Lighter Bike Search

[TPadden]

The chain on my NC made it 23,000 miles, required little maintenance between tire changes, and infrequent lubing... BUT... replacement chain and sprockets plus labor ( because I am not mechanically inclined) was about $400. If I put as many miles on the NC as I did on the ST that translates to $1200 in driveline repair that probably would have been avoided with a shaft drive...

Basically incorrect assumption; modern chains make fiscal sense. Chains and sprockets DO NOT have to be preventively replaced at any particular mileage interval. Unlike shafts they give plenty of wear warning when they need to be replaced, unlike shafts, catastrophic failures are extremely rare. I've had modern Triumphs and Yamaha's that still had original sprockets and chains at twice your 23,000 miles.

Tom

 

[dduelin]

Basically incorrect assumption; modern chains make fiscal sense. Chains and sprockets DO NOT have to be preventively replaced at any particular mileage interval. Unlike shafts they give plenty of wear warning when they need to be replaced, catastrophic failures are extremely rare. I've had modern Triumphs and Yamaha's that still had original sprockets and chains at twice your 23,000 miles.

Tom

The NC uses a 520 chain while more powerful bikes use a 525 or 530. Of course throttle use, attention to basic maintenance, and climate conditions affects chain wear but it's difficult to get much more than 20,000 miles out a 520 chain even with an NC's 50ish hp. I base this assumption on my use and 12 years of NC forum responses. Some owners convert to larger chains in order to get the kind of mileage out of chains/sprockets that you refer to.

 

[the Ferret]

Basically incorrect assumption; modern chains make fiscal sense. Chains and sprockets DO NOT have to be preventively replaced at any particular mileage interval. Unlike shafts they give plenty of wear warning when they need to be replaced, unlike shafts, catastrophic failures are extremely rare. I've had modern Triumphs and Yamaha's that still had original sprockets and chains at twice your 23,000 miles.

Tom

"Unlike shafts they give plenty of wear warning when they need to be replaced, unlike shafts, catastrophic failures are extremely rare."

Catastrophic shaft failures are common? I was in the motorcycle industry at the dealer level (Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi) for 17 years and can't remember a single shaft failure.
NO chain has the potential to be as trouble free and last as long as a shaft.

How many people do you think would be willing to buy chain drive Goldwing's or BMW RT's?

Did you know Honda used to make a chain drive car? But they wised up and went to shaft drive cars.

Anyhow, like dduelin says I got 37,000 miles out of the chain and sprockets on my CB 1100 but it uses a 530 chain, but that's still FAR less than the 110,000 trouble free miles I got out of my ST 1300 shaft drive.

How many shaft failures have we had on this board in the millions of miles reported being ridden?

 

[core-aggie]

--- Tom ---
"Unlike shafts they give plenty of wear warning when they need to be replaced, unlike shafts, catastrophic failures are extremely rare."
...
...
Catastrophic shaft failures are common? I

I think the wording is misleading, or misinterpreted

What I think Tom wrote/meant is:
"catastrophic failures of shaft drives are extremely rare".

 

[TPadden]

... that you refer to.

Dave,

You're violating our agreement to NOT reply to each other; sometimes I may or may not agree with what you say but please stick to our agreement.

Tom

 

[Mellow]

Hondas have had shaft issues.. but, for the ST1300s anyway, it's been u-joint failures and it begins as a slight vibration but has ended in a fire in some cases or destroyed final drive section as the u-joint locks up. Still rare but has happened. My U-joint went out at 50k miles but I caught it in the garage.

The Valkyrie had many drive spline issues but that seemed to be related to dealers / owners NOT using moly when doing a tire change and reinstalling wheels. That was actually somewhat common given the small niche market / sales associated with the Valk.

 

[Mellow]

Dave,

You're violating our agreement to NOT reply to each other; sometimes I may or may not agree with what you say but please stick to our agreement.

Tom

lol.. you just violated that too... so do they cancel each other out?

 

[TPadden]

I think the wording is misleading, or misinterpreted

What I think Tom wrote/meant is:
"catastrophic failures of shaft drives are extremely rare".

Nope, I may be wrong but I'm saying I think catastrophic drive failures (trip ending) are more probable with shafts as they give little warning when they do happen, It's OBVIOUS and easily remedied when chains and sprockets need attention.

Tom

 

[TPadden]

lol.. you just violated that too... so do they cancel each other out?

Don't try to prolong the agony... "ENOUGH SAID"! (another personal violation!)

Tom

 

[Mellow]

Don't try to prolong the agony...

Tom

Too late...

 

[TPadden]

Too late...

... but I actually enjoy annoying you!

Tom

 

[Mellow]

... but I actually enjoy screwing with you!

Tom

Oh... everyone does.. lol

 

[Hound]

One reason I'm reluctant to consider a bike with a chain is that I don't have a garage and my bike has to live outside. Even with lubrication, I imagine it wouldn't take much for the chain (and spockets) to start suffering from corrosion unless I service them regularly. I've only had shaft drive bikes since 1980 (starting with a CX500) and it has spoiled me!



