ST1300 - Roller Bearing to Taper Bearing Upgrade for Steering Head - Warning

[dduelin]

I have installed tapered steering head bearings on 3 different motorcycles. 1978 SR 500 Yamaha and added Zerk fitting to swingarm. All to improve handling and movement of parts that are supposed to move. Seat of the pants impression, seemed to help.

Also a VTX 1300 and a 2014 Valkyrie 1800. Both bikes exibited low speed occilation from 45mph down to 30mph. Success, improved both.
One thing i never understood was the complicated procedure for torqueing steering head bearing. Wheel bearings replaced is usually a two step process. Tighten to a pre determined tourque, loosen and final setting.
Seems most factories today use guns to fasten everything. If someone is doing the swingaway test to every motorcyle wouldn't that clog the line. They of course have the advantage depending on the level of assembly reached at that time. If someone could enlighten me I'm willing to listen.

Honda doesn't use the swing-to-the-side method of checking steering bearing preload. They are much too precise for that. The Honda factory service manual gives us a specific sequence of initial torque to 18 ft lbs, release, retorque to 11 ft lbs, then another 45 degree on clockwise on the adjustment nut. After staking the lock nut in place and assembling the top bridge the steering stem top nut is torqued to 76 ft lbs. After putting the forks and front wheel back together, a specific pull force test on one fork leg with a range of 2.14 to 3.2 lb/ft tells the tale. A trigger pull gauge is good for this. If it's out of that range then it all comes apart to retorque. The best thing about using OEM ball bearings is the service manual torque values are accurate and the trial and error are minimal. If you use aftermarket tapered rollers the preload settings are a crap shoot of trial and error to get the pull value correct.

 

[rwthomas1]

And I bet a very large percentage of riders don't even do that. Every thing is fine - until it isn't. Bike wanders / uneven tread wear / odd vibration - check the steering head bearings.

"Annual inspection time! Lessee- flush and bleed the clutch and brakes / inspect the pads / check all fluid levels - oh and disassemble the front end and check the lube on the steering head bearings." Yeah- no.

My unscientific test is to have a helper sit on the passenger part of the seat, holding the front wheel off the ground while on the center stand. I then grab the lower fork tubes and pull, shake, twist, etc. to see if there is any discernible play that could be felt. As long as there is no play, and its all smooth, I call it good. I have found a few loose or crunchy bikes years ago when really tearing into this hobby. When there is a problem it's obvious.

RT

 

[Jambriwal]

Good answers dduelin and rwthomas1. I have used both these methods to check steering head bearings. Must have gotten close to right a couple of times because i don't recall any problems after this. Although the steering head has very little rotation in the steering head the fact that support so much of the bikes weight leaves me to think the answer is economic. After all many bicycles used ball bearings but there has been improvments to those in recent times.

 

[rwthomas1]

Good answers dduelin and rwthomas1. I have used both these methods to check steering head bearings. Must have gotten close to right a couple of times because i don't recall any problems after this. Although the steering head has very little rotation in the steering head the fact that support so much of the bikes weight leaves me to think the answer is economic. After all many bicycles used ball bearings but there has been improvments to those in recent times.

Roller bearings are a solution looking for a problem in street ridden motorcycles. Economics play a huge role in any manufacturing. If roller bearings were such a huge advantage in this application, they would be there from the factory. Peruse any forum and look at the long lists of problem areas. Steering head bearings really isn't a standout anywhere. Sure they wear out. But so does many other parts of the machine. There doesn't seem to be a rash of critical steering head bearing failures in any make, brand, or model, well, ever. Ignore them and by the time they do give trouble, there will have been a laundry list of other parts that have already expired and been replaced.

RT

 

[wjbertrand]

I installed tapered bearings to my ST1100's steering stem in an attempt to solve the headshake issue when decelerating at 35-45 MPH. Results were mixed. First, the seal at the top would not even seat down into the head tube of the frame because the tapered bearing and race set stack were taller than the OEM ball bearings (yes the race was fully seated). I tried to keep the gap packed with grease to keep water and dirt out. The other problem was the sensitivity to torque of the tapered vs. the OEM ball bearings. I found I could not use the OEM torque setting or in fact any torque setting I could actually measure without adding too much friction. This had the effect of creating a weave at low, in-town, speeds. The same effect of over tightening an old school friction steering damper. Don't know how many here can relate to that. I had to adjust the bearing torque by hand with a deft touch, just to the point of eliminating any play and no more. This razor thin adjustment range of course was always needing attention. Every so many miles I'd start to get the weave from it getting too tight or hear the hammering from it loosening up. Worst of all when properly adjusted so as not to add excessive friction, the tapered bearings didn't solve the headshake problem anyway. Honda knew what it was doing with the use of ball type headstock bearings and the OEM Exedra tires.

