ST1100 - Love it or List it? (BMW R1200RT)

[jacMA]

Hi All,

So I'm pretty sure what kind of answers I'll get here, but here goes. My 2000 ST1100 has been a great girl, and we've done a lot together. Lately, I just had a hankering for something different. It may be due to her letting my down on a trip from Boston to Florida, but that was on me. I hate to say this, but sometimes I feel like she's just not as sexy as I want anymore. Also doing long rides, the throttle locks just aren't making it, and the urning for cruise control is in the air. All that said, I'm thinking about a 2005 BMW R1200RT or 200x Triumph 1050 ST. I keep going back-and-forth about keeping on the ST or changing partners. If I stray, I know I'll miss the long range and the smooth engine. I will appreciate cruise control, lighter weight, and fuel injection though. If I keep her, I'm looking at a full water hose replacement this winter. I could have both <smile> A real option is to have both and see - domestic tranquility be damned

Thoughts?

Here she is before Florida trip, with a shorty on, and some of the other family. I've done the "red wire bypass" and clear lens swap among other care and TLC.



Sometimes I think maybe a better windscreen? The lip is great, but again, not sexy - okay, I'm old, that's why I have a VFR and Ducati for the crisis.

Here's the RT. Not sure I'll be happy going from smooth 4cyl to Boxer



The Triumph is also a looker - chain drive, I know

 

[Erdoc48]

The ‘purists’ (like me) will say keep what you have. That said, sometimes change can be good (or bad). The RT is a very good bike (I rented one in 2008 that was I think a 2007 model) and it had very good power (yes, different than a V4 in character). Lots of storage in the hard bags as well. I would say the only negative to it is that it’s a new bike to you (to learn, but usually not a big deal) and it is 20 years old now (so if it’s low mileage and well maintained, might be like a new bike to you). The ST isn’t worth too much these days (dollar wise) so maybe get the RT if you’re really looking to change, and once you have it and have used it some, decide which to keep and which to sell (assuming the RT is much less money due to age). Or, if you have the space, just keep them both (variety is nice). Lots of us here have more than one bike. Good luck in whatever you decide. There’s RT owners here as well and they speak very highly of them. The maintenance (hoses) on the ST isn’t too bad of a job, just some disassembly.

EDIT: I see at the bottom of your post, you have 4 bikes listed (don’t know if that’s current or past bikes). If they’re all current, then storage may be an issue…

 

[jacMA]

EDIT: I see at the bottom of your post, you have 4 bikes listed (don’t know if that’s current or past bikes). If they’re all current, then storage may be an issue…

...yeah, those are current. I store some at a friend's, but my wife does notice ;-) You know, they say you need a 2-hour bike, a 2-day bike, and a 2-week bike...I think it's "they" and not just me.

 

[dduelin]

I had two 2007 RTs and they are really fun bikes. Reliable for a BMW and easy to work on, probably the best 2000s era sport tourer out there but I would avoid 2005-2006 models. These have servo (power) brakes and if the ABS module (ABS is standard) goes out it's difficult at this time to find a rebuilt module. Some owners delete the ABS and keeping riding. 2007 - 2009 models do not have this problem.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

I could have both <smile> A real option is to have both and see - domestic tranquility be damned

That's thinking straight.

 

[jacMA]

I had two 2007 RTs and they are really fun bikes. Reliable for a BMW and easy to work on, probably the best 2000s era sport tourer out there but I would avoid 2005-2006 models. These have servo (power) brakes and if the ABS module (ABS is standard) goes out it's difficult at this time to find a rebuilt module. Some owners delete the ABS and keeping riding. 2007 - 2009 models do not have this problem.

When I started looking at older R's a few years ago, I had set in my mind that I would do an ABS bypass/delete. That said, thank you for reminding me. People have also complained about the FD, but not sure if that's design, or under maint.

Unfortunately, I probably won't/can't get rid of my ST since I've had good memories...but that's also how I get in trouble.

 

[Mellow]

You know what they say "Happy Bike, Happy Life"...

 

[Uncle Phil]

Several true electronic cruise control options for the ST1100.
I have MCCruise on all of mine.
Carbs are not an issue if you run the bike regularly.
But you do have to learn to work on them yourself.

 

[Daboo]

People have also complained about the FD, but not sure if that's design, or under maint.

You should take those complaints about the FD seriously. (Now I'm going to piss off Mellow and other RT owners. Sigh...)

I replaced my 2011 NT700V with a BMW F800GT. Belt drive. I joined the BMW MOA and spent some time on their forum. You don't have to join to browse the forum and do some searching in the applicable forum sections.



