OP
OP
so it should have a cover???
What to Buy?
- Thread starter FlyingScot
- Start date
Yes.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
There are covers (and a necessary clip) that go in those access holes.
You could probably fix the left one with some sanding and body filler (we call it skim coat).
Also, the PO added the round switch and the BMW socket for heated clothes I would guess.
You need 2 each of 27 and 45 on the diagram -
27 - 77121-MT3-000ZA-MAINTENANCE CAP
45 - 90666-SD4-003 - SNAP FIT CLIP
You could probably fix the left one with some sanding and body filler (we call it skim coat).
Also, the PO added the round switch and the BMW socket for heated clothes I would guess.
You need 2 each of 27 and 45 on the diagram -
27 - 77121-MT3-000ZA-MAINTENANCE CAP
45 - 90666-SD4-003 - SNAP FIT CLIP
Last edited:
I'd be checking all the 1100's out. ABS or not. Don't let a "jewel" get away because it's not a ABS model.
OP
OP
I think the linked brakes are just as important as the ABS and i think you need an ABSII bike to get the linked brakes I have found one I like BUT the owner is playing silly buggers just now and not replying to me the alternative to this ST1100 with ABSII is the ex police ST 1300 sadly in white and i have been quoted £3,000 to repaint it this make the total cost of this (repainted to a sexy colour) bike just too silly for words
ST1100: 1996 or newer.
ST1300: 2008 or newer.
ST1300: 2008 or newer.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
What most folks don't know is that the braking (not the ABS part) is so much improved with the ABSII models.
Their brakes are as good as the ST1300 brakes.
OP
OP
Yes i got that info after some digging, so for me it has to be a ST1100 with ABSII OR an ST1300 very sadly ATM I cannot move forward with the ST1100 near me as the owner is not responding to my messages GRRRRRRRRR!!!
OP
OP
I got some info, and I am now in contact with the owner, I am hopefully going to look at the bike in a few days and make an offer to buy her.
Sadly, it seems the bike was NOT being looked after 'superbly' and has a long list of MOT Fails and advisories going back as far as 2011. With three stupid reasons for failing the MOT test in 2011. Then in 2017 it failed for a worn rear tyre. In 2019 it failed for binding rear brakes (which I believe is a very common ST1100 fault). It seems the PO was not ahead of the game with the maintenance and was waiting for the MOT people to tell what was wrong with the bike (that needed fixed) In 2021 it was again the back brakes (some clown had put the pads in incorrectly) AND the steering bearings were reported as stiff and notchy it passed a few days later with the brake pads installed correctly but still binding and got an advisory for that and the steering bearings. January 2023 as well as a Fail for leaking fork seals. Well AMAZINGLY this Honda ST11 has TWIN REAR DISCS (WOW) and the brakes are again not 100% sorted as it got TWO Advisories Jan 2023
The steering bearings and the fork seals have now been replaced
Jan 2023 Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):
Sadly, it seems the bike was NOT being looked after 'superbly' and has a long list of MOT Fails and advisories going back as far as 2011. With three stupid reasons for failing the MOT test in 2011. Then in 2017 it failed for a worn rear tyre. In 2019 it failed for binding rear brakes (which I believe is a very common ST1100 fault). It seems the PO was not ahead of the game with the maintenance and was waiting for the MOT people to tell what was wrong with the bike (that needed fixed) In 2021 it was again the back brakes (some clown had put the pads in incorrectly) AND the steering bearings were reported as stiff and notchy it passed a few days later with the brake pads installed correctly but still binding and got an advisory for that and the steering bearings. January 2023 as well as a Fail for leaking fork seals. Well AMAZINGLY this Honda ST11 has TWIN REAR DISCS (WOW) and the brakes are again not 100% sorted as it got TWO Advisories Jan 2023
The steering bearings and the fork seals have now been replaced
Jan 2023 Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):
- Front Brake binding but not excessively (1.2.1 (f))
- Nearside Rear Brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened Rear brake disc slightly pitted (1.1.14 (a) (ii)) (NEARSIDE REAR BRAKE DISC mmm I guess the offside one was as good as new)
What are advisories?
Advisories are given for guidance. Some of these may need to be monitored in case they become more serious and need immediate repairs.
- SO I guess I need to overhaul the calipers IF/Once I get her. I think that can be a RPITA on an ABS bike {getting the brakes bled properly} but maybe I don't need to pull the pistons out to make them retract properly (will advise soonest and have a search her for binding brakes as well)
Last edited:
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
TWIN REAR DISCS on a ST1100?
I'd sure like to see a picture of that configuration.
I'd sure like to see a picture of that configuration.
