Engine noise under load - is it normal?

When riding solo, my ST1300 makes some engine noises, pings or knocks, I can't decide the better word, when going up hills in 2nd or 3rd gear. It's wasn't alarming by itself. The manual said that's normal.

Last week, I tried 2-up riding for the first time, and found that the engine made a lot more noise in the same circumstances. The noises were really loud by comparison and I found that carrying a passenger required me to get into a lower gear than normal compared with riding solo.

I've read about all the power this bike makes, but I can't quite say I am experiencing it. It's not as much power as I imagined it to be capable of. But I really have nothing else to compare it to. I though the bike would cruise effortlessly with a passenger.

I'm wondering if the engine noises I hear are normal and expected when riding with more weight (130lbs more, and I'm 165).

The bike has just 12,500 miles, and I find the same noises when using premium high octane gas from both Mobile and Shell.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Joel

My first guess would be a fuel issue. A motor head I do not claim to be, so I can't offer anything more. If you're down in 2nd or 3rd gear though, you should have all the power you need, and more, even two up. Maybe a bad/loose plug or wire??

Bad knock sensor?

Helitronix said:

The bike has just 12,500 miles, and I find the same noises when using premium high octane gas from both Mobile and Shell.

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If you have been running lower octane regular, it will take several tanks to make using the premium noticeable. I had the same thing happen when I bought my 2003. I did not know it was suppose to use premium. Tried octane booster and that did nothing. After running several tanks of premium, my bike does not ping or knock. There are 1300 owners that have not had the pinging burning regular, I am not one of them. Two up may/will effect performance, you are trying to move more weight.

Joel, can you go to a local RTE or find another local St owner from which to cross compare?

My ST is only on its third tank of gas under my ownership. I think the dealer filled it with regular low octane gas. I filled it with two tanks of 93/94. It's quite possible that it's suffering from residual low octane gas. I can certainly just ride it for a another tank or two and see what it does, to see if the higher octane gas helps.

There are some folks in the local area, so yes, I'll have to make an opportunity to meet some folks in person to compare. I suppose that one of them could try my bike to see what they think.

I'll give it a few tanks and see what develops.

I was wondering though if the pinging would have a dramatic impact on power, or if that's really unrelated?

I'll do some reading about the knock sensor. Hopefully I'll find if there's a diagnostic I can perform without taking too much of the bike apart.

Joel

Just a thought. What RPM range are you in when you hear the noise? I know you said 2nd or 3rd gear, but if your under 2000 RPM in those gears, it's gonna make some noise if you accelerate. I know mine does.

John

Helitronix said:

I was wondering though if the pinging would have a dramatic impact on power, or if that's really unrelated?

Joel

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In my experience (with other bikes, not my ST), pinging occurs when the engine is lugging - i.e. in too high a gear and I open the throttle. The engine at this point is not producing the power I want. Since pinging is early detonation of fuel instead of burning of the fuel, yes, power produced during pinging will be lower than power produced at the same rpm/throttle setting with no pinging. I'm not sure if the word dramatic accurately describes the difference - noticeable would be my pick. There are other causes of pinging. If you don't clear it up with the higher octane fuel, have a competent mechanic take a look at it. Pinging can cause serious damage if it is prolonged or severe.

As far as power, this is in the eyes of the beholder. My ST certainly cranks out all that I want (notice i did not say 'all the power i could want'). It certainly accelerates effortlessly whenever I need to pass another car. Downshifting is optional. And you only have 15 lbs on me. I'd check to see you are firing on all 4 cylinders.

At what point do you typically upshift?

--Mark

I rarely exceed 4000rpm in any gear. I shift by sound, and that has lead me to shift the ST in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range more often than not.

I've tried shifting at higher RPM, say 4000, to see what that was like. The engine ran fine at that rpm, but my ears weren't used to hearing it run that fast so I didn't do that too much and resumed shifting at lower RPM.

I know that my ear isn't necessarily correct as far as the ST is concerned. I've simply been accustomed to driving manual transmission cars for 25 years, so I can only compare it to that.

This bike should have more power than you need 1 or 2 up.

Try some Seafoam in the tank.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Mine rattles like a diesel . I'm not too concerned about it . The bike runs fine . I've toyed with the idea of adjusted the crank shaft balancers but I believe it has more to do with my shift pattern . Like you , I can eliminate the noise by shifter at higher rpm . I read an article in some magazine one time that said " Bikes make all kinds of noises . Don't worry about it . Just go ride it . "

Sportznut said:

This bike should have more power than you need 1 or 2 up.

Try some Seafoam in the tank.

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Try the Seafoam and go ride it. You should all the power you need. That is very low miles on your bike. It could have set for a long time. Ethanol gas has a very short shelf life. I try to never use it. And if I do, I run it out before I park the bike with some real gas in it.

Helitronix said:

I rarely exceed 4000rpm in any gear. I shift by sound, and that has lead me to shift the ST in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range more often than not.

I've tried shifting at higher RPM, say 4000, to see what that was like. The engine ran fine at that rpm, but my ears weren't used to hearing it run that fast so I didn't do that too much and resumed shifting at lower RPM.