This was my second CX (1998).

 

[core-aggie]

I think the wording is misleading, or misinterpreted

What I think Tom wrote/meant is:
"catastrophic failures of shaft drives are extremely rare".

Nope, I may be wrong but I'm saying I think catastrophic drive failures (trip ending) are more probable with shafts as they give little warning when they do happen, It's OBVIOUS and easily remedied when chains and sprockets need attention.
Tom

< smacks forehead >
Ugh, that's the book editor in me thinking it was miswritten.

 

[TPadden]

One reason I'm reluctant to consider a bike with a chain is that I don't have a garage and my bike has to live outside.

That's a very valid reason and I wouldn't build a garage just so I could buy a bike with a chain.

For me, with a garage, the bike's color is a more important decision than shaft or chain drive. Although my first new bike, a 69 Bonneville had a chain, my second, a 75 Guzzi was shaft. The Bonne's engine seized around 30,000 miles and the Guzzi's rear drive universal broke around 45,000 miles. Modern bikes are a blessing!

Tom

 

[red one]

I've owned both. On my first bike I bought my 250Lawasaki LTD had a chain. I'm trying to think but I remember having to lube and adjust the chain every 3K miles. I don't think it was a O ring chain so that was probably right. My 83 Kawasaki had a shaft drive and I kept it 17 years as it was good to go on the shaft drive. My ST11 has 85 K trouble free miles. But I think a shaft drive is just as vunerable to abuse. I had a friend who bought a new 2017 Goldwing and destroyed the shaft drive. He was showing off to his Harley friends doing burn outs and racing that thing with hard launches well.....it did not take long. The reason why mine has lasted so long is I ride like a senior citizen. No burn out or Jack rabbit starts for me. And I'm changing that final drive oil every four years

 

[bdalameda]

I used to think I would never own another chain drive bike. That being said the last two newer bikes I have owned have had chains. My Africa twin is chain drive and it has been easy and very low maintenance. It has been two years since I have made any chain adjustment and it is still within spec. The newer o-ring chains are long lasting and require little maintenance. I lube my chain with PJ1 Blue Label lubricant every now and then mainly just to lube the sprockets and to add a little protection against moisture and corrosion as I live on the Pacific Coast. This lubricant does not fly-off and contaminate everything like the old days. On the Africa Twin Forum many riders are getting 25-30K miles out of a chain with little maintenance. Those that have automatic oilers do quite a bit better and I've seen reports of 50K miles on original chains and sprockets with oilers. In my opinion most people tend to over lube and over-tighten their chains. I always run my chain on the loose side but I do have a full chain guide installed on my Africa Twin. The Africa twin chains change tension quite a lot due to the suspension geometry and around 9 inches of wheel travel. I've got about 20K miles on my chain now and it still looks new with no appreciable wear.

 

[Sadlsor]

In my opinion most people tend to over lube and over-tighten their chains.

Over-tightening is particularly wear-inducing to chains on dual sports, as they typically have more suspension travel than pure streetbikes, thus stressing and stretching a chain to a larger degree, which as one might expect, wears both sprockets faster at the same time. So yes, a little looser is a lot better.
Note to self: probably not the time or place to bring up the dreaded "which is the best chain lube", so I won't do it.
So please excuse me now, while I go duck and cover...

 

[RaYzerman]

Agree run the chain on the looser side of the spec. Takes two minutes to squirt some of your fave chain lube/wax after a 500 mile day.... I personally like the convenience of the IPone cans with the self-storing straw.

 

[the Ferret]

I know BMW had a final drive issue (reportedly affecting 5% of the BMW's) but I don't recall shaft drives being particularly bothersome on Japanese bikes...or Moto Guzzi's for that matter. I hate to think how many millions of miles have been put on Goldwing's and FJR's shaft drives since 1976, and although I am sure there have been some failures, I'm also sure that number has been so small as to be considered outliers.

Although today's chains are less problematic than they were prior to the invention of the sealed O ring and X ring chains, they are still problematic, in that if you ride a chain drive bike on a tour, you cannot take off without the tools and lube to service that chain on the road. Nobody I know takes off with tools to service their shaft systems. Additionally, many of us have driven a hundred thousand miles or more on shaft drive bikes with very little maintenance, some moly on the splines and a few ounces of rear end fluid once a year. If you ride 100,000 miles on a chain drive bike you are for certain, without doubt, going to have to change out the whole system, chain plus front and rear sprockets, at least twice probably more.

Didn't WOQNX just turn over 350,000 miles on his ST? Wonder if he has had a shaft failure? Can you imagine how many sets of chains and sprockets he would have had to replace in that mileage had his ST been chain drive?

Chain systems are very reliable (although they do fail too), relatively cheap to manufacture and replace, but IMO best used on motorcycles not meant to be ridden a lot of miles because of their finite life. At least that's my opinion. But like I said earlier MOST motorcyclists don't ride many miles and don't keep their bikes very long, so a chain for them is not an issue, they are never going to replace it anyway.