OP
OP
Me too BUT INVISIBLE DISC's DON'T photograph well, not even my NIKON FFDSLR D700/D800 will be able to see and photograph that disc :-( I had the same issue when my yacht was surveyed the clown reported a problem with the PORT ENGINE I DID NOT HAVE a CATAMARAN and the ONE engine was on the centreline of our Bennie 461. Checking the ST1100 parts catalogue, R/H Rear Discs are UNOBTAINABLE NO STOCK ;-) Looks like the SMC is needing a good clean {OUCH SWINE OF A JOB with fun bleeding the system} and the brake system having a good flush out and new fluid put in and then properly bled :-(. FUN and GAMES ahead :-(TWIN REAR DISCS on a ST1100?
I'd sure like to see a picture of that configuration.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Well, you didn't tell me they were invisible - you have to have a special camera for that!
OP
OP
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/browser/manufacturer/honda/bike/st1100a-pan-european/year/2000/country/england/colour/all-colours (lots of nice diagrams here)
WOW just priced up the PARTS ONLY for a total ABSII overhaul (minus the brake pipes as the bike I am going to look at has HEL braided hoses) OUCH!!! a quick £1,800, this does include all the seals for the three calipers and Honda Pads and the repair kits for the three master cylinders and three new discs. The discs alone are £750 for the three so if i can skip replacing all of them {however I think the back disc is going to have to be replaced as it had an MOT advisory at the last test {WELL ONLY THE NEARSIDE REAR BRAKE DISC!!!}} SO it is around a quick £1,000 just to make the brakes work properly (for the last 4 years and 10,000 miles when MOT'd this bike has had advisories for binding front and rear brakes)
Local Honda Dealership says FOUR HOURS work to totally overhaul the brakes. I have not seen their full priced estimate yet, but I would imagine that will cost about £350 for labour alone
Obviously IF I do the work myself there maybe some significant savings, the three caliper repair kits are ONLY £100 and the three master cylinder repair kits are around £350, :-( but then I will still need lots of consumables and tools for sure a good bleeding kit and I think I would want to overhaul the secondary master cylinder {SMC} as it probably is what is causing the problem here BUT then it may only be full of CRUD and sticking on its pivot {TO BE DISCOVERED} {probably do an ultrasound cleaning job on it, IF I have to overhaul it, that should I hope, clean out any brake fluid crud in the small holes}
OUCH lotsa work ahead and a NON ABS bike begins to look rather cheap, AND much easier to maintain {but with inferior brakes {and no ABS}} OR this could/would be a great reason for negotiation of a hopefully BIG price reduction
Obviously these are Genuine Honda parts prices and for the discs EBC discs are much cheaper, about £420.00 for the three so all in all the whole overhaul could be under £1,000 if I don't use genuine Honda discs, still a significant post purchase expenditure.
FUN and GAMES Ahead
WOW just priced up the PARTS ONLY for a total ABSII overhaul (minus the brake pipes as the bike I am going to look at has HEL braided hoses) OUCH!!! a quick £1,800, this does include all the seals for the three calipers and Honda Pads and the repair kits for the three master cylinders and three new discs. The discs alone are £750 for the three so if i can skip replacing all of them {however I think the back disc is going to have to be replaced as it had an MOT advisory at the last test {WELL ONLY THE NEARSIDE REAR BRAKE DISC!!!}} SO it is around a quick £1,000 just to make the brakes work properly (for the last 4 years and 10,000 miles when MOT'd this bike has had advisories for binding front and rear brakes)
Local Honda Dealership says FOUR HOURS work to totally overhaul the brakes. I have not seen their full priced estimate yet, but I would imagine that will cost about £350 for labour alone
Obviously IF I do the work myself there maybe some significant savings, the three caliper repair kits are ONLY £100 and the three master cylinder repair kits are around £350, :-( but then I will still need lots of consumables and tools for sure a good bleeding kit and I think I would want to overhaul the secondary master cylinder {SMC} as it probably is what is causing the problem here BUT then it may only be full of CRUD and sticking on its pivot {TO BE DISCOVERED} {probably do an ultrasound cleaning job on it, IF I have to overhaul it, that should I hope, clean out any brake fluid crud in the small holes}
OUCH lotsa work ahead and a NON ABS bike begins to look rather cheap, AND much easier to maintain {but with inferior brakes {and no ABS}} OR this could/would be a great reason for negotiation of a hopefully BIG price reduction
Obviously these are Genuine Honda parts prices and for the discs EBC discs are much cheaper, about £420.00 for the three so all in all the whole overhaul could be under £1,000 if I don't use genuine Honda discs, still a significant post purchase expenditure.
FUN and GAMES Ahead
OP
OP
WELL HOW DID the MOT INSPECTOR FIND IT!!!!???Well, you didn't tell me they were invisible - you have to have a special camera for that!
