the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
LOL it's funny. Over on the NC750 forum most believe the NT will have way more power than necessary. Low 50's hp is plenty for most of them.
The New Touring Era 21.10.2021
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ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
So where does this fit between my 2014 FJR1300 and my 2019 Versys 1000 LT SE. Price Point is going to be the big factor. I am not a big tech guy so the fancy touch screen dash is not a big deal, but not found of the Instrument cluster styling. Advantages of the FJR over the NT1100 is more horse power and two extra cylinders. Disadvantage is 112 more lbs in weight. Advantages of the Big Versys is more horse power two more cylinders, Electronic suspension. Disadvantages are, tall bike, 40 lbs more in weight. Chain vs. shaft is not a consideration. Some one else said it earlier. It looks like the design was a conglomeration of all the other Japanese brands with a touch of the Euro brands thrown in. Time will tell.
Chuck,
I believe the NT1100 is a direct competitor to the Versys 1000 LT SE. If you look at the specs side by side, they are extremely close.
I believe the NT1100 is a direct competitor to the Versys 1000 LT SE. If you look at the specs side by side, they are extremely close.
the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
I'm sure this will be a big seller in Europe where they value having a DCT and where big hp is not considered necessary. Here in the states, not sure how it's going to be received. Rather poorly I am suspecting.
Kudos to Honda for getting back into the touring business. My initial impressions are that it is a very good-looking bike and I am sure that it will have the normal Honda build quality - but I probably wouldn't buy one as my primary tourer. For me, the 2 cylinder is a little off-putting, a triple seems like a better touring engine. The engine is bulletproof and made perfect sense in the Africa Twin, but these are different applications.
Chain drive is a bit odd for a "touring" bike, at least in the U.S. I readily admit that I am lazy and would prefer not to clean chain goop up all the time. The reliability of chains can't be argued but shaft drive reliability is nearly as good these days, albeit more expensive.
At the end of the day, I would probably buy either a Tracer or Versys before I would the NT. But that is just me.
Chain drive is a bit odd for a "touring" bike, at least in the U.S. I readily admit that I am lazy and would prefer not to clean chain goop up all the time. The reliability of chains can't be argued but shaft drive reliability is nearly as good these days, albeit more expensive.
At the end of the day, I would probably buy either a Tracer or Versys before I would the NT. But that is just me.
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
If that is the case, I will keep my Versys for advantages stated above. Electronic, adaptive suspension, 4 cylinders vs. two, 20 more horses. And the Versys is paid for. maybe in a couple of three years when I need to lose a couple three bikes and I am a few years older then the Honda might do.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
What folks tend to forget is that the ST1100 was designed by Honda of Germany not Honda of Japan (I have a copy of the article in German) to compete with the BMWs of the day. The ST1100 market was always 'bigger' in Europe than over here. They pretty much had the government 'business' sewed up. They got all the colors and accessories that we never saw in the States. So this will probably be the same for the NT1100 as it is designed to pass the new 'Euro' specs.
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You guys want this to fit a very specific niche... don't think like a rider, think like a marketing sales person... if you have a bike that is very specific and only fits one niche... that's it... however, if it actually overlaps some of the competitors in some ways and other competitors in other ways... you create a product that may match more consumers.
Then, think like an accountant.. reuse the AT engine and dash and electrical harness.. then, make it chain because those components are very generic and adjutsable and don't require the development of something new which also slows the delivery to market.
Then, think like an accountant.. reuse the AT engine and dash and electrical harness.. then, make it chain because those components are very generic and adjutsable and don't require the development of something new which also slows the delivery to market.
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I absolutely agree with you @Mellow from a business point of view. Use what you can off of the shelf and put a new model out there that will bring you net new sales - sales without cannibalizing sales from existing models and I am sure that this will bring new folks into the showroom. However, if you want to lead the market with a new product introduction, then you look at the competition and make it better. No one can argue that the AT engine isn't a corker, but a triple would be a little more sporty IMO. Now, if Honda is bringing this out as a smaller sport tourer and they have plans to bring out a middle ground newly designed ST to fill the gap between this and the Gold Wing at some point in the future, then this makes more sense to me, but as a replacement for an ST redesign it falls a little short. BUT AT LEAST HONDA isn't ignoring the touring market which has got to be a good thing.
