wanted to jump ship

[dm_mg]

Folks, this Saturday I wanted to explore my "dark side" options, went to one of the local BMW dealerships for a test ride.
Tried the 1600GT, the engine and all the gadgetry was nice, however the bike is as porky as my trusted ST1300.
I really wanted to like RT. Ergonomically, fit and finish is outstanding .... however, the engine was a big letdown! The engine is really lethargic(compared to ST1300), torque steer...!

Here is my question to people who have jumped ship and bought an RT, are there any regrets, how did you adjust to the "tractor factor"? Do you miss Honda's V4?

Thanks!

 

[BakerBoy]

Did you try a 1300GT? Per specs, it seems to be the best balance between the two bikes you mention.

I've only ridden a BMW 1200LT and a 1100RT (many years ago) and had the same obervations then, BTW.

 

[TPadden]

Did you try a 1300GT? .....

Discontinued 2011, but great model .....

 

[Mellow]

The Super Tenere has a little of that 'tractor' feeling... I believe other motorcyclists call it 'character'.. LOL I like it though, it's different. I'm lucky enough to have both and choose which one I want to ride and no matter which one I pick, I notice how great 'that' bike is as soon as I'm on it. If you're really serious, rent one for a day and put some miles on it to see if it works for you after a while. Might save you some money no matter which direction you go.

Top speed and smoothness is about the only thing the ST has over the boxer bikes. A boxer will really tear up the twisties. I've ridden with many GS'ers and it was all I could do to keep up. Obviously, the rider has a lot to do with that as well.

 

[bkra13]

Funny, I call the ST the Turbo Tractor, that's about what it sounds like.

 

[BendBill]

You'll soon hear from BMW fans who frequent this site and who obviously prefer the beemer.

Like some other ST 1300 riders on this board, I came over from the RT, though it was the very much slower 1150. After 3 1/2 years, I am really happy with my ST.

NOTE: On the new 1200 RT the fast factor is improved. It looks to run about even with ST once you learn to shift more frequently in the optimal rev ranges.

 

[pepollock]

I went from an '03 ST1300 to an '11 R1200RT, with a short stop in between with an FJR. As widely reported, the ST is smooooth but heavy. Surprisingly nimble for its weight, but still all of 725 pounds. Build quality and reliability is typically Honda. The seat and windscreen are often replaced. The R1200RT is a little buzzy at Interstate speeds even with its 6-speed transmission. Compared to the ST, the RT is a lightweight and you can really feel the difference at slow speeds and pushing it around the garage. Handling with the unique front suspension is terrific with little dive under heavy braking. Build quality is excellent as is reliability (mostly; refer to bmwmoa.org and other sites for info on final drive issues, which have been reduced but not eliminated by BMW) The BMW seat and windscreen are often replaced. Riding position is more upright so fewer RT riders install bar risers (my opinion) Maintenance costs are higher with the RT and BMW seems to discourage DIY efforts.

My bottom line: I really like by RT and won't be going back to an ST, unless Honda does something wonderful with an all-new ST. And BTW, compare pricing on 2012 STs and RTs, including accessories. Not much between them anymore. But both a terrific bikes and neither would be a mistake.

pete

 

[Des]

I actually like the boxer engine, I reckon it's a great road bike engine. I prefer it to my ST1100.

The torque reaction when you blip the throttle at standstill is just part of the engine. They all do that, I think. But it's only at standstill, it doesn't affect the bike when moving (so I found anyway).

If you mean a torque reaction when downshifting - I had that at first but I soon got used to how to downshift without it happening. It's not like the ST where it seems you can abuse it and nothing happens, on the BMW's I have ridden they reward more precise riding.

I reckon the BMW boxers are love it / hate it bikes. I loved it as soon as I ride my first Boxer. I guess people that don't click with them are never going to like them. I prefer the Boxer engine to the V4. Had I come across a decent 1150 for the same price as the ST, I would have taken a punt and risked the BMW reliability for what I perceive to be a better bike to ride.

 

[Bones]

Spent most of Saturday with the Lonesome Weirdoes, my local group. There are riders of Yamaha, Triumph, Honda, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, Kawasaki, but more BMWs than any other. Riding with these guys convinced me that I wanted an RT about 10 years ago, but the boxer motor was a deal breaker for me, twice (2002 R1150RT, 2005 R1200RT). It strikes me as an unrefined part of a bike that is otherwise very well sorted out. My Versys has sold me on the virtues of light weight, however, and I'm interested in whether the upcoming water-cooled boxer might fix the "character" enough for my liking.