 

[paulcb]

Thanks for that info Jeff.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I've put tapered steering stem bearings in all 4 of my ST1100s and it did solve the 'steering head shake' for me. One was so bad you better not let go of the handlebars a low speeds or you would have a tank slapper. I did use the CBR bearing kit that was designed for the ST1100 all 4 times and I had no problems with proper fit. Adjusting the 'torque' is a bit like wheel bearings - tight enough that there is no play, loose enough that the movement is easy. YEMV.

 

[Larry Fine]

The other problem was the sensitivity to torque of the tapered vs. the OEM ball bearings.

That's because they act as a wedge.

 

[wjbertrand]

I've put tapered steering stem bearings in all 4 of my ST1100s and it did solve the 'steering head shake' for me. One was so bad you better not let go of the handlebars a low speeds or you would have a tank slapper. I did use the CBR bearing kit that was designed for the ST1100 all 4 times and I had no problems with proper fit. Adjusting the 'torque' is a bit like wheel bearings - tight enough that there is no play, loose enough that the movement is easy. YEMV.

Yes I too used the CBR kit (couldn't remember the name of it when I posted above). I could stop the head shake only by tightening the bearings to the point that I could feel the low-speed weave. I was unwilling to settle for the trade off. I think different riders have different levels of sensitivity to things the bike is transmitting (i.e. folks that don't notice the handling change caused by car tires for example). The weave was not something someone observing would be able to see, unless I really cranked down on them, but was a feeling of constant minute correct/overcorrect steering input requirements at very low speeds. Bugged the hell out of me. The solution for me was to return to the OEM bias G547 Bridgestone Exedra front tire. Using that tire eliminated 90% of the problem.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I usually run radials on the fronts of mine (they all have ABSII rims). I understand the 'low speed' weave as I did a set too tight and it is aggravating to go back in and 'fix' it. But I did not have an problems with fit or too much space anywhere. But all of mine are 1997 and later.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Add another data point to the successful and satisfied ST1100 tapered roller stem bearing install list. Did mine on my 1991 SSMST1100 25 years ago this month. The install is quite simple using the STOC loaner tool kit and the Honda Common Service Manual. The kit’s been used many, many times. Its special drivers seat the races well enough that a follow up preload check is not really necessary. In any case, the tapereds are far more forgiving at a slightly lower than perfect preload. Too tight is easy to feel and you’re unlikely to put the bike back together and on the ground that way. JMHO

In over 22 years on the ST forums I only recall one installer who felt the tapereds were truly problematic, all others satisfied after doing the deed. Many reporting a decel wobble eliminated, or greatly reduced.

FWIW YMMV JMHO

John

 

[ST Gui]

As long as there is no play, and its all smooth, I call it good.

I've done this myself and it once resulted in disassembly and replacement of races and bearings. But that check is the closed to inspecting the bearing I've ever come without having an reason to dissemble.

Another data point I've previously mentioned is my 'WIng buddy getting TRBs installen in his '05 Wing at 50Kmi. He was very happy with the improved steadiness when pushing it through corners. He has had no complaints and I don't know of any other improvement he may have had.

 

[wjbertrand]

Add another data point to the successful and satisfied ST1100 tapered roller stem bearing install list. Did mine on my 1991 SSMST1100 25 years ago this month. The install is quite simple using the STOC loaner tool kit and the Honda Common Service Manual. The kit’s been used many, many times. Its special drivers seat the races well enough that a follow up preload check is not really necessary. In any case, the tapereds are far more forgiving at a slightly lower than perfect preload. Too tight is easy to feel and you’re unlikely to put the bike back together and on the ground that way. JMHO

In over 22 years on the ST forums I only recall one installer who felt the tapereds were truly problematic, all others satisfied after doing the deed. Many reporting a decel wobble eliminated, or greatly reduced.

