dteel
I just hope they are as good at putting motors together as they apparently are at getting them apart.
100% Failure on Leak down Test
- Thread starter EdsST
- Start date
Put it in gear and push it, that will tell you if you have compression.
Ask your dealer if they heard of a bore scope, easy and don't have to pull the heads.
If the starter spins and the engine doesn't, there is a one way clutch, check that.
so on and so forth.
Ask your dealer if they heard of a bore scope, easy and don't have to pull the heads.
If the starter spins and the engine doesn't, there is a one way clutch, check that.
so on and so forth.
FJRHank
Good luck with that Ed, I'm assuming you're over at the new yama / honda shop, and I've heard good things about them, better then the old honda alone shop.
To me, assuming the engine is turning, as others have said also, what in the wide wide world of sports would cause complete loss of compression in all cylinders other then timing chain?
I'm not seeing it, hopefully they have an explanation?
Good Luck,
To me, assuming the engine is turning, as others have said also, what in the wide wide world of sports would cause complete loss of compression in all cylinders other then timing chain?
I'm not seeing it, hopefully they have an explanation?
Good Luck,
You can say that again.
Carbon on the heads, with zero compression there should be pieces of valve on the heads.
A cheap bore scope can be purchase for ~$400. If I were a professional mechanic, I would at least have one of those. The one we have at work would slide into the spark plug hole and you can get a pretty good view of the piston and cylinder and maybe the valves.
But that's all moot. The heads are pulled.
If you don't have a second bike, I would say you are through riding for a while.
But that's all moot. The heads are pulled.
If you don't have a second bike, I would say you are through riding for a while.
Muchmore
Train killer
Oh man this deal sounds like it's going south. I would go over right now and start taking pictures maybe post some on here so we can at least take a look. Nobody is in a better position as the mechanic to diagnose/resolve the problem but we as a group might be able to ease or confirm some fears.
Ripshod
Prym8 on 2 wheels
Then Skunkape might be onto it. If it lost complete compression for some reason (timing chain obviously), then the engine will spin with very little resistance and it won't sound like you'd expect it to sound.
Best of luck, Ed. Take the mechanics a few barbecue dinners and a six-pack. You want them to like you a lot at this point.
wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
If the timing chain had jumped or there were a bad valve I can't help wonder how that would not be patently obvious when the heads were removed. My ST1100 suffered a burned valve and after confirming spark and fuel, I set about performing a compression test all cylinders were normal until I got to #4 which returned a big fat "0"! I double checked my compression gauge and all the fittings by going back and checking #2 and then #4 again. Still "0".
That's when I carefully set the crank to position the #4 cylinder at TDC compression (not TDC exhaust!) and hooked up a low flow of air to the spark plug hole. I listened at the oil cap, the air cleaner intake and at the exhaust. You don't need a stethescope as the air flow was clearly audible at the end of the exhaust system. All this was done before any disassembly and by now I knew I had an exhaust valve problem on #4 before digging in. When I did open it up I found this:
Pretty darned obvious what the problem was!!
That's when I carefully set the crank to position the #4 cylinder at TDC compression (not TDC exhaust!) and hooked up a low flow of air to the spark plug hole. I listened at the oil cap, the air cleaner intake and at the exhaust. You don't need a stethescope as the air flow was clearly audible at the end of the exhaust system. All this was done before any disassembly and by now I knew I had an exhaust valve problem on #4 before digging in. When I did open it up I found this:
Pretty darned obvious what the problem was!!
THIS IS CRAZY!
You can't lose all compression on all 4 cylinders like that. Lets say you threw both cam chains at the same time. (HOW?) At least 1 maybe 2 cylinders would have their valves closed and pass a leak down test.
This sounds like a good shop to take t-stat problems to. They won't send you on your way saying no problem found.
You can't lose all compression on all 4 cylinders like that. Lets say you threw both cam chains at the same time. (HOW?) At least 1 maybe 2 cylinders would have their valves closed and pass a leak down test.
This sounds like a good shop to take t-stat problems to. They won't send you on your way saying no problem found.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,143
- Age
- 73
- Location
- Yuma, Arizona. AKA Paradise Lost
- Bike
- '08 Connie C14
If it's an exhaust valve, you can hear it in the exhaust. If it's an intake valve, you can hear it through the carbs (throttle bodies). I don't get the 100% failure. Bent valves in every hole? I suppose it could happen, but...
I suppose if you broke the timing belt it could leave all the valves not set. Maybe. Please keep us informed...
I suppose if you broke the timing belt it could leave all the valves not set. Maybe. Please keep us informed...
