Does ATGATT Work

Grabcon

Grabcon

Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
937
Age
71
Location
Hereford, AZ
Bike
2020 Moto guzzi V85T
A guy I met here in Arizona last fall was involved in a motorcycle accident in Minnesota a couple of weeks ago. Here is what he has to say. Yep he walked away.

"Some of you have heard I was in a crash while riding my motorcycle in Minnesota a couple weeks ago. I was riding in the far left lane when a truck entered the freeway, rapidly crossed three lanes and hit me. Thanks to my Schuberth full face helmet and Aerostich Darien jacket, I am alive and have no road rash or broken bones. My R1250 RT, helmet and jacket are a total loss. The Highway Patrol and EMT said I would not have survived it if I hadn't been wearing a helmet. The chin bar saved my face. Iron Horse had an identical 2020 RT for sale , which I purchased. It really is true, all the gear all the time. Lewie Marshall"
 
Interesting question.....many different answers.
I'm ATGATT.
I recently put some RideOn in my BeaST and rode after the application in each tyre, I was wearing helmet, gloves, bike jacket and work boots and trousers. It didn't feel right at all. Not only was it disconcerting that I had limited foot, ankle, and leg protection but flapping trousers are a big distraction.
But again back to your question, does it work. I think to find statistics to prove or disprove that wearing motorcycle trousers prevented injuries in all motorcycle collisions will be pretty much impossible to source. The same will apply to most other protective clothing. Not forgetting that all clothing is not equal.
I recently bought a new textile jacket and it's the first I've ever owned that is capable of keeping the armour correctly in place, like a good leather jacket does. So not only (IMHO) is ATGATT important but if it's not the correct clothing the protection may be reduced.
I don't know the person or the case you refer too, but I would take all quotes with a large pinch of salt. Unless prior to the collision his body was affixed with sensors to monitor deceleration and movement after the impact, then the incident would have to be filmed and assessed by experts in collision investigation before such statements could be taken seriously.
Did it save his life, was it divine intervention, we will never know. Did it save him injuries, most definitely. If you fell on concrete whilst gardening today and were wearing gardening gloves it could well prevent grazing to your hands but it wouldn't help you too much if you also fall onto a garden fork with your chest.
There is some positive thought towards air vest inflation devices, some are adamant, "they save lives", yet I'm not aware of any statistical evidence that shows they have a positive effect in road collisions.
My own views FWIW is that roads and vehicle are hard and I'm squishy (and getting squishier every day), I know they're hard from past experience, did my kit save my life, no one knows. Did it save me some life changing injuries, without doubt.
There is also a cultural divide either side of the Atlantic too. It is most unusual to see riders over this side without motorcycle kit, from my experience in the good'ol US of A there is a very different perspective.
Ride in what you like, it's a free world, well it isn't, but you know what I mean.
Upt'North.
 
Last edited:
I ride in full gear all the time.
I also don't like riding in the summertime because it's so hot here in the South- so there we are.
Recently I rode back from CampSTOC in 93-96 deg F heat and used one of those cooling jackets you soak up with water.
It actually worked but I still don't like riding in the summer.
On the way back I stopped for a bite to eat and a couple parked next to me on a Harley trike.
They were an older couple dressed in shorts and light shoes, t-shirts and such - the women asked me how I ride in gear and I told her I had a cooling vest.
I passed another Harley rider in tank top, shorts, and flipflops and the "almost a helmet" that they wear.
Maybe I'm just riding the wrong brand of bike - I dunno. I've heard loud pipes save lives too, but not sure.
Not all states enforce helmet laws - PA and SC don't for example.
I had a crash many years ago - low speed and slid on my face for a short distance.
The full-face helmet was ruined, but my face is still intact.
Youse ride and youse take yer chances I guess...
 
ATGATT is part of the deal I struck with my wife when I decided to get back into motorcycling. Even if it minimizes one bruise or one scrape, it's worth it. I break easier and feel pain more as I age. Plus I get to feel all otherworldly space astronaut Ranger Rick when I wear the gear. Which is good for when I ride off to the Delta Quadrant....

