Engine dies at speed - diagnosis assistance request

Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
352
Location
IN, Indianapolis
Bike
1996 ST1100
STOC #
8309
Engine dies at speed - fuel pump related?

Ran into a slight mechanical issue on my way home from vacation last weekend and would love some input on what might have caused this.

1996 ST1100
38,xxx miles (bought it with 22,000 on it 14 months ago)

In the week prior to the below, I rode it 900 miles to the vacation destination and also rode it periodically throughout the week while on vacation ? it ran fine the entire time and I?ve never had this issue surface before. The only other aspect of the trip that was outside the norm is that it sat outside (uncovered) during that week when it is normally kept in my garage at home.

Day One

After running at interstate speed for 2 hours, we got stuck in some stop/go traffic for about 45 minutes on the interstate because of a crash ahead. Air temperature was in the low 80s and without any wind movement over the radiator, the temp gauge was showing the bike was heated up, but not past the point where I?ve seen it before in other stop/go situations.

Once traffic was moving again and we had been at speed (65-80 mph) for about 10-15 minutes, the bike ?died? while moving. At first it sounded like it wasn?t firing on all 4 cylinders, but eventually all that was keeping the motor running was the fact that I was in gear and the bike was still rolling. I got over to the side of the interstate. It would turn over, but acted like it didn?t want to fire.

After trying to start it for a few minutes, I called the nearest person on the RAN list who suggested it might be a vapor lock situation caused by the charcoal filter being clogged up. After removing the gas cap and replacing it, the bike started right up without the choke.

The bike ran perfectly the remainder of the day ? another 6-8 hours.



Day Two

The bike started up and ran fine all day 6-8 hours (including my first trip through Deals Gap). Late in the day we hit stop/go traffic for about 30 minutes on the interstate again. Once we cleared the traffic and were running at interstate speeds for about 10 minutes the same thing happened again.

Over the course of about 10 minutes I tried the gas cap removal trick that seemed to work the day prior ? but the bike would not fire.

After about 10 minutes of trying (and another call to another RAN list contact), I slide the choke lever down ? of the way and the bike fired right up. It ran perfectly fine the remainder of the trip.


Thoughts? Suggestions on where to look first? Questions for me that would help us diagnose the issue?
 
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bdalameda

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I would first suspect the vacuum fuel shutoff has stopped working. It is easy to bypass this and check this out. Fuel pump could be suspect. Since putting on the choke seemed to help it definitely is fuel related. Oh and check the fuel fliter.
 

Gymbo

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I would first suspect the vacuum fuel shutoff has stopped working. It is easy to bypass this and check this out. Fuel pump could be suspect. Since putting on the choke seemed to help it definitely is fuel related. Oh and check the fuel fliter.
:plus1: My first thought was the vacuum shutoff valve and fuel pump output too.
 

draboo

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I m in the process of solving the same problem. (from Scooters linky).

I thought it was the gas tank vent hose. I let it sit overnight, opened the cap,cranked it over and still no fuel.

Then I bypassed the vacuum shutoff valve. That worked for about 1500 miles.

It "ran out of gas" with 3/4 tank in extremely hot weather. I just ordered a Airtex E2486 fuel pump plus a Carter STS-8 strainer from Amazon.Total was around 73 bucks including tax.

Also gonna replace the filter, tho it seems clean enough considering the flo when the pump DOES work.
 
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The issue rears up after stop and go traffic is a clue. I think your fuel is heating up during this period and causing the pump to halt. You'll find a link to my writeup on this problem in that linky.
 

draboo

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The issue rears up after stop and go traffic is a clue. I think your fuel is heating up during this period and causing the pump to halt. You'll find a link to my writeup on this problem in that linky.
I read that article through a few times and am in total agreement with this theory. I m hoping the new pump will eliminate those cool down instances. :)
 
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smunderdog
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Thread update. Wrote the original thread last summer. Took a ride to ATL and back a year later in hot weather after not doing any of the fixes suggested - and it happened again. Fuel level was about 1/3 tank IIRC, so that would point towards the fuel pump heat syndrome. Let the bike cool down for 15-20 minutes, fired it back up and got to a filling station. Filled it up and kept an eye on fuel levels the rest of the trip and didn't have any more issues.

Then a month later I rode it to work (short 8 mile commute) and it ran just fine on the way in...after work it fired up normally, but started chugging just a block into my ride home. Limped it another block and then it died on me - it started back up with some choke, but would die as I attempted to get going...

Left it overnight and came back the next day and did the valve bypass in about 20 minutes on my lunch hour. Rode it home without any problems whatsoever (that was last night). Will update as I continue to ride...

In the meantime, I'm watching the other threads related to fuel pump replacement. It appears:

draboo, Kevin Powers, ST_SHP and The Cheese have successfully replaced the OEM with the Airtex pump that sits in the tank just like the OEM (Draboo's article here), however LT Rider has gone through 2 of them with very few miles after installation and hasn't been able to determine why.

Bigmak96 has successfully installed an external Facet pump.

Honestly I had been leaning towards the Airtex simply because I like the idea of replacing the OEM with something similar, but LT Rider's experience (until the cause for the failure is determined) has me momentarily pausing. Luckily I don't need to do it immediately... :)
 
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At this point, I've concluded that the pumps really don't go bad. Some are just more marginal than others in terms of impeller clearance and motor quality so they pump weaker and are easier to lock up when the housing gets hot. I no longer own my ST1100 but in hindsight, I would go with something else (rather than replace it with OEM and hope you got something closer to center of the distribution.) Not sure how the Airtex motors and housings are but I certainly would start there.
 
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I know Bigmak96 has been happy with his Facet pump.

If it were me I would look at going that route. I think he has his mounted near where the fuel filter goes. At least that is where I recall seeing it.
 
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smunderdog
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Yes, to my recollection it is mounted where the vacuum valve usually is, which is right next to the fuel filter (which is actually another part of the equation I'll be replacing).

There are happy campers with both options - just a few more data points on the Airtex side. To my knowledge, noone else has done the Facet pump.
 
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smunderdog
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Update - took first longish ride since bypassing the vaccum valve - rode about 200 miles on backroads in southern IN this weekend as at the very end of the ride I was back on the superslab for 30 minutes when it happened again - engine loses power at speed and runs as though it is starved for fuel and then dies on me. Fuel tank indicated 1/2 tank. Pulled over, let it sit for about 20 minutes and then was able to get it started using the choke and turning the starter over for about 10 seconds before it would stay running.

Anything else I should look into before I go downt the road of replacing the fuel pump? I haven't replaced the fuel filter yet and to my knowledge it is the original...
 
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