I could be wrong...I usually am. But the older RTs had a lot of FD issues. It astounded me because my NT700V had a shaft drive. It seemed like a no maintenance kind of thing that only went wrong if the splines weren't lubed when the rear tire was changed. Otherwise, there were riders on the NT-Owners forum who had well over 100,000 trouble-free miles on their bikes. But the BMW final drive seemed to be a ticking time bomb ready to take you out at any time.

There was one post that sticks in my memory. A rider from Texas took 3 weeks off to go to Alaska on his GS. Somewhere in Alaska, his final drive failed with no warning. There were no parts in Alaska at all, and the only two motorcycle shops in the area said they didn't have the tools to repair it even if he had the parts. He probably spent a week getting there and now his epic Alaska adventure is dead in the water. I never heard what happened to him. Did he spend his vacation getting a trailer to tow it home with? Did he find somewhere to store it over the winter till the next summer? Did he scrap it and find another way home? It's the stuff made for stories to tell your grandkids...but not fun at the time.

I don't know why Honda could get it right and BMW couldn't. It boggled my mind. One member of the BMW MOA forum said that was just part of the wonderful BMW experience. If so, I wouldn't want that.

I've read where a lot of BMW boxer owners buy the extended warranty and before it expires they trade in the bike for a new model. Again, I could be wrong, but you should check around to see if that's true or not.

If $$$ are tight, I'd stick with the ST1100 you already have. Clement Salvadori had or still has an ST1100. He's legendary in motorcycle circles. If you're looking for something lighter, I'd broaden my search to other brands. And of course, it depends on your size. What fits me, might not fit you. I was extremely pleased with my 2014 BMW F800GT. A really competent sport tourer. I covered all the states west of the Continental Divide and Alberta and British Columbia with it. And at 470 lbs wet, you could park it almost anywhere and back out with no issues. You can pick up one of those for about $5K. BTW, belt drive -- not a shaft drive. As much as I loved my F800GT, my BMW F900XR (chain drive) is even better. But now you're getting into some $$$ that you may not be wanting to spend.

Bottom line, I wouldn't necessarily sell the ST1100 for the RT. You could be trading a really reliable bike for one with potential issues.

Chris

 

[Mellow]

You should take those complaints about the FD seriously. (Now I'm going to piss off Mellow and other RT owners. Sigh...)

Nah, the reason I went with the R1250RT was I felt BMW finally got a FD that was Honda-like.

That being said, I don't have ANY experience on pre-1250 BMW bikes other than a friend that did over 150k on an 1150 but he had a friend that was a BMW mechanic and would work on his bike for a discount on the side and I remember him doing a lot of 'stuff' to keep it going. In the end, he was on track to beat the 48 state ride record when an engine bearing? went somewhere in Nebraska.

I think the current BMW FDs are good and wouldn't worry about them. The current issue is the same ALL shaft drive bikes have to deal with - u-joint failures. The ST and Wing have had them, mine went at 50k some have gone sooner some much later and some not at all. Same w/RTs and I think that holds true for the 1200 series of RTs.

On a side note... if your ST does have a u-joint issue, and you catch it, it's a big deal to replace. On the BMW, it's so easy to access/replace that an oil change probably takes longer.

So, do some research and prioritize the things that are important to you and match the bikes that fit those requirements...

 

[dduelin]

You should take those complaints about the FD seriously. (Now I'm going to piss off Mellow and other RT owners. Sigh...)

I replaced my 2011 NT700V with a BMW F800GT. Belt drive. I joined the BMW MOA and spent some time on their forum. You don't have to join to browse the forum and do some searching in the applicable forum sections.



I could be wrong...I usually am. But the older RTs had a lot of FD issues. It astounded me because my NT700V had a shaft drive. It seemed like a no maintenance kind of thing that only went wrong if the splines weren't lubed when the rear tire was changed. Otherwise, there were riders on the NT-Owners forum who had well over 100,000 trouble-free miles on their bikes. But the BMW final drive seemed to be a ticking time bomb ready to take you out at any time.

There was one post that sticks in my memory. A rider from Texas took 3 weeks off to go to Alaska on his GS. Somewhere in Alaska, his final drive failed with no warning. There were no parts in Alaska at all, and the only two motorcycle shops in the area said they didn't have the tools to repair it even if he had the parts. He probably spent a week getting there and now his epic Alaska adventure is dead in the water. I never heard what happened to him. Did he spend his vacation getting a trailer to tow it home with? Did he find somewhere to store it over the winter till the next summer? Did he scrap it and find another way home? It's the stuff made for stories to tell your grandkids...but not fun at the time.