The sport-touring niche is kinda odd in that it is skewed towards older riders (at least in the U.S.) that want larger, horsepower-rich, wind-protected, comfortable mile eaters that can do the twisties fairly well. I am absolutely guilty of that myself as I am 61 and I ride a whale (BMW K1600), but I would like something smaller as a second machine for shorter jaunts. This bike would be on the shortlist but I don't think it would be at the top of it. Just 2 cents FWIW.
The sport-touring niche is kinda odd in that it is skewed towards older riders (at least in the U.S.) that want larger, horsepower-rich, wind-protected, comfortable mile eaters that can do the twisties fairly well. I am absolutely guilty of that myself as I am 61 and I ride a whale (BMW K1600), but I would like something smaller as a second machine for shorter jaunts. This bike would be on the shortlist but I don't think it would be at the top of it. Just 2 cents FWIW.
Well, don't take a Tracer or Versys for a ride... Unless financing is ready..
I threw together a quick pdf of the specs I could find comparing the Versys and the NT.
Incredibly close in most ways.
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The narrow angle V twin of the Deauville was noted for having a bit of vibration at higher rpms. The parallel twin Africa Twin motor incorporates a 270 degree crankshaft with counterbalance shafts that offset primary and secondary imbalances, making it a very smooth engine. The R & D cost to completely rework the old engine (dating from the early 1980s VT500) and bring it to fuel injected Euro 5 compliance probably wouldn't have saved money especially with a modern AT motor sitting on the shelf.
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Lee, that's an interesting take on tonal attraction (or revulsion) of the current Honda parallel twins. When BMW released the Oilhead one wag noted famously "it might be [BMW] boxer but makes sounds like an old man farting." How many miles did you put on your Oilheads?
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
I am getting better mileage than what is stated. Of course I am riding at higher alt. and slower speeds. I get about 50 to 51 MPG
the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
I was one that was never impressed by the Yamaha Triple. Either was my son. He was impressed by all the raving of moto journos. On paper it sounded great 115 hp, light weight, snarling 3 cyl motor. So he bought one. After a year and 13,000 miles, he said it was an "OK" bike. I rode it many times and agreed with him. It was ok, but never thrilled either of us. He only kept it a year before trading it in on a Yamaha MT 10. The MT 10 thrills. To both of us the cross plane I-4 trumps the I-3 many times over in performance, sound and excitement.
I must say, having traded my FJR in on an 2021 NC 750X DCT, I miss the hp and creature comforts of the FJR badly even if I rarely used the hp. Also miss the smoothness of the I-4 compared to the lumpiness of the 270 degree P2. But seeing as how my wife has quit touring with me I thought I didn't need a 145 hp bike anymore for my local riding. Hence the NC. It IS doing everything I want in a bike, including solo touring, and the 79 mpg I got on my last fill and under 500 pound weight is awesome. I've even come to really appreciate the DCT. But a little more hp and torque would be welcomed, plus the heated grips and cruise control. This NT may be the ticket although it will be a little tall for me. I'll need a test sit and a test ride before coming to any conclusion.
I must say, having traded my FJR in on an 2021 NC 750X DCT, I miss the hp and creature comforts of the FJR badly even if I rarely used the hp. Also miss the smoothness of the I-4 compared to the lumpiness of the 270 degree P2. But seeing as how my wife has quit touring with me I thought I didn't need a 145 hp bike anymore for my local riding. Hence the NC. It IS doing everything I want in a bike, including solo touring, and the 79 mpg I got on my last fill and under 500 pound weight is awesome. I've even come to really appreciate the DCT. But a little more hp and torque would be welcomed, plus the heated grips and cruise control. This NT may be the ticket although it will be a little tall for me. I'll need a test sit and a test ride before coming to any conclusion.
Not sure about a helmet, but from the vids, the bags are big enough to fit a violin. That's all I need.
Yeah, this year riding through CO-WY I was getting crazy mileage and I WAS NOT taking it easy.
Or for those of us who are into the heavier LD Touring/Camping:
ST1300 - 125 HP and 730 lbs + 400 lbs = .11 hp/lbs
NT1100 - 103 HP and 525 lbs + 400 lbs = .11 hp/lbs
Coincidence?
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Power outlets?