Key Won't Turn Ignition Anymore

Old Ninja

Old Ninja

Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
73
Location
Encino, CA
Thanks to Dave and Steve who helped yesterday when I was stranded after lunch with a key that won't turn my ignition any more. It's the strangest thing...

Key is in good condition and, in fact, this is a new ignition that was replaced a little over two years ago due to strange electrical issues. In retrospect, I probably didn't need a new ignition back then and it was probably only the ground problem I had that was subsequently fixed. The dealer will probably say, "replace the ignition" again.

So, both keys are in seemingly good shape, they go in normally, but it's as if it's the wrong key. I've looked a few times to make sure I'm on the right bike, but it is. Even the spare key has the same issue. Keys go in, but won't turn. They wiggle a bit, and believe me, I've been wiggling them carefully and otherwise for hours now.

I tried some graphite-based lubricant today. 3-in-1 Lock Dry Lubricant was recommended by a local locksmith, but that hasn't worked yet. I guess I have to get a mobile locksmith out. And that won't be cheap.

I read on a thread here of someone having a similar problem once, but taking my ignition apart in any fashion is way beyond anything I'm going to attempt.

Appreciate any advice!
 
Depending on how the key was cut (and the dupes too), you might try pulling the key slightly out of the lock while trying to turn it. I assume (not a good idea) that your handlebars are not locked and there is no pressure on the pin. This would be the same situation as a car steering wheel being turned and you cannot turn the ignition key until you put pressure on the steering wheel to ease pressure on the lock. Anyway, I put my thumb on the lock and gently pull the key back a hair - and I really mean a hair - only a few thousandths or hundredths of an inch will do it sometimes. This is a result of the key not being completely in the correct position when the new key is cut.

I'm not bragging, but I seem to have more patience for this kind of playing with locks than other people and have been able to make some keys work when the owner was ready to throw them out. It doesn't always work, but its worth a shot.
 
SMSW said:
I assume (not a good idea) that your handlebars are not locked and there is no pressure on the pin...

I'm not bragging, but I seem to have more patience for this kind of playing with locks than other people and have been able to make some keys work when the owner was ready to throw them out. It doesn't always work, but its worth a shot.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're correct not to assume with someone like me... Some one with a little knowledge. You know what they call us? Dangerous! But no, the handlebars are not locked (fortunately).

You're also right that you might have more patience than me, so I will try some more patient, careful, and pulling back a hair, wiggling. BTW, these are the two original keys that came with this new-from-Japan OEM ignition approximately two years ago.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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Old Ninja said:
I guess I have to get a mobile locksmith out. And that won't be cheap.

I read on a thread here of someone having a similar problem once, but taking my ignition apart in any fashion is way beyond anything I'm going to attempt.

Appreciate any advice!
Click to expand...

I think you only have to pull the top triple clamp off the forks/stem and then remove the old ignition switch from the clamp by loosening two torx screws underneath the clamp. Never did it on a 1300 but that's typically how they're mounted. A new OEM ignition switch assembly complete with the electrical connector looks like $82 online, I'm guessing that's less than a mobile locksmith.
 
dwalby said:
I think you only have to pull the top triple clamp off the forks/stem and then remove the old ignition switch from the clamp by loosening two torx screws underneath the clamp. Never did it on a 1300 but that's typically how they're mounted. A new OEM ignition switch assembly complete with the electrical connector looks like $82 online, I'm guessing that's less than a mobile locksmith.
Click to expand...

So, I'll tell you the rest of this story, because it's kind of funny/sad...

I had replaced this ignition approximately two years ago, with that $82 online part you described, although I had my local dealer install it. The dealer ordered the ignition and because they said it would take two weeks to come from Japan, I purchased a used one online. But the seller sent it to the wrong address and by the time I finally got the used one, the new one arrived and the dealer had installed it. I kept this used one though, just in case.

So, I have this used ignition right here in my hand, but the story continues...

