New to a ST1300, can't get used to the throttle!

[dduelin]

Trail braking means continuing to apply braking power while entering and during the early portion of a turn. It's properly done with the front brake. It's a technique for gaining an advantage in a turn by managing a high entry speed by decreasing the turn radius late by decreasing speed, distributing weight forward to offset rise from applying the throttle in the turn, sharpening the steering geometry by compressing the forks, and placing more weight on the front end (which is generally good as long as you don't overload the tire's adhesion). It's not really recommended for street riding because sharing your traction with deceleration and change of direction forces at the same time injects unnecessary risk into the equation. If you ham fist it or happen upon an undetected hazard, you are more likely to go down because the traction forces are split. On a track, you are less likely to come across those hazards and more likely to be able to practice without oncoming traffic, telephone poles, etc.

Trail braking with the rear wheel is more about rear wheel steering by inducing a slide. Rear braking tends to stand the bike up whereas front braking tends to make it want to lean in.

Typical cornering involves having all the braking done before entry and being on the gas when you initiate the turn and accelerating throughout the turn.

This is Nick Ienatsch why believes trail braking is a good skill to develop for street riding and I agree. It's allowed me to be a better rider and safer on the street because of the options it leaves me for the unexpected .......... that which we should expect and train for.

"The term trail braking refers to the practice of trailing some front-brake pressure into the corner. Or you can think of trailing off the brakes as you apply lean angle. There are two extremely important reasons to trail your brakes into the corner, but before we get to that, understand that the majority of your braking should be done before you tip your bike into the corner. Don’t get confused and believe that you are going to add brake pressure as you add lean angle. Just the opposite: you want to give away brake pressure as you add lean angle because your front tire can only handle so much combined braking and lean angle. I explain it with a 100-point chart in my book Sport Riding Techniques, writing about a front tire that has 100 total points of traction divisible between braking and cornering. As we add lean-angle points, we give away braking points. I’ve heard of riders believing that trail braking means running into the corner and then going to the brakes. There are some corners with that type of layout, but most corners require brake application well before turn-in. I think the point will become clear as we delve into why we want to trail brake.


We want to trail brake to control our speed closer to the slowest point of the corner. The closer we get to that point, the easier it is to judge whether we’re going too fast or too slow. If your style is to let go of the brakes before turning into the corner, understand that you’re giving up on your best speed control (the front brake) and hoping that your pre-turn-in braking was sufficient to get your speed correct at the slowest point in the corner. If you get in too slow, this is no big deal. The problem comes when the rider’s upright braking doesn’t shed the required speed and suddenly the rider is relying on lean angle to make it through the surprisingly tight turn. Or to get under the gravel patch. Or to the right of the Chevy pickup halfway in his/her lane.


We don’t crash on perfect days with perfect pavement and perfect tires. We crash when something unexpected crops up. The gravel, the truck in your lane, the water across the road mid-corner. If you’ve entered the corner with no brakes, then you’ve basically reduced your options to attempting to reapply the brakes when you see the unexpected surprise, adding lean angle, or standing the bike up and running off the road. You need to make a habit of turning into corners with just a little brake pressure because the unexpected is much easier to deal with if your brake pads are already squeezing your discs. You will be in control of your speed and as your speed drops, your bike will be able to carve a tighter radius at the same lean angle."

 

[ad.hom]

I changed my original post to suggest using a lower gear, not a higher gear, to keep the RPMs high enough to not need to close the throttle completely to get some engine braking, as well as easier transition to accelerating out of the curve.

If you're slipping the clutch, you're "artificially" keeping the RPMs up anyway. My suggestion is geared (pardon the pun) toward not needing to close the throttle completely when entering a curve, so it's not being opened from fully closed.

There is a roundabout on my regular commute, where I'm turning 90 degrees right and the road surface is horrendous.

Coming up to the "give way" line, I've almost scrubbed off all speed. If I have to stop for traffic, then I'm at a dead stop, foot down, 1st gear. I set off, and there's maybe 2 bike lengths until the 90degree right... by that time I can get to 2nd comfortably & close the throttle again & ride the clutch. Around the bend & open the throttle slipping the clutch a little.

Works for me, and I've not found a comfortable way to stay in 1st & slip the clutch at higher RPM (even if only a few hundred RPM higher). Maybe that's just me.

 

[OkieRider]

It's a good skill. If the current thing is to do it on the road, I'm sure there are a lot of people doing it without landing on the pavement. I do it sometimes, but I learned it on the track and got a lot of practice before I did it on the street. You raise a good point and I can't argue with having as many tools in your toolbox as possible so you can respond to the unexpected, but in the big scheme of things, it seems to me basic cornering and developing good judgment are higher on the list than trail braking on the street.

 

[Larry Fine]

Typical cornering involves having all the braking done before entry and being on the gas when you initiate the turn and accelerating throughout the turn.

That's what I've always done, which my mention of a lower gear works well with. The higher RPMs allow more control with the throttle, especially when attempting precise control of gentle acceleration.