It is such a pretty red bike - oh, I mean a newer model.
Quote:"The starter was turning, but the engine wasn't turning over..."
Did anyone do a load test on the battery before going all Tazmanian Devil on the diagnostic stuff?
Las Vegas and back (5,000 miles) in high heat is very, very tough on a battery. Sometimes a battery will hold what appears to be a normal charge but its internal plates are corroded. Thus, it may have enough power to light the lights, turn the starter, move the windshield, etc but it doesn't have enough power to start the bike. A load test is when you put a voltagemeter on the battery and start the bike. If the volts drop below 10 when the engine cranks, the battery failed the load test and needs to be replaced.
The only way I know how to do a load test is while the battery is on the bike. There may be different methods available that you can try while, unfortunately, your bike is in pieces.
While my guess is that the battery is the problem, I actually hope it is not given what has happened to the bike so far....
Quote:"The starter was turning, but the engine wasn't turning over..."
Did anyone do a load test on the battery before going all Tazmanian Devil on the diagnostic stuff?
Las Vegas and back (5,000 miles) in high heat is very, very tough on a battery. Sometimes a battery will hold what appears to be a normal charge but its internal plates are corroded. Thus, it may have enough power to light the lights, turn the starter, move the windshield, etc but it doesn't have enough power to start the bike. A load test is when you put a voltagemeter on the battery and start the bike. If the volts drop below 10 when the engine cranks, the battery failed the load test and needs to be replaced.
The only way I know how to do a load test is while the battery is on the bike. There may be different methods available that you can try while, unfortunately, your bike is in pieces.
While my guess is that the battery is the problem, I actually hope it is not given what has happened to the bike so far....
I think a BS check is in order.
OTOH, you will feel light and refreshed at the end of this - because you're being taken to the cleaner$$$.
OTOH, you will feel light and refreshed at the end of this - because you're being taken to the cleaner$$$.
OP
OP
Latest Drama - the technician that was working on my bike has quit - right in the middle of the job. Apparently, from what the service manager says, he knew he was going to. Why did he even take on the job if he knew he was going to quit. Now somebody has to come behind him and first determine what he's done and them try and solve that issue before he can even start to work on the problem. 
Anyway While I was there I took some pics of the bike and the head and piston
As you can see its totally torn down, the service manager talked about the carbon build up on the pistons and heads. Don't know if that is issue - he seems to think so, the other service manager says he thinks that some how the timing has jumped (timing chains weren't broke - thinks maybe a tensioner failed). But now we are kinda starting over - with a new technician going to work on it
Anyway While I was there I took some pics of the bike and the head and piston
As you can see its totally torn down, the service manager talked about the carbon build up on the pistons and heads. Don't know if that is issue - he seems to think so, the other service manager says he thinks that some how the timing has jumped (timing chains weren't broke - thinks maybe a tensioner failed). But now we are kinda starting over - with a new technician going to work on it
Ripshod
Prym8 on 2 wheels
The bright side: extended warranty.
The down side: a never-ending nightmare.
Sorry, hopefully it won't be that bad in the long run. Here's hoping you get it back soon and in good repair, regardless of what was actually wrong with it.
The down side: a never-ending nightmare.
Sorry, hopefully it won't be that bad in the long run. Here's hoping you get it back soon and in good repair, regardless of what was actually wrong with it.
Were there any other symptoms of a problem on your 5,000 mile trip to Vegas? Very strange that the bike didn't start the day after the trip.
That would make me cry to see my bike like that for possibly no reason. The carbon story don't jive. I hope they have someone who has had an ST apart before to put it back together. Hope it all works out.
I really don't see anything wrong with it. Hard to tell but in the top photo the intake valve on the left might show something but I think it's just the photo. Because your bike was parked when running and then would not start the next day I find it hard to understand the dealers reasoning for what was done. This should have been diagnosed long before the engine was stripped. It almost seems the tech did this as a FU to the dealer he worked for.
The only plus I see in this is thank God the tech wasn't a surgeon.
This should be used as a learning experience for all who participate in this forum.
If you're having a problem with your bike post it here first, the knowledge base here is high and this can help in your decisions before taking it to a dealer. Warranty or not.
The only plus I see in this is thank God the tech wasn't a surgeon.
This should be used as a learning experience for all who participate in this forum.
If you're having a problem with your bike post it here first, the knowledge base here is high and this can help in your decisions before taking it to a dealer. Warranty or not.
Try a push start to see if it's the starter or battery.
Unfortunately the suggestions here were too late. My reason for suggesting to post first take to dealer second. Read wjbertrand's post, that's how it's supposed to be done.