.

Michael

The key trick to using an impact driver of any kind is that you must “preload” it by rotating the driver in the screwhead in the loosening direction and firmly holding it there and THEN giving the driver a smart cuff with a dead blow hammer. The axial force of the hammer does not translate into very much rotation of the tip. The tip rotates juuuust enough to crack the screw loose (I'd estimate perhaps 5-10 degrees tops depending on how hard you hit the end of the impact driver). Thus, you need the "preload" to ensure that the tiny rotation of the driver tip actually turns the screw and is not simply taken up in the sloppy fit between the drive tip and the screwhead.

Using this technique, I have found that even the tightest screws with totally messed-up heads will pop loose on the first, or at most the second, whack.

If you simply insert the driver into the screwhead and start wailing on it with a hammer - you are likely to either strip the screwhead or bust it clean off the screw (leading to tears and/or non-approved language).

The other tip I can offer based on several decades of using impact drivers is that, because they don’t get used very often, the little ramps inside the driver mechanism can get “crusty” which results in the force of the hammer blow NOT being effectively transformed into screwdriver tip rotation. For that reason, I give my impact drivers a little squirt of oil just about every time I use them to make sure that everything inside is nice and slidy.

Pete

 

[bdalameda]

Here is the difference between a standard Phillips drive and a JIS drive.


Regarding the original design of the Phillips head drive - It was originally design to cam out to prevent the screw heads from breaking - see below:

Phillips developed Thompsons invention screw into a workable form. Phillips had come up with a recessed cross screw designed for efficiency on an auto assembly line. The idea was that the screwdriver would turn the screw with increasing force until the tip of the driver popped out, called camout. When tightening a Phillips screw with a Phillips screw driver you will notice that when the torque gets to be too strong, the screw driver winds itself out of the screw so the screw head would not be ruined or brake off.

 

[CYYJ]

...the larger and stiffer hand impact driver will transmit the shock and twist torque directly to the head of the screw and break it loose.

Dan:

Do you know if / where it is possible to purchase JIS bits that will fit into the end of a standard impact driver?

Michael

 

[Nashcat]

Ok, here’s a trick question. Which one of the tips below is the $14 Vessel Impact driver and which is the $1.69 Harbor Freight driver?

The Vessel is on the right, I think. The reason I brought it up, is the Harbor Freight is a JIS tip. I found this out on another forum and bought a couple. They fit as well as the Vessels that I have. I wouldn’t hammer on the HF drivers or put channel-locks on the handle, but I haven’t seen any tip wear with normal use. At those prices, I may buy a couple of more, just so I can always find one when I need it.

 

[bdalameda]

Dan:

Do you know if / where it is possible to purchase JIS bits that will fit into the end of a standard impact driver?

Michael

Here is a link where I get mine. The typical Impact drivers use a 5/16 hex bit. I get the JIS bits from Vessel. https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/impact/431801-detail

 

[MaxPete]

Go Fast Innovations has them too - I just bough the a full set this morning for $24.95 CDN.

Pete

 

[fnmag]

The Vessel is on the right, I think. The reason I brought it up, is the Harbor Freight is a JIS tip. I found this out on another forum and bought a couple. They fit as well as the Vessels that I have. I wouldn’t hammer on the HF drivers or put channel-locks on the handle, but I haven’t seen any tip wear with normal use. At those prices, I may buy a couple of more, just so I can always find one when I need it.

I was right...dumb luck.

 

[ST Gui]

The key trick to using an impact driver of any kind is that you must “preload” it by rotating the driver in the screwhead in the loosening direction and firmly holding it there and THEN giving the driver a smart cuff with a dead blow hammer. Using this technique, I have found that even the tightest screws with totally messed-up heads will pop loose on the first or at most the second whack.

Amen! This was a lesson I had to discover own my own when working on my 305 scrambler. The screws were commonly referred to Wisconsin not Philips because of the 'cheese heads'.