 

[Larry Fine]

Works for me, and I've not found a comfortable way to stay in 1st & slip the clutch at higher RPM (even if only a few hundred RPM higher). Maybe that's just me.

I'm suggesting trying it using first gear, but with no clutch slipping (as long as you're going fast enough, of course.)

Accelerating or decelerating, use the throttle more and the brakes less, especially at speed.

What seems like too-low a gear going into a turn (where you're not accelerating yet) seems just right once it's time to start accelerating again.

 

[dduelin]

It's a good skill. If the current thing is to do it on the road, I'm sure there are a lot of people doing it without landing on the pavement. I do it sometimes, but I learned it on the track and got a lot of practice before I did it on the street. You raise a good point and I can't argue with having as many tools in your toolbox as possible so you can respond to the unexpected, but in the big scheme of things, it seems to me basic cornering and developing good judgment are higher on the list than trail braking on the street.

Advanced skills can only be learned, or maybe should be said only learned, after the basic skills are mastered. Basic cornering and good judgement absolutely do come first.

This forum has a trail braking thread now and then and usually someone brings up that because of the ST1300 has linked brakes it is impossible to use only the front brake for trail braking. Myself I never had a problem with using the front lever only and still getting a little rear brake. The system is so well proportioned and transparent in use that what little rear brake from the front-to-rear linkage that is applied only seems to settle the suspension better than front alone.

 

[Walleye]

Trail braking means continuing to apply braking power while entering and during the early portion of a turn. It's properly done with the front brake. It's a technique for gaining an advantage in a turn by managing a high entry speed by decreasing the turn radius late by decreasing speed, distributing weight forward to offset rise from applying the throttle in the turn, sharpening the steering geometry by compressing the forks, and placing more weight on the front end (which is generally good as long as you don't overload the tire's adhesion). It's not really recommended for street riding because sharing your traction with deceleration and change of direction forces at the same time injects unnecessary risk into the equation. If you ham fist it or happen upon an undetected hazard, you are more likely to go down because the traction forces are split. On a track, you are less likely to come across those hazards and more likely to be able to practice without oncoming traffic, telephone poles, etc.

Trail braking with the rear wheel is more about rear wheel steering by inducing a slide. Rear braking tends to stand the bike up whereas front braking tends to make it want to lean in.

Typical cornering involves having all the braking done before entry and being on the gas when you initiate the turn and accelerating throughout the turn.

Ok Okie, now we know your true identity, you're really Kieth Code aren't you.

 

[OkieRider]

Ok Okie, now we know your true identity, you're really Kieth Code aren't you.

Lol no but I studied his materials hard starting when I began sport riding. I still have the books and probably also a VHS lol

 

[OkieRider]

[…] The system is so well proportioned and transparent in use that what little rear brake from the front-to-rear linkage that is applied only seems to settle the suspension better than front alone.

There's a technique to do that without linked. When linked breaking first came out, a lot of people were talking about how to disable it. I have considered that as a possibility but was determined to try it, first. I'm surprised out how transparent it really is.

 

[dduelin]

Lol no but I studied his materials hard starting when I began sport riding. I still have the books and probably also a VHS lol

Same here for Code's books. No VHS, mine was a pirated DVD.

Lee Parks and Nick Ienatsch focus on adapting high performance skills to better street riding. Code was 99% track focused.

 

[Raymond83]

I changed my original post to suggest using a lower gear, not a higher gear, to keep the RPMs high enough to not need to close the throttle completely to get some engine braking, as well as easier transition to accelerating out of the curve.

If you're slipping the clutch, you're "artificially" keeping the RPMs up anyway. My suggestion is geared (pardon the pun) toward not needing to close the throttle completely when entering a curve, so it's not being opened from fully closed.

Every single reply to this post has been helpful.... even the "ya" post.
I do ride the powerband, I've never had a motorcycle that I've needed to think twice about expecting the machine to do what it should. A motorcycles limitations based on type, tires, etc. etc. not withstanding, all have worked as expected. That said, this is the first fuel injected motorcycle that I've owned. I am pushing 50, have been riding motorcycles since I was 5, licensed motorcycle driver since 15.5 (permit , till 16, lol). I can and have adapted to a motorcycles limitations, but this is a first. I know I can train myself as many of you have to get a workaround, but such a long history has made my instinct somewhat ingrained, and I'd be fighting against that. For 80 dollars, I think the G2 throttle tamer sounds like a good investment, as is the time involved in adjusting the cables to perfection. Sure would be nice if there was an ECM fix as well, to just put it to "normal" but I'll work with what we got! the ST1300 is a sweet bike, great power, comfort (except for the sergeant seat that does not work with my buttocks), and nice style! I don't like that I have to have the key to open the bags, that sucks, I prefer to leave them unlocked, but... that's petty.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's input on this, very fun to read all of these ideas.

Ray
p.s. I probably should have mentioned that the motorcycle is a 2004.

 

[Raymond83]

Try completing all braking and getting back onto the throttle before you initiate the turn. Stay on the gas throughout the turn (ideally, accelerate throughout the turn).

if I can see through the turn, this would be normal... ish. The problem is blind turns.