Two years ago, when the used ignition arrived, I opened the package and the seller sent me a gas cap, too. That way the same key would open both was the idea. Cool, I thought. It only came with one key and I tried it in the ignition I was holding and it worked fine. Then I tried it in the gas cap. Big mistake because the key has been stuck in there ever since and I've never been able to get it out. I'm not making this up. How does this happen to me. Sheesh!

I'm glad I held on to this used ignition, but it's really taunting me since I can't even use it while the only key is stuck in it's old gas cap. I've tried everything to get it out.

Bottom line? One new, two year-old ignition installed on my bike now won't accept either of the two original keys. Also, one used ignition, but with it's only key stuck in the used matching gas cap.

This is kind of ridiculous and I'm starting to take it personally... ;)
 
And it was Larry from here on the forum who called me yesterday while I was out stuck. I don't know where I got "Steve" from in the original post on this thread. I'm old and losin' it. I guess...
 
Sorry to hear of the hassle you're having with the ignition, curious to know though what's wrong with locking the steering? I always do when I park the bike anywhere away from home.
 
Usually when keys don't work, the lock is gummed up/dirty and the tumblers won't move freely. As the key goes in, the tumblers get pushed but may not return to home in on the proper detent on the key. A good flushing or two with WD40 to wash out old lube/dirt/graphite will usually free them up. Then I lube with a lock deicer that has a small amount of lube in it which will be taken to where it needs to be by the solvent. Repeat once or twice a year, you'll be good to go. In the case of your gas cap, probably there was no lube and a slight corrosion may have taken place with the tumblers. All I can say there is soak it/lock deicer/WD40/Liquid Wrench/PB Blaster.
 
SMSW said:
Depending on how the key was cut (and the dupes too), you might try pulling the key slightly out of the lock while trying to turn it
Click to expand...

Likewise .... sometimes a bit of crud gets carried into the bottom of the lock keeping the key(s) from seating properly. Try inserting the key and tapping it into the lock while applying light rotational pressure. Don't use a lot of force. Just something akin to a tap with the handle of a screwdriver while holding the shaft. The shock of the tap might just free up a stuck tumbler too. Same goes for the gas cap.
 
Before you start calling locksmiths, call your buddy David. A while back, I instructed him on how to remove/replace, the lock/tumblers, out of the gas cap assembly. He should be able to remove the assembly from the gas cap, and free your only key for you.
That should solve your only key issue for the spare ignition. I also talked him through the cleaning, lubricating, and greasing of the tumblers in the ignition. Unless the key was cut wrong, there's not too much inside the ignition that can break unless you took it apart and didn't put it back together wrong, or have been forcing it due to miss-aligned fork/yoke tube alignment issues that has pressure on the locking pin etc.
Follow the instructions of RaYzerman, and take a needle oiler or red tube nozzle, and spray the ignition and let the oil soak for a while, then blast it a couple times with compressed air, then repeat. This should free up the tumblers/crap inside the ignition if it is just dirty. Then be sure to re-lube the lock.
You may also check the condition of the keys, to see if the chrome is flaking off and exposing brass (this would mean the flakes inside the lock may be an issue). Don't use the Honda keys, have a couple spare keys cut (use key code tab) and keep the Honda ones for a pattern to make keys.
Now get on your :call: and wake Dave up.
Good luck.

Note: When/if you decide to remove the ignition from the bike, you will NEED to order a couple of the bolts that hold it in place, as these are SPECIAL anti theft type fasteners, which you will have to damage to remove, then replace with new ones. They are not torx heads.
 
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Igofar said:
Now get on your :call: and wake Dave up.
Good luck.

Note: When/if you decide to remove the ignition from the bike, you will NEED to order a couple of the bolts that hold it in place, as these are SPECIAL anti theft type fasteners, which you will have to damage to remove, then replace with new ones. They are not torx heads.
Click to expand...

Copy that! He's already messaged me!!

And got it on the new bolts. Thanks.
 
Old Ninja said:
This is kind of ridiculous and I'm starting to take it personally... ;)
Click to expand...
Don't take it personally. The key doesn't care whose lock will not turn.

Igofar said:
Don't use the Honda keys, have a couple spare keys cut (use key code tab) and keep the Honda ones for a pattern to make keys.
Click to expand...