Re: airbag clothing, this study done in 2019 suggests they do provide protection but that it is limited. Further study clearly required (and may have been done, I didn't do a exhaustive search).
 
It's important to remember that there is NOTHING that can guarantee 100 percent protection from injury or harm, in every conceivable scenario. BUT, as far as offering GOOD protection and the chance of greatly reduced injury from MANY common scenarios, ATGATT is (in my opinion) the only way to ride with confidence of "reasonable" safety levels.

These are photos of the gear I had on in my 2019 get-off. I distinctly recall tumbling and sliding (including face down for a bit) on the concrete bridge deck. Thanks to the gear, I got up and dusted myself off, took a quick inventory of all my parts, and was reassured to find nothing broken or bleeding. There was a small strawberry on one elbow but that's all. The gear was trashed but who cares? It did exactly what it was designed to: it kept ME from sustaining considerably worse damage than I did.

If I ever resume motorcycling, you can bet your last cent it'll be as an ATGATT rider.
PB230465.JPGPB230466.JPGPB230471.JPGPB230480.JPG
PB230481.JPG
 
Last edited:
Weaselinsuit said:
ATGATT is part of the deal I struck with my wife when I decided to get back into motorcycling. Even if it minimizes one bruise or one scrape, it's worth it. I break easier and feel pain more as I age. Plus I get to feel all otherworldly space astronaut Ranger Rick when I wear the gear. Which is good for when I ride off to the Delta Quadrant....

Re: airbag clothing, this study done in 2019 suggests they do provide protection but that it is limited. Further study clearly required (and may have been done, I didn't do a exhaustive search).
Click to expand...
Weasel, your link didn't work for me but I think you referred to this.
Can't understand half of the stats, nothing new there. Perhaps it's me.
According to an article published last December in Tráfico y Seguridad Vial, the magazine of the DGT, a French report presented at the 2019 conference of the IRCOBI estimated that this system is effective and protects vulnerable areas like the thorax in impacts from 30 to 40 km/h. And according to the National Observatory of Road Safety of the DGT, the percentage of spinal injuries was smaller in those riders who used a jacket with airbag (14%) as opposed to those who used just normal protection (27%). In the latter cases, the chance of suffering serious spinal cord injuries is triple.
The part where it refers to the French report is as clear as mud......"it is estimated that this (?) system is effective to protect against thorax impacts at 30 to 40 kmh", what about at 41 kmh, or even better, speeds we actually ride at. But........it clearly states back injuries are less likely wearing an air bag where serious spinal cord injuries may occur. But.......how many motorcycle collisions result in any back injury?
I have a fractured L4, so I know some do but I'm guessing the number is tiny compared to the number of accidents.
I don't mean to sound sceptical, I hope I don't........but I wonder who funded the research?
Upt'North.
 
As the others have said, gear won't prevent all injuries or death, regardless of how good it is. Does it work though? Certainly - knowing it's limits.

Am I ATGATT biased? Yes.
I have a couple of textile jackets with back/elbow/shoulder armor (one high viz), riding pants with knee armor, riding shorts with D3O armor (worn under the clothes on longer trips), leather MC gloves with extra abrasion pads in the palms, fingers and back of hands, and finally a couple of pairs of MC boots with full ankle protection. I've seen the results of some nasty ankle injuries from MC's. Fusing the bones isn't always the best option. Amputation usually is. I like my feet. I like my arms. Heck, I kind of like all of me.

Riding a motorcycle is all about levels of acceptable risk.

But it's a combination of rider skills, situational awareness and bike maintenance as well as the right gear - and some luck at times - that makes it all work.

They key is to try and forsee and avoid the situations that cause accidents as much as possible. Riding at your level, road conditions, knowing whats around you, and avoiding dangerous situations as much as possible is a start. Can you avoid all these, certainly not. The same as you can't avoid the deer that jumps out of nowhere or the guy in the SUV that pulls out in front of you. It's when these things happen that the shift happens instantly to protection.