I don't know why Honda could get it right and BMW couldn't. It boggled my mind. One member of the BMW MOA forum said that was just part of the wonderful BMW experience. If so, I wouldn't want that.

I've read where a lot of BMW boxer owners buy the extended warranty and before it expires they trade in the bike for a new model. Again, I could be wrong, but you should check around to see if that's true or not.

If $$$ are tight, I'd stick with the ST1100 you already have. Clement Salvadori had or still has an ST1100. He's legendary in motorcycle circles. If you're looking for something lighter, I'd broaden my search to other brands. And of course, it depends on your size. What fits me, might not fit you. I was extremely pleased with my 2014 BMW F800GT. A really competent sport tourer. I covered all the states west of the Continental Divide and Alberta and British Columbia with it. And at 470 lbs wet, you could park it almost anywhere and back out with no issues. You can pick up one of those for about $5K. BTW, belt drive -- not a shaft drive. As much as I loved my F800GT, my BMW F900XR (chain drive) is even better. But now you're getting into some $$$ that you may not be wanting to spend.

Bottom line, I wouldn't necessarily sell the ST1100 for the RT. You could be trading a really reliable bike for one with potential issues.

Chris

What as well tell it like it is. Or isn't, doesn't matter because confirmation bias is what it is.

Google Search

 

[jacMA]

What as well tell it like it is. Or isn't, doesn't matter because confirmation bias is what it is.

Google Search

Like people say, if it happens to you, it's 100%. I always wonder about FD issues and if it's maintenance - just saying. I change my FD oil at the stated interval, lube the splines on tire changes, and obviously haven't had issue. That said, this seems to go suddenly, and I have read more about them from BMW than Honda. All that said, if I can get a 2005 in well maintained condition with 40k on it, for $2k or under, I may go for it, do the ABS bypass, and hope on the FD...or I may talk myself out of it. In my years I've looked at quite a few bikes where I've made a fair offer to the Seller because of these kinds of potential "known" issues. They think it's worth more, and I invariable tell them that they need to sell to someone who doesn't know the bike <smile>

 

[Mykllee]

I just picked up my second 2005 R1200ST last month. Sold the first one 5 years ago, and could never get it out of my mind. It was one of the finest bikes I've ever ridden, but at 55,000 miles I let the final drive fear mongering get in my head. Now I've decided to just not worry about what could happen, but probably won't, and enjoy the bike. I paid $3400 and it's got 22,000 miles, so if things go south, I think it's a good gamble for a small investment. I love the telelever front end, and the whizzy brakes are the best I've ever had. Fuel strip even works, what's not to love?

 

[dduelin]

Like people say, if it happens to you, it's 100%. I always wonder about FD issues and if it's maintenance - just saying. I change my FD oil at the stated interval, lube the splines on tire changes, and obviously haven't had issue. That said, this seems to go suddenly, and I have read more about them from BMW than Honda. All that said, if I can get a 2005 in well maintained condition with 40k on it, for $2k or under, I may go for it, do the ABS bypass, and hope on the FD...or I may talk myself out of it. In my years I've looked at quite a few bikes where I've made a fair offer to the Seller because of these kinds of potential "known" issues. They think it's worth more, and I invariable tell them that they need to sell to someone who doesn't know the bike <smile>

One of the things here is that BMW is a low volume manufacturer and built quite a few models of shaft drive bikes contemporary to the ST1100 and more models during the ST1300 run. People throw out the "FD issue" without identifying the year, model or even the problem they "read about, heard about, happened to a guy who knew a friend of mine" was in the final drive, a drive shaft, or FD bearing failure. As an aside, even with more reported mechanical issues as a brand BMW owners are very loyal and buy another one or many after a serious problem. Why? Snob appeal or because they simply are more fun to ride and offer higher levels of handling, suspension, braking, rider features?

By now a 2004-2009 R1200 RT is a $2000 to $4500 bike. Like STs there can be found low mileage RT garage queens. I consider a 50-60,000 mile RT low mileage, like a Honda ST. I acknowledge there are people that can't afford a $2000 to $4500 financial risk with a recreational toy or they have the money but their personal calculus doesn't allow worry they might have a problem. No problem, ride on brother. Will the chance of a $500 repair (DIY) put you off... only you can know.

No 20 to 30 year old motorcycle is immune to a problem that financially "totals" the bike.