I'd rounded some of the screws with a Philips. When I accidentally discovered the secret of preloading, the heavens parted and the sun shone. I didn't have to whack the driver like I was slipping tree rounds. Had I known about JIS before DIYing my 305 the screws would have never been Wisconsin'ed.

 

[MaxPete]

Okey doke - I ordered two sets of the JIS impact bits from www.gofastinnovations.com yesterday morning and here they are today in my mailbox!

 

[fnmag]

Okey doke - I ordered two sets of the JIS impact bits from www.gofastinnovations.com yesterday morning and here they are today in my mailbox!

Nice looking piece of kit.

 

[ST Gui]

Okey doke - I ordered two sets of the JIS impact bits from www.gofastinnovations.com

Nice bit o' kit. I just sent them my $2.12USD.

 

[Wintston]

Yup, I couldn’t agree more. The little Vessel 220W has been a great addition to my on-board kit for several years.

The key take-away is that I f you work on Japanese bikes/cars/toasters/....whatever, you truly need a set of JIS drivers. Using a Philips driver is a mistake as it will damage the JIS screw heads and thus, it will eventually strip them.

As for brands, the Japanese “Vessel” brand is definitely top-drawer and is readily available on the web at reasonable cost. Be sure to get the big IMPACTA model with the #3 JIS end. It has a silver handle which incorporates an impact driver function that makes clutch basket screws a doddle (even if some earlier “mechanic” has messed them up quite badly). I also like the knurled shaft on the snazzy blue-green driver handled Vessels with makes spinning in/out long screws, a breeze.
As an alternative to Vessel, Canadian tool vender Paul Jones of London, Ontario also makes a lovely set of JIS drivers, including some with a hex end on the handle for added torque, which he markets at Go Fast Innovations:

https://www.gofastinnovations.com/store1/JIS-Screwdriver-Set-p104013955

The three-driver set above sells for $34.95 shipped (that’s CDN which equals around $3.47 USD I think). Paul has just introduced a cool set of 1/4” shank hex impact driver JIS bits for the princely sum of $24.95 CDN shipped (that’s about $2.12 USD at the present rate of exchange).

They really are about the nicest screwdrivers I’ve ever used, plus they work perfectly well on REAL Phillips screws so you could just toss your Phillips drivers (or give them to someone you don’t like).

I have ordered from Paul several times (including 2 sets of those new impact bits about 15 minutes ago) and he’s honest, fast, efficient, cost effective and a great guy who deserves our patronage IMHO.

Check ‘em out!

Pete

Thanks - just ordered per your recommendation. Great to order from someone who is close by too : )

 

[MaxPete]

Thanks - just ordered per your recommendation. Great to order from someone who is close by too : )

ZACKLEY!

 

[RaYzerman]

I have the GoFast Innovations set also, and they fit screws on the bike well. Could use a #1, but that's not included. I also found they work very well on any Phillips screw, so I may toss a few of the PH's....... however, I also took a number of Phillips screwdrivers today and ground a few thou off the tip to make it similar to a JIS..... guess what, they work great..... you could use one in a pinch on a JIS screw if you didn't have a JIS bit.

 

[Rob20111]

All you need to know about JIS Drivers. - This is the heavy one with the impact driver mechanism in the handle.

View attachment 230778

Just bought one recently too. Very impressed. Use it around the house also.
Don't know how I survived so long without one.

 

[ST Gui]

I'm not sure I'd recommend the Vessel Megadora line. Well at least not without a caution. Vessel has 'improved' the drivers with a few tweaks. One bugs me a little though. It's what they call JAWSFIT. And a fit is what I had when I got one of these drivers.

Note the inset in the lower right
​

"New JAWSFIT Tip Design:
The 900JF and 930JF series feature a new JAWSFIT cross-point tip design. Small projections on the blade edges allow the tip of the screwdriver to "BITE" firmly into the screw head, reduce pressing force, prevent driver tip damage, and help prevent cam-out. Applications include construction, automotive, industrial use, general fastening, and more.

