Slight Instability in Windy Conditions

willie13377

willie13377

Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
33
Age
33
Location
Livingston, Louisiana United States
Bike
2004 Honda ST1300A
Maybe I'm just paranoid... or crazy...

I'm still learning the ins and outs of a full fairing touring bike. When riding on the interstate, I sometimes feel like the bike has a slight sense of instability. I don't know if it is just catching pockets of "dirty air", or buffeting from other vehicles in the distance, or what it is? I'm used to riding a GS BMW and I don't feel the same sensation in windy conditions. Possibly because I'm exposed to the wind and it moves my body around as opposed to the bike. It could even be wind that gets between me and the top case. Who knows???

I'm simply thinking that I may just be feeling the movement of the bike more on the ST since I'm protected from the wind. It is just something that I'm not sure if is normal. Tires are good, pressure is good, no unusual behavior from suspension. Bike handles flawlessly in curves so nothing seems to be misaligned or loose.

Thoughts??
 
I find that to be quite normal. I just let the bike do what it needs to do. I don't fight anything. Depending on what kind of vehicle I'm behind depends on the type of air is in front of me.
 
No, you are not imagining this. The ST1300 has a rather steep angle of rake and short trail for a sport touring bike and exhibits "happy feet" or nervousness when ridden fast and also in the dirty air of fast traffic. The behavior has been well documented and has a name "Pan Weave". It can be minimized with tire pressure and enough preload to get the rear shock up off the lower half of travel (only if rider weight is around 180 lbs or less).

The trade off is very light neutral steering for a 730 lb motorcycle.
 
I'm getting an immediate sense of relief reading your post. I experienced the same thing on my R1200RT BMW and thought I was just going nuts. I'll be doing some adjustment on the preload. I'm 6'3" and 240 lbs. Love this bike though!
 
The 900 lb rear spring on the ST1300 is really too soft for you and most of us non - Japanese ideal 150 lb riders. The required preload to set unladen ride height is blown right through when loaded with rider and cargo. Still, it's better than doing nothing and riding around on the shock's bump stop.
 
If it's just buffeting then just relax and don't hang on too tight, it'll only make it worse.
But it could be weave :eek:, the only way you'll know is ride on a still day without traffic and slowly increase speed, if it's going to show up as weave it will probably happen before 3 figure speeds. If it starts just roll off the throttle, lower your weight as much as you can and don't try to ride/accelerate through it, because you won't.
Most proper weave will be caused by warn and unsuitable tyres. It's worth noting that the earlier 13's like yours were the ones that played up.
Good luck and hang loose.
Upt'North.
 
A few things that might help with this.

1. Check that your rear pre-load is not set too high. Dont think that winding up the pre-load makes suspension stiffer. It doesn't. It just raises the rear of the bike relative to what it was before. The consequence of this is that the rake of the front forks is steeper, making the bike feel more twitchy. Especially when you are new to the bike.
Also check your rebound damping is set so that the bike doesn't boing-boing-boing after a bump. See the handbook.

2. If riding solo with a top box, that causes issues. The airflow eddies behind your back, and swipes the top box from alternate sides. Fitting a pillion on the back cures this completely, as does removing the top box. The official Honda top box is fixed with sliding mounts which provide a little 'give' to reduce the effect. Also ride with the screen as low as is comfortable. The higher it is, the bigger the eddy around the rear.

3. When overtaking lorries/trucks - don't get caught by the bow wave if the wind is coming from the nearside or from the front. Ride out wide, and countersteer in slightly so that you have a slight lean into the expected blast as you ride through it. It can't catch you off balance then.

4. Tyre pressures 42/42 psi when cold.

5. Catch yourself gripping the bars too tight - and force yourself to relax.

But yes. It is a bit twitchy when you first start riding one. Like trying to stand on a surfboard in water, or the leg shake when you first start climbing a rock face. The suspension thing used to catch me out after winding it up for two-up camping, and then I'd ride it solo and forget to put it back. Very scary. But your brain gets used to it - as it does with a surf board and a rock face. It does't take long.

And I often ride without a pillion with the top box, without resetting the pre-load and am quite happy in cross winds. It doesn't bother me - but I remember those first few weeks when it did.
 
Upt' North said:
If it's just buffeting then just relax and don't hang on too tight, it'll only make it worse.
But it could be weave :eek:, the only way you'll know is ride on a still day without traffic and slowly increase speed, if it's going to show up as weave it will probably happen before 3 figure speeds. If it starts just roll off the throttle, lower your weight as much as you can and don't try to ride/accelerate through it, because you won't.
Most proper weave will be caused by warn and unsuitable tyres. It's worth noting that the earlier 13's like yours were the ones that played up.
Good luck and hang loose.
Upt'North.
Click to expand...
It is more of a buffeting than a weave. Non rhythmic and not any type of patter. Just when going through what I describe as "dirty" air. I guess I'm just having to get used to the feel of a full fairing bike, having ridden a dual sport all my life.
 
jfheath said:
A few things that might help with this.

1. Check that your rear pre-load is not set too high. Dont think that winding up the pre-load makes suspension stiffer. It doesn't. It just raises the rear of the bike relative to what it was before. The consequence of this is that the rake of the front forks is steeper, making the bike feel more twitchy. Especially when you are new to the bike.
Also check your rebound damping is set so that the bike doesn't boing-boing-boing after a bump. See the handbook.