 

[red one]

I would think the ST1100 bikes would be the most reliable bikes on the planet....well at least that's been my experiences.Im kinda disapointed at BMW's right now as there is talk or rumors that drive shafts are replaced at 36K as a maintenance item? I heard this from a bunch of BMW guys

 

[jacMA]

One of the things here is that BMW is a low volume manufacturer and built quite a few models of shaft drive bikes contemporary to the ST1100 and more models during the ST1300 run. People throw out the "FD issue" without identifying the year, model or even the problem they "read about, heard about, happened to a guy who knew a friend of mine" was in the final drive, a drive shaft, or FD bearing failure. As an aside, even with more reported mechanical issues as a brand BMW owners are very loyal and buy another one or many after a serious problem. Why? Snob appeal or because they simply are more fun to ride and offer higher levels of handling, suspension, braking, rider features?

By now a 2004-2009 R1200 RT is a $2000 to $4500 bike. Like STs there can be found low mileage RT garage queens. I consider a 50-60,000 mile RT low mileage, like a Honda ST. I acknowledge there are people that can't afford a $2000 to $4500 financial risk with a recreational toy or they have the money but their personal calculus doesn't allow worry they might have a problem. No problem, ride on brother. Will the chance of a $500 repair (DIY) put you off... only you can know.

No 20 to 30 year old motorcycle is immune to a problem that financially "totals" the bike.

...agreed on all points. Sometimes it's nice to just have something that's "new to me", but also, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't I get into this "collecting" mode, and that's where I get in trouble. I do try to buy bikes at a price that I cannot really lose money if they don't work out, and I "really" try to not keep things that don't work out. That said I'm a riding instructor, so I do love bikes - as do we all

 

[Mellow]

I would think the ST1100 bikes would be the most reliable bikes on the planet....well at least that's been my experiences.Im kinda disapointed at BMW's right now as there is talk or rumors that drive shafts are replaced at 36K as a maintenance item? I heard this from a bunch of BMW guys

If you have an R1250 it's done free of charge... and the driveshaft is basically the u-joint. However, it's pretty much the same as the ST when it comes to failures. Some may fail in 30k miles and some may not fail for 100k+ miles. Lots of owners with 80-100k on their bikes are going to get new DSs just because they can lol

As for stats... there are a lot more BMW shaft bikes being ridden than STs so the numbers will be skewed. Also, since that includes the GS variants you have a lot of folks going through 2 feet of water vs road touring type riders so that skews the failures due to the environments being ridden.

Most RT/K1600 riders wouldn't need to worry about DS replacements.. just like ST owners.. until you approach 100k... I'll likely do mine at 100k if I have the bikes that long lol - my ST failed at 50k so my RT is halfway there.. at 51k it will become more reliable.... lol

 

[dduelin]

I would think the ST1100 bikes would be the most reliable bikes on the planet....well at least that's been my experiences.Im kinda disapointed at BMW's right now as there is talk or rumors that drive shafts are replaced at 36K as a maintenance item? I heard this from a bunch of BMW guys

I believe the 36k drive shaft replacement campaign is more of a response to our litigious society. It only takes one $50 million lawsuit to convince a manufacture to just build in the price upfront to charge the buyer for their free driveshaft inspection every 36,000 miles. You help to reinforce my point. It’s an inspection, not a replacement, unless the drive shaft does not meet the criteria for a replacement which apparently very few are but nevertheless, this will be a data point for bashing BMW because they “have to replace” the driveshaft every 36,000 miles.

 

[red one]

If you have an R1250 it's done free of charge... and the driveshaft is basically the u-joint. However, it's pretty much the same as the ST when it comes to failures. Some may fail in 30k miles and some may not fail for 100k+ miles. Lots of owners with 80-100k on their bikes are going to get new DSs just because they can lol

As for stats... there are a lot more BMW shaft bikes being ridden than STs so the numbers will be skewed. Also, since that includes the GS variants you have a lot of folks going through 2 feet of water vs road touring type riders so that skews the failures due to the environments being ridden.

Most RT/K1600 riders wouldn't need to worry about DS replacements.. just like ST owners.. until you approach 100k... I'll likely do mine at 100k if I have the bikes that long lol - my ST failed at 50k so my RT is halfway there.. at 51k it will become more reliable.... lol

Yep I hear you. I was just trying to be proactive in case my 25 y.o. ST bites the dust one of these days. Love the looks of the last gen RT's but the jury is still out on the new gen RTs 1300. As you may have seen my earlier posts the BMW and FJR's were the only game in town. Now Yamaha has retired the FJR so the only true sport touring are the BMW's.

 

[red one]

I believe the 36k drive shaft replacement campaign is more of a response to our litigious society. It only takes one $50 million lawsuit to convince a manufacture to just build in the price upfront to charge the buyer for their free driveshaft every 36,000 miles.

You might be on to something there....new RTs selling over 31K dollars I hear