FWIW YMMV JMHO

John

I dunno John, maybe I'm hypersensitive or weird or something, I left them in there and just dealt with the occasional need to reset them but If I were to do it over again, I'd stick with the OEM ball bearings. I noticed also that my ST1300 had ball bearings as OEM. That bike was not susceptible to the head shake like the 1100, so other than lubing them once when I had the front end apart for a revalve and new seals, I never thought about them.

 

[rwthomas1]

I've done this myself and it once resulted in disassembly and replacement of races and bearings. But that check is the closed to inspecting the bearing I've ever come without having an reason to dissemble.

Another data point I've previously mentioned is my 'WIng buddy getting TRBs installen in his '05 Wing at 50Kmi. He was very happy with the improved steadiness when pushing it through corners. He has had no complaints and I don't know of any other improvement he may have had.

Thats not really a data point. I'd expect there to be a difference between stock ball bearings with 50K on them and new roller bearings. I'd expect that there would be the same difference between the stock ball bearings with 50K on them and a set of NEW ball bearings. I suspect that the average rider wouldn't be able to sense any difference between NEW roller and NEW ball.

Don't get me wrong, if you are so inclined to install rollers, go for it. Or you are chasing a specific problem like head shake, etc. Depending on price, when my ST1100 needs stem bearings, I may go with rollers. But if the ball bearings are cheaper, and they have given good service without any issues, then I see no reason to change.

RT

 

[ST Gui]

I suspect that the average rider wouldn't be able to sense any difference between NEW roller and NEW ball.

Probably true. But he's not an average rider and he knew the improvement in handling was new to the bike regardless of the mileage ie better than stock in his experience.

if you are so inclined to install rollers, go for it.

I assume the 'you' is the Royal or Editorial 'you' as I have no dog in this.

 

[beemerphile]

Shane is giving excellent advice to the casual mechanic. The great advantage of always using OEM parts is that you don't have to think. For some people this is a potentially life-saving benefit. Once you throw away what the OEM engineer did and go your own way, then YOU are the engineer. That is not necessarily a bad thing but there is the possibility that you may suck at it. The fact that an improperly selected tapered roller bearing used with the OEM seal doesn't work does not imply a general problem with the use of a tapered roller bearing in a steering head. I rebuilt a 1971 Honda SL350 for my brother and it had those dag-diggity-danged loose balls in it. There was NO WAY I was putting them back in. Just wasn't going to happen.

Old OEM loose ball bearings...

Since my new bearings were shorter than the OEM, I had to measure the reduction and raise the inner race the equivalent amount with a spacer to recreate the original stack height and prevent any binding, seal fit, or thread take-up issues.

The proper thickness spacer is located between the OEM lower seal and the bearing inner race. The new OEM spec seal is completely happy with all this...

As far as resisting a pressure washer, not even OEM wheel bearings can stand that abuse. The correct approach there is to banish pressure washers from the vicinity of any motorcycle. Pack the steering head with marine grade grease and maintain it occasionally. It will outlast you and the motorcycle with a bit of maintenance.

 

[rwthomas1]

Probably true. But he's not an average rider and he knew the improvement in handling was new to the bike regardless of the mileage ie better than stock in his experience.


I assume the 'you' is the Royal or Editorial 'you' as I have no dog in this.

Actually, when I write "you" its intended for any reader. People are free to do what they want, maintain their machines to their satisfaction. Why my opinion would matter to anyone but me, well, I guess thats up to the reader of the post. Not being an owner of a ball bearing or roller bearing supply or manufacturing operation, I too have no dog in the fight. RT

 

[mello dude]

OEM Honda bearings for the Valkyrie are tapered....

 

[gsforster]

Here is something I found interesting on this topic. https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/shucking.html

 

[beemerphile]

The bearings can probably take the stress of that procedure, but I would never subject them to it. When installing new races, the key is freezing the races overnight; pre-heating the headstock, and applying some Goodson PFL-200 press fit lubricant. Instead of applying seating force with the bearings, a couple of correctly fitted bearing driving collars with a lubricated fine threaded rod and two nuts will pull them down until they seat squarely.