Odie1
Site Supporter
Ok..... I will try and be brief, but have a lot of info....but I will get to my questions!
I have a 96, ST1100 standard, just under 60K miles, fuel cut-off diaphragm removed....
About a year ago I had what I thought was the classic sign of a fuel pump beginning to fail... After running many miles at highway speed, made
a brief stop, did NOT add fuel (tank was close to empty... light just starting to flicker), and after getting back on the road about a mile,
the bike died....as if it had no fuel. Got a lift home (not too far - thankfully) and a day later when I checked, the fuel pump spit out fuel
and the bike ran just fine. Since that time, I have never let the tank get very far below half full, and have never had another issue. I have
also not run extended periods at what I would call highway speeds.
After this experience, I decided I really didn't want to be stranded beside the road, again, so I purchased and installed an external Facet
fuel pump and mounted it where the fuel cut-off diaphragm used to be. I had extra hoses in place where I could easily remove and replug two
hose ends, disconnect the wires to the factory pump and connect the Facet wiring to them, and be on my way (..as I have seen many others do on
this site!... that's where I got the idea...)...in theory anyway.....
I did take a few rides using the Facet pump... for an hour or so each....and had no issues, so I thought all was well. NOW - I do not believe
I ever did a true test where I started the bike using the original fuel pump.... unplugging the wiring so that the carbs would all run dry, and
THEN connecting up the Facet, and trying to restart.... more on that later....
So, Monday, I got a day off work, and headed for some new roads in SW Missouri and NW Arkansas. All I can saw is...WOW!... If you have never
been there - you need to go. I rode just a shade under 500 miles, lots of twists and turns, several stops, just a wonderful day.
In the middle of the ride, I took about a 40 mile stretch on interstate.... running 70+ MPH, while the fuel did drop well below half, and at
the end of that stint, I had gone nearly 225 miles on that tank, I pulled off and got fuel...no issues. On the last leg of the trip, just
about home, I decided to take a toll road and again rode about 40 miles at highway speeds - 70+ - this time the tank had more fuel in it... had
only traveled 100 miles since the last fuel stop... and just at the end of the toll road, that sickening feeling... bike seems to be running
rough.... roll on the throttle and nothing.... bummer...
Coast to the side of the road and think to myself, "I am prepared for this, bring it on!". Thankfully, the Lord once again provided just about
the ideal safe spot to break down in. So, off comes the seat and faux tank cover, and sure enough... fuel filter is bone dry. Thinking I knew
what the issue was, I did not take a second to see if I could hear the factory fuel pump cycle on...I should have.. I then replumbed the
hoses, connect the wires to Facet, and start flipping the run switch off and on to cycle the pump...I can definitely hear it running. I think
I see some fuel come up in to the filter, its not clear but white plastic, so I am not positive. After a bit of this, I turn the motor over a
few times and she fires... woohoo!. Running kind of rough, but I figure its just that all the float bowls must not be totally full. Shut it
off and button everything back up and put all the tools away... gear back on and away I go....
For about half a mile....
Dies again - same symptoms. Pull over... strip off seat and tank cover, and again - fuel filter bone dry..??? Fuel pump runs when key or
switch is toggled. I disconnected the output of the pump, but there is nothing coming out...and when I say the pump is running, it runs for a
second or two at a time, as I cycle the on off switch.... I really cannot remember if while I had the output disconnected I tried turning the
motor over for several seconds... thus keeping the fuel pump running... Also... I DID remove the gas cap in case there was some horrific
pressure build up. No woosh when I took it off, and it made no differnce to the fuel pump.
Its starting to get dark (note to self - ADD A FLASHLIGHT TO THE EMERGENCY BREAKDOWN KIT!) so I make the call.... My son gets the truck and
will be here in 20 - 25 minutes.
As I wait, I play.... now I know this is REALLY subjective, but I tried to draw fuel from the tank using myself as the pump.... using lips
only... I have heard too may horror stories of people inhaling gasoline. I was able to draw out some fuel, but it felt like I was trying to
drink a really thick milkshake. This was with no filter, pump ect... only a short piece of rubber hose connected to the metal tube from the
tank. And again - the gas cap was off.