When a locksmith or dealer uses the key codes, they will often use a 'nibbler' to bite out the appropriate 'V' shaped groove in the key for each pin. If the machine is in good condition, this is more accurate than tracing an existing key and cutting a new one with a burr wheel. If you ask a locksmith to cut the key using a key code, he will likely use an expensive micrometer type cutting machine that is as good as the 'nibbler' type. Your choice, but as Larry said, save this accurately cut key to make dupes.
 
SMSW said:
When a locksmith or dealer uses the key codes...
Click to expand...

Thank you! All good info!

One bit of good news... Spoke to Dave here on the forum again over the phone just now and we released the key to my spare part ignition from its matching gas cap. Yeah! It was simple, of course, and I knew it would be. I was trying to push and pull on the large pins, marked by the red arrows, but it was simply pushing down, as in the below picture, on the black gasket ring, marked by the green arrow, and the two bars (red arrows) popped out and the key dropped out in my hand. That felt real good. Now to get my bike started with one or another of these ignitions, or hot wire it, and get myself over to Dave's to get the key on the installed ignition working again. Worst case scenario, we'll use this extra ignition and just replace the mystery problem. Thanks, Dave! You're the best, buddy!!

ST1300 Gas Cap.jpg
 
Alright, more good news... Ignition switch now turns freely and normally. I guess it was just gummed up, but boy, it must have really been gummed up.

I shot it good yesterday with dry lubricant, but did not use compressed air. I was a little hesitant to blow compressed air into the ignition switch yesterday without checking with you guys first. The switch felt no different after application and didn't turn even after a few hours last night.

However, tonight, the lubricant must have fully worked it's way through the switch because when I went downstairs with my compressed air and extension cord (I live in a stupid apartment with a below, covered garage), I tried the switch first and, son-of-a-bacon, it worked flawlessly. Had to be just gummed up.

Sheesh! Dry lubricant. Another item to throw in my emergency gear in my saddlebag, I guess...

Thanks to all. You folks are all amazing. Especially Dave and Larry. You guys are golden.

Now for some bacon...IMG_4045.jpg
 
Be careful with the solid lubricant. I once put too much in, it packed down and would not let me insert the key all the way. Alternating blasts of WD-40 and compressed air finally cleared it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
wjbertrand said:
Be careful with the solid lubricant. I once put too much in, it packed down and would not let me insert the key all the way. Alternating blasts of WD-40 and compressed air finally cleared it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

:plus1:
Read this a couple more times Ninja Dude....dry lube packs into tight places, even in moderation, you could just be adding more stuff on top of the crap already in there! Flush with solvent, blow with air....now say it....Flush with solvent, blow with air :rofl1:
 
Igofar said:
:plus1:
Read this a couple more times Ninja Dude....dry lube packs into tight places, even in moderation, you could just be adding more stuff on top of the crap already in there! Flush with solvent, blow with air....now say it....Flush with solvent, blow with air :rofl1:
Click to expand...

Just blew some compressed air in there (I'd already lugged everything down...), but didn't spray any WD-40. I keep hearing how it attracts stuff, but that's what the air is for, isn't it? Going back down... Sigh... :)
 
Old Ninja said:
Just blew some compressed air in there (I'd already lugged everything down...), but didn't spray any WD-40. I keep hearing how it attracts stuff, but that's what the air is for, isn't it? Going back down... Sigh... :)
Click to expand...

Again....Flush with solvent, blow with air....Flush with solvent, blow with air....and never question the ST-Whisperer :rofl1: :well1:
 
Old Ninja said:
Just blew some compressed air in there (I'd already lugged everything down...), but didn't spray any WD-40. I keep hearing how it attracts stuff, but that's what the air is for, isn't it? Going back down... Sigh... :)
Click to expand...

WD-40 is a lubricant with evaporative solvents. Once the solvents evaporate, what remains is basically slightly thick oil. A single application of WD-40 doesn't seem problematic, but repeated applications could possibly build up and get gummy.
 
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