2009 ST1300P surging around 3,000 RPM. Seems to happen when hot or cold.

Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
59
Age
61
Location
Grant-Valkaria, FL
I don't want to waste anyone's time asking questions that have already been answered and I cannot find an answer to this one. From stopped and in 1st gear, my bike will accelerate seemingly normally until the RPM hits around 3,000 - 3,200, then the power seems to double. This caught me off guard when I was adjusting my helmet and had only one hand on the handlebars. It almost flipped me off the bike! I have no codes on my computer and otherwise, things seem normal. My bike idles fine around 1,000 RPM.

Any ideas from you geniuses? Thanks in advance.
 
Sounds nasty !

Some questions

Is this a one-off incident or does it happen frequently?
Does it happen every time when you reach 3000 ish ?
Any particular circumstances eg after riding at constant speed; when riding stop / start through town?
Does it happen when your hand is holding the throttle steady ?
Does it happen when the bike is warmed up - ie up to 3 bars on the gauge?
Do you have some slack / free play in the throttle movement?
Have you checked under the air box for rodent nest building / MISS (Mouse Induced Speed Surge)?
 
Is this a one-off incident or does it happen frequently?

Seems to be all the time although I need to make a longer journey to get the bike really hot to see if it persists when warmed up.
Does it happen every time when you reach 3000 ish ?

In first gear. It may be happening in higher gears, but it is less pronounced although higher gearing may be hiding it. I need to take it and check more closely.

Any particular circumstances eg after riding at constant speed; when riding stop / start through town?

No, just when accelerating.

Does it happen when your hand is holding the throttle steady ?

When I hold the throttle steady, I do feel a kind of 'loping', like the RPM doesn't want to stay at one point but will go up and down resulting in a sort of start/stop movement, but only at those lower RPMs. I know the Honda engines like to live in their powerband above 3,000 RPM

Does it happen when the bike is warmed up - ie up to 3 bars on the gauge?

I'm going to say yes, but will reevaluate and pay closer attention to the temp.

Do you have some slack / free play in the throttle movement?

Very little slack.

Have you checked under the air box for rodent nest building / MISS (Mouse Induced Speed Surge)?

Ha! I have not. Is that really a thing? That's easy enough to check.
 
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I'm clutching at straws on this, but until someone who knows what they are talking about comes along, I thought I'd ask you the questions that I would ask myself in such a situation.

Relevant thoughts which led to the questions.

The bike does surge if you start to ride it before it is properly warmed up. Probably due to the action of the wax unit making adjustments as the wax melts.

I was told by a respected Honda mechanic that the ECU adjusts according to the way it is ridden. No one on this forum has been able to confirm this - but the notion is that if it is ridden without a great deal of throttle input, then the first time you apply the throttle it can hesitate and it needs a couple of blips to make the ECU realise it has got someone demanding a bit more excitement in control of it. I've experienced this sort of behaviour a few times after long stints on dual carriageway and the engine faltering after slowing down and wanting to pick up speed - then whooshing in the power after a couple of blips of the throttle.

When my HT system (plugs and leads) started to fail, the symptoms were initially a slightly bumpy ride - nothing more than a feeling of riding along a tar and gravel road surface. Later a reluctance to accelerate until the revs picked up and then it would take off as if nothing was wrong, particularly noticeable when the gradient increases and it is expected to do more work without actually increasing the revs. Finally a reluctance to do anything unless the revs were held high.

Part of your description reminded me of the first two phases. My explanation was that the spark was not strong enough at normal riding speeds. When the revs were higher, the electrical output increases and the 'spark' becomes strong enough to jump the problems in the HT lead.

The Mice thing is a real issue, but not necessarily to do with what you describe. However, the throttle cable acts on a pulley wheel which is under the airbox at the front. One cable pulls the intake butterflies open. The other cable pulls them closed. A cable with no free play in it can cause issues - because all such mechanisms have their tight spot, and the inner cable tightness is affect by the position of the steering. Too much slack can make it difficult for the rider to respond to the engine's demands.

Any debris down there may (possibly) affect the movement of the pulley or of the mechanisms opening / closing the intake butterflies. If something like this is the cause, then this really would be clutching at straw.

But I wouldn't start diving in to these suggestions until others that may recognise the symptoms have had chance to contribute - but your answers may give them more useful information to work with.

One thought. Put some injector fuel cleaner in the tank. Fill up with some high octane, low ethanol fuel. Give the bike a treat and go for a long ride with plenty of variety, accelerating and decelerating. Keep the engine revs higher than normal - use a gear or two lower than normal - say about 4k-5k rpm.

At some point between 3/4 and an hour the engine will probably loosen up and feel to be spinning more freely. That sounds very vague, but you will feel it and you will know when a stupid grin comes onto your face each time you open the throttle.
I did it with mine (without thinking about it really) on Monday when I went for a short run which ended up as 244 miles. Mid afternoon I had an empty road with lots of twists and turns and climbing - and I got the stupid grin. Oh yes - I'd forgotten about that.