So, at home the next day, again I play. Remove output of Facet...cycle engine switch, hear pump run... nothing. I removed the hose from fuel
tank inlet, add a short piece of hose, and drop it into a 5 gallon gas can.... full. Toggle the engine switch.... nothing?!?! NOW - again in
all fairness... I don't THINK I ever turned the engine over with the starter, keeping the fuel pump running for more than a couple of seconds
with the input hose in the can of gas..
I re-connect a hose to the fuel tank, re-connect the wiring to the internal fuel pump, turn the key... and as expected, out comes fuel. Re-
plumb all the connections, and the bike fires up runs like a champ. Factory fuel pump has cooled off and acting as normal.
So, I play with the Facet... with the input still in the gas can, I jump the leads to the battery.... and after a few seconds, it's pumping gas
all over the place.... well - at least into the catch bucket I have....
Also, AFTER the factory fuel pump had cycled and pumped gas, I played again and used myself as the pump. And it seems that now the fuel is
much easier to draw out of the tank. Can I be sure, or can I quantify it?... no.... but definitely SEEMS to be freer flowing... I wish I had tried BEFORE
cycling the factory pump.
OK - so now I have some testing to do, but was also wondering if anyone might know some of the answers up front.
1. Has anyone ever had a fuel pump failure where it has "locked" up and prevented fuel from (easily) being drawn from the tank ? I do believe I
will be pulling the pump and looking for obstructions as another check.
2. Regarding the Facet pump... with my extra "plumbing" in place, I have nearly two feet of hose from the input of the pump to the tank. Is it
possible that with the way the ST's fuel cutoff relay works - cycling the pump only a couple of seconds at a time BEFORE the engine starts -
that it might never draw fuel into the pump, since the fuel might drain back down the hose each time the pump shuts off? I know the Facet has
some type of "back-flow prevention" so you cant leave the pump in-line when not in use, but would that keep fuel from flowing back out the
input?. I almost discount this since while I had the pump wired up and in-line, I ran down the road half a mile or so... so, nearly a minute
maybe? I would also think you could just turn the engine over for 30 seconds or so and that SHOULD be enough time to get fuel to the carbs...
And as always - please point out if I am missing the forest for the trees.... I would really like to get this sorted out. Makes me a little
more worrisome when heading out on the road....
Odie1
I have a 96, ST1100 standard, just under 60K miles, fuel cut-off diaphragm removed....
About a year ago I had what I thought was the classic sign of a fuel pump beginning to fail... After running many miles at highway speed, made
a brief stop, did NOT add fuel (tank was close to empty... light just starting to flicker), and after getting back on the road about a mile,
the bike died....as if it had no fuel. Got a lift home (not too far - thankfully) and a day later when I checked, the fuel pump spit out fuel
and the bike ran just fine. Since that time, I have never let the tank get very far below half full, and have never had another issue. I have
also not run extended periods at what I would call highway speeds.
After this experience, I decided I really didn't want to be stranded beside the road, again, so I purchased and installed an external Facet
fuel pump and mounted it where the fuel cut-off diaphragm used to be. I had extra hoses in place where I could easily remove and replug two
hose ends, disconnect the wires to the factory pump and connect the Facet wiring to them, and be on my way (..as I have seen many others do on
this site!... that's where I got the idea...)...in theory anyway.....
I did take a few rides using the Facet pump... for an hour or so each....and had no issues, so I thought all was well. NOW - I do not believe
I ever did a true test where I started the bike using the original fuel pump.... unplugging the wiring so that the carbs would all run dry, and
THEN connecting up the Facet, and trying to restart.... more on that later....
So, Monday, I got a day off work, and headed for some new roads in SW Missouri and NW Arkansas. All I can saw is...WOW!... If you have never
been there - you need to go. I rode just a shade under 500 miles, lots of twists and turns, several stops, just a wonderful day.
In the middle of the ride, I took about a 40 mile stretch on interstate.... running 70+ MPH, while the fuel did drop well below half, and at
the end of that stint, I had gone nearly 225 miles on that tank, I pulled off and got fuel...no issues. On the last leg of the trip, just
about home, I decided to take a toll road and again rode about 40 miles at highway speeds - 70+ - this time the tank had more fuel in it... had
only traveled 100 miles since the last fuel stop... and just at the end of the toll road, that sickening feeling... bike seems to be running
rough.... roll on the throttle and nothing.... bummer...