The one bike that might tempt me, boxer and all, is the R1200R. That motor seems a much better match for the Roadster than the RT. Add a windshield and luggage and you have a very light bike with upright ergos that's all set to tour on. Last year there was a Roadster with a factory touring package (heated grips, trip computer, traction control, ABS, hard luggage, flyscreen, center stand) but I don't see it this year. That's another bike that might benefit from the water cooled boxer, but based on the spy photos it looks like the GS will get that mill first.

 

[Des]

The one bike that might tempt me, boxer and all, is the R1200R. That motor seems a much better match for the Roadster than the RT. Add a windshield and luggage and you have a very light bike with upright ergos that's all set to tour on. Last year there was a Roadster with a factory touring package (heated grips, trip computer, traction control, ABS, hard luggage, flyscreen, center stand) but I don't see it this year. That's another bike that might benefit from the water cooled boxer, but based on the spy photos it looks like the GS will get that mill first.

I agree, I reckon the Roadster is probably the best home for the Boxer engine. I've only ridden the R1100R but that is a hell of a bike - looks like a boring old fart's bike but it's so much fun to ride. I didn't really like the GS to ride- I found the front end lacked feedback on the 1150, 1200 and 1200GS. The strange thing is, I still do like the GS... but I like the KTM Adv more!

 

[dm_mg]

Discontinued 2011, but great model .....

Looks like my one of the dealers in the area has one with 4000 miles on the odometer.

yeah, this is really unfortunate, what is the logic in dropping this model?
I have never bought a used bike from a dealer, do they typically let you test ride a used unit?
Is 1300GT's motor as easy to work on as the boxer?

With everything getting bigger and heavier, I was thinking about dropping sport touring altogether , I was thinking about buying an adventure bike Yamaha S10 or upcoming Triumph Tiger explorer ...... or, catch this get a maxi scooter (a 650 Burgman or the upcoming touring beemer scooter)

LOL, what can I say I am really confused about my orientation

 

[TPadden]

yeah, this is really unfortunate, what is the logic in dropping this model?
I have never bought a used bike from a dealer, do they typically let you test ride a used unit?
Is 1300GT's motor as easy to work on as the boxer?

They dropped the GT because of model overlap with the K1600GT, R1200RT, and to a lesser extent the F800ST; they did continue that power train though in the K1300S and R.

Most BMW dealers have a very liberal test ride policy (as long as it isn't a consignment) - bring a license with mc endorsement and riding gear.

The slanted 4 K motor (as opposed to the pre 2004 flopped 4 K) is much more sophisticated than the horizontally opposed Boxer engine (160HP vs 110HP) so it's more complicated to work on; but in my experience either engine is reliable with only oil changes.

 

[Judge]

I went from an ST1300 to an RT with no regrets. The K16GT is a great bike, but if the weight of the ST is what has you looking elsewhere, than as you pointed out, it's not a good option.

Now, the cam head ('10 and up) RT is no slouch in the power department. Compared to an ST, it may have a bit less top end, but I would venture a guess and say it is close to being on par with the ST in other areas. Without question I can hustle an RT through corners faster than I could my ST.

I like twin cylinder bikes...and to me, the latest genertion boxer is my favorite. I rode a 2010 RT from Chicago to Deals Gap and back in 36 hours in total comfort. Most of the time the cruise was set at around 90 mph, the stereo playing, ESA set on comfort, and in a bubble of great wind protection.

Once I got to Deals Gap, the RT shined brightly in the handling department where it's lighter weight and actually very sporting handling where an absolute hoot! The boxer never felt low on power in any regard, and as a matter of fact there were some more powerful bikes that were not any faster in the corners...on the contrary. I set the ESA to sport, and it was positively on rails.

Boxers, or twins for that matter aren't for everyone. It took me a while before the boxer grew on me. It was not love at first ride as far as the boxer engine itself went. However, the more I rode it, the more I liked it. Boxers will give you the throbbing vibration on heavy throttle, and kind of a velvety low frequency pulse in general riding. However, at highway speeds, I never even notice the engine honestly, even at triple digits. Relative to "torque steer"...what? The only time you feel the engine torque the bike is at a stop and blip the throttle.

Up to you, but the RT is a great do it all bike. Not too heavy, will crank out long distances better than anything short of a Gold Wing, and it's a hoot to chuck around in the twisties when you get there.

I just sold my K16GT to a buddy, and bought another RT if that tells you anything. The RT is such a great well rounded bike you might in time develop a fondness for the boxer as I have. If not, sell it after a while on try something else, and try and enjoy the different experience the RT gives you in the meantime.

 

[Judge]

I agree, I reckon the Roadster is probably the best home for the Boxer engine. I've only ridden the R1100R but that is a hell of a bike - looks like a boring old fart's bike but it's so much fun to ride. I didn't really like the GS to ride- I found the front end lacked feedback on the 1150, 1200 and 1200GS. The strange thing is, I still do like the GS... but I like the KTM Adv more!