But bear in mind that you don't yet know what is happening in the engine - so depending on how you feel about the engine may determine whether you do this now or later. But if you do it now be wary - keep your hand ready on the clutch, for example.
Others may chime in talking about fuel pumps and 5 way tees, air filters and fuel filters - which may suggest doing a bit of work first.
 
I'm clutching at straws on this, but until someone who knows what they are talking about comes along, I thought I'd ask you the questions that I would ask myself in such a situation.

Relevant thoughts which led to the questions.

The bike does surge if you start to ride it before it is properly warmed up. Probably due to the action of the wax unit making adjustments as the wax melts.

I was told by a respected Honda mechanic that the ECU adjusts according to the way it is ridden. No one on this forum has been able to confirm this - but the notion is that if it is ridden without a great deal of throttle input, then the first time you apply the throttle it can hesitate and it needs a couple of blips to make the ECU realise it has got someone demanding a bit more excitement in control of it. I've experienced this sort of behaviour a few times after long stints on dual carriageway and the engine faltering after slowing down and wanting to pick up speed - then whooshing in the power after a couple of blips of the throttle.

When my HT system (plugs and leads) started to fail, the symptoms were initially a slightly bumpy ride - nothing more than a feeling of riding along a tar and gravel road surface. Later a reluctance to accelerate until the revs picked up and then it would take off as if nothing was wrong, particularly noticeable when the gradient increases and it is expected to do more work without actually increasing the revs. Finally a reluctance to do anything unless the revs were held high.

Part of your description reminded me of the first two phases. My explanation was that the spark was not strong enough at normal riding speeds. When the revs were higher, the electrical output increases and the 'spark' becomes strong enough to jump the problems in the HT lead.

The Mice thing is a real issue, but not necessarily to do with what you describe. However, the throttle cable acts on a pulley wheel which is under the airbox at the front. One cable pulls the intake butterflies open. The other cable pulls them closed. A cable with no free play in it can cause issues - because all such mechanisms have their tight spot, and the inner cable tightness is affect by the position of the steering. Too much slack can make it difficult for the rider to respond to the engine's demands.

Any debris down there may (possibly) affect the movement of the pulley or of the mechanisms opening / closing the intake butterflies. If something like this is the cause, then this really would be clutching at straw.

But I wouldn't start diving in to these suggestions until others that may recognise the symptoms have had chance to contribute - but your answers may give them more useful information to work with.

One thought. Put some injector fuel cleaner in the tank. Fill up with some high octane, low ethanol fuel. Give the bike a treat and go for a long ride with plenty of variety, accelerating and decelerating. Keep the engine revs higher than normal - use a gear or two lower than normal - say about 4k-5k rpm.

At some point between 3/4 and an hour the engine will probably loosen up and feel to be spinning more freely. That sounds very vague, but you will feel it and you will know when a stupid grin comes onto your face each time you open the throttle.
I did it with mine (without thinking about it really) on Monday when I went for a short run which ended up as 244 miles. Mid afternoon I had an empty road with lots of twists and turns and climbing - and I got the stupid grin. Oh yes - I'd forgotten about that.


But bear in mind that you don't yet know what is happening in the engine - so depending on how you feel about the engine may determine whether you do this now or later. But if you do it now be wary - keep your hand ready on the clutch, for example.
Others may chime in talking about fuel pumps and 5 way tees, air filters and fuel filters - which may suggest doing a bit of work first.
The weekend approaches. I think I'll do that Saturday morning. I also wanted to take a video of the behavior, but today was rainy in my neck of the woods. Thank you for your input.
 
Well, I ran it for about 70 miles this morning. Beautiful ride. Full tank of Premium and about 1/3 of a bottle of Injector Cleaner. No improvement that I an discern. I'll keep probing. Here's another important fact - the problem only seems to present itself when the engine is under load. If I rev it while in neutral, everything seems okay. If I put the engine under load at low RPM, it becomes sluggish and threatens to stall down around 1500 RPM.
 
That sounds familiar. See if this report shows the symptoms that you have.

ST1300 Poor Running - HT Leads & Plugs - Solved | ST1300 Tech | ST-Owners.com

I don't think that I had the surging that you describe. Mine would falter but then when the revs picked up it would take off - does that match your 'surging' ? Before I fixed it, I had to keep the revs quite high to prevent the engine from dying.
 
Update: Well, 2 tanks of gas with some over the counter fuel system cleaner seems to have resolved this issue. Maybe an injector was dirty or some other fuel system component was screwed up? I used Lucas Deep Clean Fuel System Cleaner adding about 1/3 of a bottle to a full tank. Can't argue with success I guess.
 
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