You need to go and ride a non ABS ST1100. You will find the brakes are not inferior but quite equal to the task of hauling down your bike from speed. At least that's been my experience.https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/browser/manufacturer/honda/bike/st1100a-pan-european/year/2000/country/england/colour/all-colours (lots of nice diagrams here)
WOW just priced up the PARTS ONLY for a total ABSII overhaul (minus the brake pipes as the bike I am going to look at has HEL braided hoses) OUCH!!! a quick £1,800, this does include all the seals for the three calipers and Honda Pads and the repair kits for the three master cylinders and three new discs. The discs alone are £750 for the three so if i can skip replacing all of them {however I think the back disc is going to have to be replaced as it had an MOT advisory at the last test {WELL ONLY THE NEARSIDE REAR BRAKE DISC!!!}} SO it is around a quick £1,000 just to make the brakes work properly (for the last 4 years and 10,000 miles when MOT'd this bike has had advisories for binding front and rear brakes)
Local Honda Dealership says FOUR HOURS work to totally overhaul the brakes. I have not seen their full priced estimate yet, but I would imagine that will cost about £350 for labour alone
Obviously IF I do the work myself there maybe some significant savings, the three caliper repair kits are ONLY £100 and the three master cylinder repair kits are around £350, :-( but then I will still need lots of consumables and tools for sure a good bleeding kit and I think I would want to overhaul the secondary master cylinder {SMC} as it probably is what is causing the problem here BUT then it may only be full of CRUD and sticking on its pivot {TO BE DISCOVERED} {probably do an ultrasound cleaning job on it, IF I have to overhaul it, that should I hope, clean out any brake fluid crud in the small holes}
OUCH lotsa work ahead and a NON ABS bike begins to look rather cheap, AND much easier to maintain {but with inferior brakes {and no ABS}} OR this could/would be a great reason for negotiation of a hopefully BIG price reduction
Obviously these are Genuine Honda parts prices and for the discs EBC discs are much cheaper, about £420.00 for the three so all in all the whole overhaul could be under £1,000 if I don't use genuine Honda discs, still a significant post purchase expenditure.
FUN and GAMES Ahead
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
He obviously had the special camera I was talking about!
OP
OP
I rode an ST1100 about 20 years ago, I was looking to get another one of my 'old bikes' a Honda 400 FOUR BUT somehow got diverted (a really nice 400Four is £5,000 to £7,000 now) into looking at a nice Pan Euro, maybe to go touring Europe and Scandinavia and of course the west coast of Scotland and the Outer Hebrides
Tomorrow I will go look at this 2001 bike and then probably go look at a 1999 Non ABS bike, I still have a hankering for a nice ST1300 but have not as yet managed to go look at the one that is nearest to me. I do not remember anything bad about the ST1100 apart from the saddle height, and I can fix that two ways, one with a lower OEM saddle and two by wearing the Daytona boots.
Coming from the Honda 400 Four to two Honda VFR750 G models on which I did a total nut and bolt restoration on, the Ducati M696 was a lumpy bumpy thing at low revs around town, and you needed to be in one of the lower gears all the time, and with Termingoni UNsilencers that was not quiet progress. So being really a four cylinder motorcyclist the ST1100 and ST1300 appeal a lot
BUT if I can have better brakes, coupled brakes and ABS then why not go for a more modern braking system hoping of course that I never need to call on its performance.
I think you've answered the question you asked already? Cost and downtime.
The non ABS 11's stop just fine with the oem pads in. But it's your call. It's essential to change the rear fluid every year or so.
And the SMC will probably need service or replacement. More cost!
It adds up.
Upt.
OP
OP
QUESTION (s) Did ST1100's with ABS only have two piston calipers (SILVER ONES) and it was only the ABSII bikes that have three piston calipers (GREY COLOURED ONES ) with the SMC hiding behind a plastic cover on the L/H fork to provide the linked braking. SO I can recognise ABSII bikes easily from a picture of either side of the front as both sides have three piston grey calipers, but to identify an ABS bike I need to see the L/H/S grey top cover to see the ABS and TCS switches. OR the idiot lights on the dash, as there will be an ABS light and (maybe) ? a TCS light?
Also does an ABSII bike still have traction control?
Also does an ABSII bike still have traction control?
Last edited:
OP
OP
Are you saying that EBC pads are good in a NON ABS bike and in an ABS bike BUT NOT in a ABSII bike???
ALSO I think the ABSII brake system mixes the brake fluid in the SMC so there is no real front and back brake fluid, unlike a non ABS bike that has two completely independent and separate brake line circuits.
I looks like the SMC needs to be kept clean and road crud kept out as well as the brake fluid needing replaced every year or so as it has some very tiny transfer holes that can block up easily
Until I am doing 5,000 miles a year in all weathers, I do not see that as a problem, simply a known maintenance issue.