I'll disagree here if you have intentions of covering some long distance, ride 2 up, r live in a colder climate.

People do tour on the R's but, it has a smaller tank, even with a barn door windshield has significantly less protection, no cruise, and the list goes on.

Also, by the time you deck out an R with ESA, bags, etc, you are in RT territory. Ask me how I know...I almost bought an R classic last week

There's a reason why the R does not sell as well as the GS and the RT.

 

[Des]

I'll disagree here if you have intentions of covering some long distance, ride 2 up, r live in a colder climate.

People do tour on the R's but, it has a smaller tank, even with a barn door windshield has significantly less protection, no cruise, and the list goes on.

Also, by the time you deck out an R with ESA, bags, etc, you are in RT territory. Ask me how I know...I almost bought an R classic last week

There's a reason why the R does not sell as well as the GS and the RT.

I agree on the tank size - after having the ST it would be tough to go back to a small tank again.

For solo touring, daily use or in the cold, I agree, the RT is better than the R. For everything else I guess it depends on personal preference. Before I left the UK I had a weekend away on the R1100R and enjoyed every minute. Fuel range was not a problem as the other guy was on a KTM SMT - when touring with other people fuel stops are dictated by whoever has the lowest range. I had no issue with it being a naked bike in terms of wind protection, and this was in early November - so not exactly winter but reasonably cool outside.

As for the R vs the GS, I would have the R as a much better bike for road use. The RT too I found better to ride on the road. The GS sells more because of the image of the bike. The GSA has the fuel tank advantage of course.

It's a tough choice - GS, R, or RT. I reckon the right choice would depend on personal preference or use.

 

[John Anthony]

Maggie currently owns an K1300GT an previously owned an R1100RT. I've ridden both several times. I also rode a K1600GT for a half day. All are nice bikes with their pros and cons, but when the day is done, I'm a happy camper with my ST. She's given me a blank check to get any bike at any time, but I've yet to cash it and doubt I ever will.

John

 

[barto]

She's given me a blank check to get any bike at any time, but I've yet to cash it and doubt I ever will.

If you would be so kind as to forward that check to me.... I'm kinda leaning toward the R1200RT.

 

[John Anthony]

If you would be so kind as to forward that check to me.... I'm kinda leaning toward the R1200RT.

LOL! While I'm a generous soul, I'm not THAT generous!

John

 

[FieSTa45]

Shucks, my local Honda dealer has a '10 ST1300 sitting, looking for owner......

 

[Carl_T]

I've gone from and ST to a Bandit, to a 2007 RT. The Suzuki revved out to 10,000RPM (power about the same as the ST), so at first the RT seemed to run out of breath awfully early. I just didn't jell with the bike quite right at first, even though I've always loved singles and twins. I loved the chassis, but wasn't so sure about the motor.

After a bit of time in the saddle, I not only didn't miss the long wind of power, but fell in love with the bike completely, including the motor. For me the whole package is in the sweet spot for the things you encounter traveling.

I've done 40 miles of dirt road on the RT with a few guys on V-Stroms and the motor's power characteristics (and frame geometry) shined like a diamond. I've put the bike on cruise when forced onto the interstates, and the bikes motor happy perked along with it's twin song, sweat free. I've gotten hard into some very tight twisties and the motor again shined like a diamond, easily doing things in general, a good bit better than some heavier, smoother engined, more powerful bikes, giving away nothing in that environment. Actually it shines in that environment. The spread of overall versatility and enjoyment is very wide with the bike.

Now days, if you were to offer me an straight up trade for even a brand new model of the more powerful, but heavier sport tourers out there, you'd hear nothing more back beyond a hearty belly laugh and a polite "no thank you." I miss nothing and feel I've gained much with the switch. A good blend of characteristics it is for me. I even don't mind the paint shaker acceleration (as characterized by Bones (Hi Bud)), it's a twin after all. As a twin it does have some vibration under hard acceleration, which for me is problem free, it's just the bike as it is. I think it's plenty smooth even for non twin lovers at other throttle settings, however YMMV.

Oh yeah, torque steer is a parlor trick at stop lights for giggles, otherwise it doesn't exist.

Another thing that fails to exist as far as I'm concerned, is any numbness from the front suspension. I've always been able to feel the traction at the front, and I always know if it is sliding at all. I can also feel rolling pebbles etc. as well. To me that's good suspension feedback. However, I don't always feel every bump though. To me that's not numbness, just good suspension. My DRZ also doesn't let you feel every bump when on road, what with long travel suspension and all. So I guess it's how you define lack of feedback (which I've read about a time or two in relation to BMW suspension). Again, YMMV, just how the bike seems to me after time in the saddle.