I know that my ear isn't necessarily correct as far as the ST is concerned. I've simply been accustomed to driving manual transmission cars for 25 years, so I can only compare it to that.

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Hi Helitronix,

I think you maybe labouring the engine a bit (based on your post).

At 2500 ~ 3000 revs, I'm only just considering going into second gear and that's on a reasonably flat road.

The ST is a heavy bike and it's needs a bit of momentum to get it moving, especially if heading up hills.

+1 on keeping the lower gears, labouring the engine is not doing it any good so I would not upshift until you are in the 3000 plus revs range solo and 4000 plus two up.... the power is there but a V8 it is not....

If the noise is bothering you then the best solution, if you don't already employ it, is to wear a good set of earplugs.... the bike runs so much smoother and quieter and your hearing will last so much longer..... I wear the Howard Leight pink and yellow plugs that give the maximum sound reduction of any plugs... I can still hear my Autocom for the phone, music or satnav if fitted.

You may also find that not using fifth gear until at least 60 mph is better for running too.....

In teaching advanced riding we advise to be in the "right" gear at all times, that is the gear that provides the best acceleration and the optimum engine braking, not that there is a lot of that with the ST, so in town I seldom got out of third with the ST, and fifth becomes an overdrive for highway use....

Don't lug it, keep it spinning and over 3000 revs minimum solo and I think you will find the bike so much better....

My opinion is that you are shifting WAY too soon and lugging the engine. That's very hard on the motor and not much fun. Rev her out and she will respond with more power. My bike makes most of her power up around 8k rpm's. I don't go up there every day, but she sure likes it when I do.

Joel, If you have the time we are having a tech day in 2 weeks just up the road in NH. Take a look in the tech events forum for all the details. We will have several here with 1300's that could give it the once over if that helps. My guess is you are just shifting too soon though.

Dave

Helitronix said:

When riding solo, my ST1300 makes some engine noises, pings or knocks, I can't decide the better word, when going up hills in 2nd or 3rd gear. It's wasn't alarming by itself. The manual said that's normal.

Last week, I tried 2-up riding for the first time, and found that the engine made a lot more noise in the same circumstances. The noises were really loud by comparison and I found that carrying a passenger required me to get into a lower gear than normal compared with riding solo.

I've read about all the power this bike makes, but I can't quite say I am experiencing it. It's not as much power as I imagined it to be capable of. But I really have nothing else to compare it to. I though the bike would cruise effortlessly with a passenger.

I'm wondering if the engine noises I hear are normal and expected when riding with more weight (130lbs more, and I'm 165).

The bike has just 12,500 miles, and I find the same noises when using premium high octane gas from both Mobile and Shell.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Joel

Click to expand...

playinatwork said:

My opinion is that you are shifting WAY too soon and lugging the engine. That's very hard on the motor and not much fun. Rev her out and she will respond with more power. My bike makes most of her power up around 8k rpm's. I don't go up there every day, but she sure likes it when I do.

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Use the motor how it was designed to work, stop lugging that poor thing!!

I agree with the comments about shifting at slightly higher RPM's. If I'm accelerating, it's never less than 3,000 RPM. If I'm just sort of coasting, I'll let it get down to 2,500 (maybe even a little less), but I won't open the throttle at those RPM's.

Helitronix said:

I rarely exceed 4000rpm in any gear. I shift by sound, and that has lead me to shift the ST in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range more often than not.

Click to expand...

A few others beat me to the punch, but let me throw in my [-]two[/-] 25 cents: What you're hearing is the box-of-rocks sound of an engine that's unhappy because it's being subjected to too much load at too few RPM. Continuing to ride like that won't be doing your engine any favors.

Let me introduce you to a dyno chart of the ST. There are four lines on this one, but the one you care about is the red one that runs horizontally across the middle. That's torque. (The other red line is horsepower; the blue lines are the same but with a different exhaust system installed.) Study the torque line carefully. It's important.

In the rev ranges you've been riding, the engine is barely awake and stumbling around the bedroom looking for a bathrobe. You're getting practically nothing out of it. Not far beyond that, at just above 3,500, the line starts to rise. This is where the machine stops potting around and starts pulling. That continues to the peak at 6,250, and that range is where the engine does its best work. 3,500 to 5,000 is where the serviceable torque is for most riding, and 5,000 to 6,250 is where to go if you really want it to sing. 4,000-5,500 where you should be doing most of your accelerating. It puts you in a spot where twisting the throttle does what twisting the throttle is supposed to do, and in most cases there will be no need to downshift. If you find yourself downshifting a lot even for modest acceleration, you're running it one gear too high.

Bottom line: get out there and rev that thang. Tell your ear to stick it in its... um... ear. The red area on the tach is where you're over-revving it, and ECM won't let you do that for very long. Anywhere else is fair game.

I note from your introduction that you're a new rider, and this is your first bike. If you've been riding the ST like it's a car since you bought it, tread carefully when you first explore the torque curve, because this thing does go when prodded. Bring a rag to wipe the grin off your face. :burnout

--Mark