 

[Larry Fine]

That said, this is the first fuel injected motorcycle that I've owned.

I don't like that I have to have the key to open the bags, that sucks, I prefer to leave them unlocked, but... that's petty.

Sounds to me like you'd love an ST1100.

 

[OkieRider]

if I can see through the turn, this would be normal... ish. The problem is blind turns.

We all get caught out from time to time with a lapse in concentration or judgment but, aside from that, a blind turn is normally where I'm playing it safe. Once I can see the exit, it's "cya" time. Of course, if there's a risk taker far enough in front of me but close enough to watch, I'm not above taking advantage of the advanced warning system.

 

[Raymond83]

Sounds to me like you'd love an ST1100.

I came from a Kawasaki concours 1000. My options were, sport touring wise, either the Kawasaki C14, or the ST1300, and a great deal from a friend fell in my lap for the Honda. I'm essentially looking for something with the same sportiness (or more) and a boost in HP. I want the last bike I'll need for quite some time. On occasion, if I'm lucky, I ride 2 up, so it has to be comfy for that situation too. I also have a couple early 80's honda CBX inline 6 cylinder bikes, but I want the be all, end all, all around bike for longer fun rides.

Cheers guys!

 

[Williamson]

Ray,

I have not noticed this simple "fix" mentioned so far on this thread. I have searched for a reference elsewhere but couldn't find anything (will update the thread if or when I do). I'm pretty sure this procedure is correct, and there is no risk anyway if it's not, so here goes.

1. Disconnect battery for a while, as I cannot find what a "while" is, overnight is adecquate.

2. Reconnect battery.

3. Start engine, do not use throttle or rev engine, just let it idle on auto choke.

4. When revs drop to normal idle speed or when thermo fan starts up, switch engine "off".

5. Re-start and go for a test ride.

I was told that this process re-sets the EMU or ECU (or whatever),it worked for me.

Cheers, Michael

 

[dduelin]

........ I don't like that I have to have the key to open the bags, that sucks, I prefer to leave them unlocked, but... that's petty.

There is a work around for that. Many of us make a set of “bag keys” by cutting off a Ilco x265 or hd109 key blank and epoxying it into a suitable knob. The bag key will be too short to start the bike but can be left in the saddlebag locks until they need to be left secured.

ST1300 key knob farkle for bag locks | Luggage / Fairings

So I cut down 2 spare keys, bought some knobs at radio shack and some expoxy and spend some time putting everything together. The knobs were $1 each and had a brass insert. The drill press was used to snag and remove the inserts. I cut the keys at about a 20 degree angle because of the tilt...

www.st-owners.com

 

[ST Gui]

I bought my 2007 ST1300 used, and the PO had installed some kind of electronic device that eliminate the fuel cutoff during engine braking.

One of those devices was ivan's Fuel Cutoff Eliminator. It was supposed to keep the cut off from "slamming shut" and eliminating the ST1300's snatchy throttle. A few members here tried it. Some had great success - others not so much. It was eventually discontinued - not sure why maybe just a lack of demand. I considered it but the no-improvement rate was just too high the installation a bit too serious and the price too high for me to take a risk.

 

[STumped]

One of those devices was ivan's Fuel Cutoff Eliminator. It was supposed to keep the cut off from "slamming shut" and eliminating the ST1300's snatchy throttle. A few members here tried it. Some had great success - others not so much.

Yeah, I bought one and noticed a difference in the throttle response but not necessarily in a good way. In my case, I think it made the throttle response a little erratic. I eventually took it off.

What surprisingly DID make a difference was syncing the starter valves. I was surprised to find the off throttle to on throttle transition to be much smoother. Putting along at 25-30mph in second gear always required some clutch slipping to go from coasting to back on the throttle without making the bike lurch. Now, with a steady, smooth throttle hand, I can transition from coasting in second gear to back on the throttle smoothly without any clutch use. But it still requires a smooth input and very precise movement of the throttle.

With some practice you can make it work. But you cannot ride the ST1300 the same way you ride a carbed bike and expect it to react the same way. It's just the nature of the beast of fuel injection combined with the stringent EPA requirements.

As always, YMMV.

 

[ddemair]

Yeah, I bought one and noticed a difference in the throttle response but not necessarily in a good way. In my case, I think it made the throttle response a little erratic. I eventually took it off.

What surprisingly DID make a difference was syncing the starter valves. I was surprised to find the off throttle to on throttle transition to be much smoother. Putting along at 25-30mph in second gear always required some clutch slipping to go from coasting to back on the throttle without making the bike lurch. Now, with a steady, smooth throttle hand, I can transition from coasting in second gear to back on the throttle smoothly without any clutch use. But it still requires a smooth input and very precise movement of the throttle.

With some practice you can make it work. But you cannot ride the ST1300 the same way you ride a carbed bike and expect it to react the same way. It's just the nature of the beast of fuel injection combined with the stringent EPA requirements.

As always, YMMV.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's a starter valve?