Do some folks who don't wear any gear walk away without a scratch? Likely. Do some folks with ATGATT still have horrendous injuries or die? Yes. Each case is different and can't really be compared. Being run over by a transport and going under it's wheels doesn't care if you are ATGATT or not......

So what could ATGATT provide? A better level of protection for each bit of kit you wear vs none.

My take is helmets protect the important part that you can't really do without, nor can they be easily fixed, repaired or replaced surgically.
The rest helps prevent road rash which are really nasty burns. Had them before from a get off 30+ year ago before I could afford ATGATT - don't wish to repeat.
If you're lucky the armor (if the gear has it) will help prevent or lessen the injuries you may sustain.
Again, there are too many factors at play - and all in an instant.

Personally I'd rather do the preventative route and wear the gear, hoping the odds are in my favor and I'll never need it, but know if I do need it it's there as best if can be.

Whatever you decide, ride safe and have fun.
 
Last edited:
Almost any pieces of protective gear are way cheaper than a trip to the Emergency Room. I just bought a new hat (Neotech2) and a Turtle 2 so I'm a believer, statistics or not. My doc friends have said extensive road rash can kill, and I've no interest in testing their observations. A good friend recently crashed on a road in Virginia. Four broken ribs and a lot of bruises (AGATT). He believes he would not have the broken ribs had he been wearing a Turtle2.
 
ATGATT here. Well 95% of the time. I commute daily on bike. I have been hit by 2 cars in the past. My motto ATGATT, plus HI VIS. If I can decrease my chances of major injury, I will accept being hot inside my armored pants, jacket, boots, gloves and full face helmet.
Why do fighter jet pilots and sky divers wear helmets? PUFF PUFF PASS!!!
 
I fall into the AGATT group. I sometimes wear jeans for short (1 - 2 hrs) local rides or to run errands but I always have the armored jacket along with my helmet, boots and gloves. Most of the time I wear amored pants too. I buy the best gear I can afford and take care of it. I use a cooling vest in really hot weather.

I've had two significant accidents due to factors beyond my control that resulted in punctured lungs, reconstructed shoulder, broken ribs, arms, etc. I still love to ride and tour. Good gear that is protective and functional (i.e. pockets where I want them, good fit, good weather versatility, etc) is important to me and enhances my riding pleasure.

My experience (based on my 2 accidents) as to the ability of AGATT to protect is that it certainly helps protect the most important part of you (as Obo post #7 mentioned) - your head. Both helmets (modular full face) in my 2 accidents were trashed but my head sustained no injuries, so the value of wearing a helmet is a no brainer. The amored jackets kept me from sustaining any skin rash, cuts or other forms of skin surface disfigurement, so again I feel that always wearing the gear is worth it in that regard.

The only major item that AGATT can't protect against are broken bones. Maybe I broke less than I might have in both crashes because of the armor but my sense is that if you have forceful hard contact with an immovable object or some other substantial sized solid object there is a good chance bones will be broken. That's a risk all motorcyclists take (as do bicyclists) and I'm OK with that.
 
I'm mostly AGATT, but on short trips I will just wear jeans. Always wear boots, gloves, helmet and jacket. Living in Central Florida I sweat a lot but that's a tradeoff I gladly make.
I've had a few low speed get-offs with very little damage to me or my rides but my one high speed wreck made me a believer. I was 17 years old and riding to a friends house at about 60mph. I got hit in the chest by a large black bird and it swept me off the back of my motorcycle. Both me and the bike slid into the ditch and I ended up hitting a small stump and cracking a few ribs but had no other significant injuries. My mom was mortified but she didn't stop me from buying a new bike and getting back on two wheels.
I always tell new riders and my passengers that the biggest worry isn't falling off the motorcycle, it's the cars behind you with drivers who are not paying attention. That usually comes up when I pull over to let tailgaters pass by instead of me speeding up when I'm out for a relaxing ride.
 