NOTE: The 900JF and 930JF JAWSFIT feature is not intended to be used when working with soft or plated screws, and may not be suitable for restoration work."


The JIS is a must. Just say No! to Phillips drivers. This JAWSFIT may not bother some people but one of the very cool things I noticed about using the older version of Vessel JIS is that 'black' or oxide screws could be removed and replaced with zero evidence of same. That's just not possible with even a good Phillips on Japanese bikes and now not with these otherwise great JIS drivers.

I ordered a non-JF model and got the JF. This could be a just a problem with the Amazon third party vendor– I've got to get that sorted. No doubt there are othe JIS manufacturers that won't have this feature. YMMV. Mind how you go.

 

[MaxPete]

YIKES! That certainly does not seem like a positive upgrade to me either.

OK - well, may I suggest that you check these out as an alternative to Vessel and their "new and improved" combo vise-grip-screwdriver...(and please note that I have NO financial or any other interest in Paul's business whatsoever. In fact, I have never met him or even spoken on the phone to him. I have found his products, prices and service to be excellent - that's it).

Canadian tool vendor Paul Jones of London, Ontario makes a lovely set of JIS drivers, including some with a hex end on the handle for added torque, which he markets at Go Fast Innovations:

https://www.gofastinnovations.com/store1/JIS-Screwdriver-Set-p104013955

The three-driver set above sells for $34.95 shipped (that’s CDN which equals around $3.47 USD I think). Paul has just introduced a cool set of 1/4” shank hex impact driver JIS bits for the princely sum of $24.95 CDN shipped (that’s about $2.12 USD at the present rate of exchange).

They really are about the nicest screwdrivers I’ve ever used, plus they work perfectly well on REAL Phillips screws so you could just toss your Phillips drivers (or give them to someone you don’t like).

I have ordered tools from Paul several times (including 2 sets of those new impact bits about 15 minutes ago) and he is honest, fast, efficient, cost effective and a great guy who deserves our patronage IMHO.

Check ‘em out!

Pete

 

[GGely]

MaxPete, I second your endorsement of Paul and his products. Great guy, great product.

 

[DeanR]

Paul has just introduced a cool set of 1/4” shank hex impact driver JIS bits for the princely sum of $24.95 CDN shipped (that’s about $2.12 USD at the present rate of exchange).

??

 

[fnmag]

YIKES! That certainly does not seem like a positive upgrade to me either.

OK - well, may I suggest that you check these out as an alternative to Vessel and their "new and improved" combo vise-grip-screwdriver...(and please note that I have NO financial or any other interest in Paul's business whatsoever. In fact, I have never met him or even spoken on the phone to him. I have found his products, prices and service to be excellent - that's it).

Canadian tool vendor Paul Jones of London, Ontario makes a lovely set of JIS drivers, including some with a hex end on the handle for added torque, which he markets at Go Fast Innovations:

https://www.gofastinnovations.com/store1/JIS-Screwdriver-Set-p104013955

The three-driver set above sells for $34.95 shipped (that’s CDN which equals around $3.47 USD I think). Paul has just introduced a cool set of 1/4” shank hex impact driver JIS bits for the princely sum of $24.95 CDN shipped (that’s about $2.12 USD at the present rate of exchange).

They really are about the nicest screwdrivers I’ve ever used, plus they work perfectly well on REAL Phillips screws so you could just toss your Phillips drivers (or give them to someone you don’t like).

I have ordered tools from Paul several times (including 2 sets of those new impact bits about 15 minutes ago) and he is honest, fast, efficient, cost effective and a great guy who deserves our patronage IMHO.

Check ‘em out!

Pete

Pete, I second your recommendation of Paul.
I've ordered once from him and everything was smooth as silk.