Coast to the side of the road and think to myself, "I am prepared for this, bring it on!". Thankfully, the Lord once again provided just about
the ideal safe spot to break down in. So, off comes the seat and faux tank cover, and sure enough... fuel filter is bone dry. Thinking I knew
what the issue was, I did not take a second to see if I could hear the factory fuel pump cycle on...I should have.. I then replumbed the
hoses, connect the wires to Facet, and start flipping the run switch off and on to cycle the pump...I can definitely hear it running. I think
I see some fuel come up in to the filter, its not clear but white plastic, so I am not positive. After a bit of this, I turn the motor over a
few times and she fires... woohoo!. Running kind of rough, but I figure its just that all the float bowls must not be totally full. Shut it
off and button everything back up and put all the tools away... gear back on and away I go....
For about half a mile....
Dies again - same symptoms. Pull over... strip off seat and tank cover, and again - fuel filter bone dry..??? Fuel pump runs when key or
switch is toggled. I disconnected the output of the pump, but there is nothing coming out...and when I say the pump is running, it runs for a
second or two at a time, as I cycle the on off switch.... I really cannot remember if while I had the output disconnected I tried turning the
motor over for several seconds... thus keeping the fuel pump running... Also... I DID remove the gas cap in case there was some horrific
pressure build up. No woosh when I took it off, and it made no differnce to the fuel pump.
Its starting to get dark (note to self - ADD A FLASHLIGHT TO THE EMERGENCY BREAKDOWN KIT!) so I make the call.... My son gets the truck and
will be here in 20 - 25 minutes.
As I wait, I play.... now I know this is REALLY subjective, but I tried to draw fuel from the tank using myself as the pump.... using lips
only... I have heard too may horror stories of people inhaling gasoline. I was able to draw out some fuel, but it felt like I was trying to
drink a really thick milkshake. This was with no filter, pump ect... only a short piece of rubber hose connected to the metal tube from the
tank. And again - the gas cap was off.
So, at home the next day, again I play. Remove output of Facet...cycle engine switch, hear pump run... nothing. I removed the hose from fuel
tank inlet, add a short piece of hose, and drop it into a 5 gallon gas can.... full. Toggle the engine switch.... nothing?!?! NOW - again in
all fairness... I don't THINK I ever turned the engine over with the starter, keeping the fuel pump running for more than a couple of seconds
with the input hose in the can of gas..
I re-connect a hose to the fuel tank, re-connect the wiring to the internal fuel pump, turn the key... and as expected, out comes fuel. Re-
plumb all the connections, and the bike fires up runs like a champ. Factory fuel pump has cooled off and acting as normal.
So, I play with the Facet... with the input still in the gas can, I jump the leads to the battery.... and after a few seconds, it's pumping gas
all over the place.... well - at least into the catch bucket I have....
Also, AFTER the factory fuel pump had cycled and pumped gas, I played again and used myself as the pump. And it seems that now the fuel is
much easier to draw out of the tank. Can I be sure, or can I quantify it?... no.... but definitely SEEMS to be freer flowing... I wish I had tried BEFORE
cycling the factory pump.
OK - so now I have some testing to do, but was also wondering if anyone might know some of the answers up front.
1. Has anyone ever had a fuel pump failure where it has "locked" up and prevented fuel from (easily) being drawn from the tank ? I do believe I
will be pulling the pump and looking for obstructions as another check.
2. Regarding the Facet pump... with my extra "plumbing" in place, I have nearly two feet of hose from the input of the pump to the tank. Is it
possible that with the way the ST's fuel cutoff relay works - cycling the pump only a couple of seconds at a time BEFORE the engine starts -
that it might never draw fuel into the pump, since the fuel might drain back down the hose each time the pump shuts off? I know the Facet has
some type of "back-flow prevention" so you cant leave the pump in-line when not in use, but would that keep fuel from flowing back out the
input?. I almost discount this since while I had the pump wired up and in-line, I ran down the road half a mile or so... so, nearly a minute
maybe? I would also think you could just turn the engine over for 30 seconds or so and that SHOULD be enough time to get fuel to the carbs...
And as always - please point out if I am missing the forest for the trees.... I would really like to get this sorted out. Makes me a little
more worrisome when heading out on the road....
Odie1