2. If riding solo with a top box, that causes issues. The airflow eddies behind your back, and swipes the top box from alternate sides. Fitting a pillion on the back cures this completely, as does removing the top box. The official Honda top box is fixed with sliding mounts which provide a little 'give' to reduce the effect. Also ride with the screen as low as is comfortable. The higher it is, the bigger the eddy around the rear.

3. When overtaking lorries/trucks - don't get caught by the bow wave if the wind is coming from the nearside or from the front. Ride out wide, and countersteer in slightly so that you have a slight lean into the expected blast as you ride through it. It can't catch you off balance then.

4. Tyre pressures 42/42 psi when cold.

5. Catch yourself gripping the bars too tight - and force yourself to relax.

But yes. It is a bit twitchy when you first start riding one. Like trying to stand on a surfboard in water, or the leg shake when you first start climbing a rock face. The suspension thing used to catch me out after winding it up for two-up camping, and then I'd ride it solo and forget to put it back. Very scary. But your brain gets used to it - as it does with a surf board and a rock face. It does't take long.

And I often ride without a pillion with the top box, without resetting the pre-load and am quite happy in cross winds. It doesn't bother me - but I remember those first few weeks when it did.
Click to expand...
Thank you! This addresses all of my issues with it. I do ride solo with the top box on quite a bit for work. So i'll just have to get used to it. I'm sure that after a few solid weeks on the bike I'll be just fine with it!
 
Our ST's buffet a bit in choppy breezes and they are a bit sensitive feeling in the calm. Completely different feeling coming off 20 years on early GL1000's. Strong side winds can be a chore but the bikes take it well, even with a tumbleweed stuck between the back of the windscreen and me.
As others have commented, grip comfortably, not too tight. ST's steering geometry seems to be set up somewhere between that of a GL and a sport bike. Seems normal.
 
So i took off the top case, and did just an extra turn on the preload. I am feeling a significant difference, but still not enough to make me happy. I just don't remember it being like this when I rode an ST years ago. As I said, maybe I just have to relearn how a full fairing bike feels.
 
Maybe the fork stanchions aren't aligned, try loosening off and retightening the front axle as per the manual
 
willie13377 said:
So i took off the top case, and did just an extra turn on the preload. I am feeling a significant difference, but still not enough to make me happy. I just don't remember it being like this when I rode an ST years ago. As I said, maybe I just have to relearn how a full fairing bike feels.
Click to expand...
If weight and suspension bottoming are not a concern, try temporarily lowering the rear end a bit, to see if the reduced fork angle adds any stability.

In an all-other-things-being-equal world, the steeper the front fork, the twitchier the steering.
 
I haven't ridden a lot of bikes, but the ST1300 is the most wind-affected bike that I've been on. Even in "dirty air" it never really moves very far, but I do feel it.

I hate bridges because I dislike heights and it's always windier up there. My strategy has been to lower the wind screen (since it acts like a sail) and maintain a steady pace. Yes, there's buffeting, but it's quite manageable if you don't over-think it as I have sometimes done.
 
ddemair said:
I haven't ridden a lot of bikes, but the ST1300 is the most wind-affected bike that I've been on. Even in "dirty air" it never really moves very far, but I do feel it.

I hate bridges because I dislike heights and it's always windier up there. My strategy has been to lower the wind screen (since it acts like a sail) and maintain a steady pace. Yes, there's buffeting, but it's quite manageable if you don't over-think it as I have sometimes done.
Click to expand...
I'm probably just over thinking and over gripping the handlebars!
 
Most casual riders don’t bother with learning how to assess their suspension and make appropriate adjustments but if you are so inclined you will find under a 230 lb rider or all two up couples the stock ST1300 rear spring cannot be preloaded enough to make the front end twitchy and that’s with the preload adjuster giving 100% travel which isn’t likely unless it has been serviced.

The sag doesn’t lie, it’s mathematically impossible with the 900 lb spring to get the shock operating in the middle third of travel if the rider(s) totals 230+ lbs.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Pre-load Fluid Replacement | ST1300 Articles

Nobody?
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
 
Most bikes with full bodywork will be affected somewhat by wind blast. The wind coming from the sides are the worst. I know the manufacturers say these bikes were wind tunnel designed by I don't buy it. My corolla gets blown around on a windy day so do 18 wheelers or campers. Anything with a large surface area will get blasted. But it does seem like cruiser type bikes or Harley's without full body work seem immune.
 
I've only been over 100 mph a few times with mine [or maybe only approached on with the exception of two occasions] either way, still makes a couple, I did not have any fork or rear shock hysteresis; in those 90 mph plus bits, and they were only short bits, I could have done it with no hands. I have never and would never take this or any motorcycle over 70 mph with a box top.
In all high speeds, I kept the windshield down interested to see if I could get that [two castors in tandem so to speak, - on undampened springs if you will - oscillation].
Didn't happen.
I have to imagine that the rider inputs into the weave; I remember one time me and the lovely contestant from the studio audience returning from an evening out about twenty five years ago; lets just say it wasn't wobble.
Point being in my experience and opinion, this bike is pretty steady.
 
After having an extended conversation with a very trusted and extremely well knowledgeable source in the ST world last night, I'll be doing some minor, but much needed, adjustments to the ST To see if I can correct this behavior. With all of the engineering that Honda put into this motorcycle, I am not ready to accept that what I am experiencing is "normal". I will keep y'all updated!
 
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