Also... if you don't have molecular armor in your jackets/pants, get them... they are just better CE-2 rated stuff and I would guess, for most hobby motorcyclist, the sliding isn't as damaging as the initial impacts if you have all the gear... I see a lot of stuff now includes better armor so kudos to the manufacturers for including that.
 
Mellow said:
Also... if you don't have molecular armor in your jackets/pants, get them... they are just better CE-2 rated stuff and I would guess, for most hobby motorcyclist, the sliding isn't as damaging as the initial impacts if you have all the gear... I see a lot of stuff now includes better armor so kudos to the manufacturers for including that.
Click to expand...

That's why I have some D3O stuff. Mine was made in shorts for skiing / snowboarding vs motorcycle specific. I fall more skiing than motorcycling :)

Think of it as a non-newtonian gel foam. Soft most of the time but becomes hard under impact.

D3O® Impact Protection | Nothing protects better than D3O®

D3O® are experts in impact protection and shock absorption. We make trusted, high performance, shock absorbing solutions for global brands.
www.d3o.com www.d3o.com

You can buy upgrades for most MC gear.
 
ATGATT for me. I have ridden all day in triple digits and it was uncomfortable. I have also been to the ER twice because of mountain bike accidents which both caused concussions while wearing a helmet. The second involved lots of road rash on my right side. Both elbows and knees are heavily scarred from crashing bicycles as kid. I'm not interested in high speed exfoliation treatment. Ice is cheap and I carry water too.
 
In summer I wear fieldsheer mesh armored pants and an Icon mesh jacket. I wear a hard articulated spine protector under my jackets that also incorporates a six or eight inch kidney belt. I find that high quality mesh armored gear is actually cooler than jeans and T because you get the air but not the sun. The Icon jacket has titanium weaved into it, was $600 over 15 years ago, and 15 years later and a few crashes (one 50mph slide on new gravel/asphalt) still looks like new. I have upgraded the armor in it to D3. I also wear cheap off-road type shin and knee protectors tucked into my boots under my riding pants. Low leg injuries are very common, and guide rail verticals and sign posts unforgiving. I do what I can to keep my lower extremities on.

My winter Dainese textile must be almost 30 years old. Good gear is expensive, but it works better and lasts way longer in my experience. Just upgrade the armor as technology improves.

That slide I only had Carhartt pants on, mangled my legs pretty good. Always wear motorcycle pants now.
 
I think there are 2 sections to the ATGATT story, the helmet and then everything else.

There is no question that wearing a helmet has saved thousands (tens of thousands??) of lives over the years.

The value of the balance of the gear really varies on the type and severity of the accident. I wear mine 100% of the time because I believe it will reduce, to some extent, road rash. I've seen the various internet pictures of people who have tumbled along the road at 100 km and it isn't pretty. I also think some soft tissue injuries might be reduced as well + maybe reduced impact / damage to hard point like elbows, shoulders, knees etc..... But, who really knows as every crash is different. It's like having fire insurance, I never want to have a fire, but just in case I do, I want to be as protected as possible.

I shudder when I have a super sport bike pass me on the highway at 150+ km weaving in and out of traffic. Rider wearing shorts, t shirt, no gloves and running shoes. His female passenger perched on the back wearing pretty much the same thing.
 
ReSTored said:
I shudder when I have a super sport bike pass me on the highway at 150+ km weaving in and out of traffic. Rider wearing shorts, t shirt, no gloves and running shoes. His female passenger perched on the back wearing pretty much the same thing.
Click to expand...
For me, that is the definitive definition of the term "donor cycle"
 
ReSTored said:
I shudder when I have a super sport bike pass me on the highway at 150+ km weaving in and out of traffic. Rider wearing shorts, t shirt, no gloves and running shoes. His female passenger perched on the back wearing pretty much the same thing.
Click to expand...
Nope, she is wearing flip flops.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom