What are the odds?

[Ron]

I would seriously consider a different dealer. I also would not believe a word said by anyone there at this point. The manager will back his tech unless he looking for an excuse to get rid of him. I would see it as an expensive lesson. Move on to a different dealer or learn to do it yourself.

I can't say much about the 1300's maintenace as I don't know much about them. If Honda followed the 1100's lead, the 1300 will be about bullet proof. With you guys attitude on maintenance, I'll buy definitely buy an ST from someone here when the time comes. I do maintenance 40 hours a week so I'm not inclined to do it at home. Other than consumables (oil, filters, brake pads, speedo cable, shocks, tires) my ST is pretty much '96 factory stock. I have rebuilt the clutch master cylinder, replaced the speedo drive, radiator overflow tank and hose, and deleted the vav. fuel valve. The valves were in spec last time I checked. Being a tad north of 100K, I intend to do some maintence this Fall when the temps break. Scheduled is a timing belt, clutch, clutch slave cylinder, valve cover gasket, drive inserts on rear wheel, and some new rubber cushions on the foot pegs. I don't ride like an old grandpa. I wind it up every ride and bounce the tach needle off rev. limiter ocasionally.

 

[GitSum]

ST1300 Valve Clearance Worksheet

ST1100 Valve Clearance Worksheet

 

[barto]

I would seriously consider a different dealer. I also would not believe a word said by anyone there at this point. Move on to a different dealer or learn to do it yourself.

I'm trying to learn to do as much as I can myself. In the meantime, I drive 45 minutes each way to dealer for work I'm not able to do myself. And there's a dealer 10 minutes from my house. Unfortunately, I have reason to distrust this dealer so I drive right past them to go to one I do trust.

I would recommend if you have any options at all you avoid this dealer in the future. If they take advantage of you once - shame on them. If you let them take advantage of you a second time - shame on you.

If it's possible, find someone on the forum in your area to help you learn to do as much as you can for yourself. It's MUCH cheaper and, most importantly, you know it's been done Right.

 

[ST1300 Alicia]

I've posted this link before and it has been very helpful in clearing up misconceptions. Brake fluid absorbs moisture and becomes corrosive with time. It's boiling point also drops as the moisture content rises. These websites are from Toyota Lexus Motor Corp.
Sometimes you don't have to be very smart, if you know where to look for the answer. I tried to copy and paste the text, but it doesn't seem to work for me tonight on a pdf Doc.


http://www.autoshop101.com/
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake01.pdf Page 8

AA Degree Auto Tech
ASE Master Tech.
Toyota Master Tech.
CA CDL Class A,T,M1 (ALL Retired)

 

[bobframe]

I've posted this link before and it has been very helpful in clearing up misconceptions. Brake fluid absorbs moisture and becomes corrosive with time. It's boiling point also drops as the moisture content rises. These websites are from Toyota Lexus Motor Corp.
Sometimes you don't have to be very smart, if you know where to look for the answer. I tried to copy and paste the text, but it doesn't seem to work for me tonight on a pdf Doc.


http://www.autoshop101.com/


http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake01.pdf Page 8

AA Degree Auto Tech
ASE Master Tech.
Toyota Master Tech.
CA CDL Class A,T,M1 (ALL Retired)

My education continues...good info on braking, hydraulics and brake fluid characteristics. Thanks.

 

[bobframe]

The service manager offered to let me go back and watch the tech take the measurements. Will take him up on his offer tomorrow morning. Should be interesting.

 

[The Cheese]

Please inform us of the hilarity. I would love to hear what happens.

 

[Mellow]

I helped Fergie do his valve check this past Sunday.

His feeler gauges were graduated in inches so they were .005, .006, .007 Inches so, IF you are using these type of gauges, .006 is the center... if .007 won't fit then the measurement could be .0061 through .0069 which with mm gauges you have smaller gaps to use to get a much more accurate measurement.

I can see how .006 fits, .007 doesn't so what's the measurement you write down?.... .006 or .0065?

I would think a tech working on a metric bike would use mm gauges but Honda lists both so neither is wrong.

I agree, if a customer asked for the specific measurements, it should have been provided and that lack of communication is something that they should and looks like they are addressing.

 

[bobframe]

I helped Fergie do his valve check this past Sunday.

His feeler gauges were graduated in inches so they were .005, .006, .007 Inches so, IF you are using these type of gauges, .006 is the center... if .007 won't fit then the measurement could be .0061 through .0069 which with mm gauges you have smaller gaps to use to get a much more accurate measurement.

I can see how .006 fits, .007 doesn't so what's the measurement you write down?.... .006 or .0065?

I would think a tech working on a metric bike would use mm gauges but Honda lists both so neither is wrong.

I agree, if a customer asked for the specific measurements, it should have been provided and that lack of communication is something that they should and looks like they are addressing.

Is there a benefit to measuring the clearances with such accuracy? What increments to the shims come in?

 

[cammy moir]

Bob. I have also developed a mistrust of dealers and tyre shops. After the last tyre change the mechanic forgot to tighten the right caliper retaining bolts. I discovered the fault a couple of days later as I reversed the bike into the garage at home and the caliper rotated with the disc. One bolt missing and one about to part company with the bike.
I have found, through sites like this and My-Mc, the courage and technical help to do most of the basic maintainence.
Best of luck with the dealer - but I'll stick with the guys on the forum. Thanks to all of them.

 

[Mellow]

Is there a benefit to measuring the clearances with such accuracy? What increments to the shims come in?

The advantage is if you are using mm for say the intake measurements which are .16 +/- .03 (or .13 thru .19) as acceptable gaps... so, if it's .16 on one check and .18 on another you have an idea it 'might' be tighter on the next check or it may not move and stay at .18.

With the inch gaps, you only have one measurement on each side of center so you're either at center or at one end of the other side or out of spec... when doing the next check, you won't be able to spot a trend in the gaps as easily.

In the end, they're either within spec or not... if they aren't, they should be adjusted and you shouldn't miss any valve checks so tracking the 'trend' is more for those that find that data useful and interesting.

 

[bobframe]

Please inform us of the hilarity. I would love to hear what happens.

I am generally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. At least until they show me that they are not trustworthy. At this point I don't have enough evidence to walk away from this dealership...close, but I'm not there yet. They clearly screwed this job up (the documentation part of it at a minimum), but if it's an honest mistake, it is forgivable.

It is entirely possible that the tech found all of the clearances within spec and simply wrote down what the spec is...i.e., he misunderstood or forgot what the mission was. The fact that they are willing to re-do this at no charge and encouraged me to be there and watch it being done speaks volumes to me.

 

[bobframe]

I thought I read that the shims come in .025mm increments. Is this correct?

 

[BakerBoy]

Is there a benefit to measuring the clearances with such accuracy? What increments to the shims come in?

To add to what Joe said... I use .005", .006", and .007" gages, but also then use pairs of thinner ones to find the half-thousands between. For example, if the 0.006" fits and the 0.007" doesn't, I'll pair up a .004" and a .0025" gage (net .0065") and see if that fits. It only helps if you need to replace a shim and can choose to 'center' the clearance in the middle of the spec range with the new shim.

Hot Shims come in increments of 0.05 mm. 1.85mm or 1.90mm thick, for example. Honda shims come in increments of 0.025mm. 1.85mm or 1.875mm thick, for example. So it all depends on what shims you (or your mechanic) has available.

For perspective, 0.001" is the same as 0.025mm...there's not much need to have more precision than that. Therefore my testing for 0.0005" differences is only for the purpose of tracking change over time.

 

[Blrfl]

I can see how .006 fits, .007 doesn't so what's the measurement you write down?.... .006 or .0065?

You write down 0.006 because you don't have any way to accurately measure anything beyond those three places. If the feeler slips in but not as easily as it should, I'll call the measurement "0.006 tight." When you get to the point where 0.008 fits, you're measurably out of spec.

--Mark

 

[bobframe]

Bob. I have also developed a mistrust of dealers and tyre shops. After the last tyre change the mechanic forgot to tighten the right caliper retaining bolts. I discovered the fault a couple of days later as I reversed the bike into the garage at home and the caliper rotated with the disc. One bolt missing and one about to part company with the bike.
I have found, through sites like this and My-Mc, the courage and technical help to do most of the basic maintainence.
Best of luck with the dealer - but I'll stick with the guys on the forum. Thanks to all of them.

Good point. However, I have to ask myself this: Is the dealer mechanic more likely to forget something than I am? Does my motivation to do a thorough/quality bit of work compensate for my lack of training and inexperience? How do I evaluate my buddy's competence and motivation to do a good job when we're together?

I get the point that if we do the work ourselves, then there's less likelihood that we'll intentionally mess something up or skip a step. But you have to factor in my incomplete tool set, my total lack of training and my raw inexperience. These are just as real as the dealer and his tech's indifference.

These comments may unleash aflood of "my dealer screwed me" stories. But there are bound to be a bunch of "my buddy and I screwed this up" experiences as well. I think there are good and bad dealers..and there are good and bad backyard mechanics too. I am trying to be realistic about my skill set.

 

[Britman]

Here's a web site to calculate needed shim sizes.

Just use the form multiple times to get readings for the ST

http://klr650.carguy.org/shims.html

 

[RCS]

How do I evaluate my buddy's competence and motivation to do a good job when we're together?

All you can really do, given your experience, is to confirm the work was done. View the process to make sure the mechanic pulls off the plastic, takes off the valve covers, and inserts the feeler gauges about 16 times.

It is piece of mind given your previous experience with them. Prepare to spend between 4-5 hours watching the procedure from start to finish.

 

[Firstpeke]

The biggest difference between maintenance done by self and that done by a.n.other is that self has a serious vested interest in personal safety......

You may check those bolts two or three times before finishing the job, the fitter at the other location may not double check them at all.......

You certainly would measure every clearance and note the reading diligently for your own records...... you may take a whole weekend to do what a dealer would do in two hours, but I venture to suggest you will be satisfied with your efforts and considerably better off AND the job will have been done to your satisfaction, properly.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

The service manager offered to let me go back and watch the tech take the measurements. Will take him up on his offer tomorrow morning. Should be interesting.

Make sure the engine is overnight cold before taking the measurements.