Air in SMC Query

Upt' North said:
It would have been the sort of thing copper grease would have gone on years ago, but that's gone out of fashion, have you got Honda M77 or Moly grease handy the sort of thing you put on the back of the pads?
Upt'North.
And yes, just a light coating.
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Thanks for that. Just to be clear, because I am putting together a to do list, which I have to translate into Spanish, we are talking about the hanger pins, referred to in the shop manual as brake pad pins? Would silicon/rubber grease be unsuitable?
 
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Al Gully said:
Your pins look in really rough shape, I'd go ahead and buy 3 new pins (one for the rear and 2 for the front) along with the new o-rings and rubber caps that I didn't see in your pictures you posted.
New pins look semi chromed, then apply a smear of grease of your choice to them.
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Many thanks Al.
 
Thanks John. I see what you mean about the bent slider pin. If it turns out to be bent, will the whole caliper have to be replaced, or is the pin itself replaceable?
 
Very clear John thanks for going to all that trouble. What other damage should I be looking for when it comes off?
 
Besides rust? :rofl1:
These are the parts you may need to replace:
Bracket sub Assy- 43290-MCS-G01
Pin Bolt - 45131-MZ2-006
Spring Pad - 43108-MAJ-G41
Boot B - 45133-MA3-006
Boot Pin Bush - Nissin - 45132-166-016

Double check all your part numbers for your model year and location.

Normally, I find that the steel pins don't bend, they damage the aluminum bracket threads which make them tilt (steel pin-Aluminum bracket) and its the force of the hydraulic brake system against the weight of the bike that causes the damage.
The bracket is the most expensive part, perhaps you can find a used one at a salvage yard or on ebay?
 
You have been a great help. I feel this type of work is too advanced for my skills. I am putting together an action plan, using all the information you, Larry and others have given me, and translating into Spanish. As you can imagine, this in itself is a challenge! I am hoping to find a competent mechanic soon and will take it step by step from there. I may well take up your offer of a chat on the phone during all this. I will call you of course. I may PM you at some stage for your number. In the meantime, many thanks and I will post my progress.
 
Thanks for this. I will look into it. Autoferro are the Honda dealers and I have not had good reports. A common problem over here, and not just motorcycle mechanics, is that it seems acceptable for people to interrupt workers, whilst they are working or dealing with a customer, causing distraction and often confusion. I see it often in banks, hospitals, post offices and many businesses. Customer service is virtually non existent, especially in the public sector. Behaviour which we would deem to be rude is generally accepted. A few years ago I was having an oil change done on my car while I waited. I was outside the workshop watching from a distance. The car was almost finished and the fitter was approached by someone and stood talking to him for 15 minutes. I was eventually told the vehicle was ready. A few days later I opened the bonnet and found that the radiator cap was missing. I always check the vehicle over thoroughly now before leaving. Sad to say there is a lot of sloppy workmanship around. I could quote many more examples but I won't bore you!
 
I have been sifting my way through the brake archives of this forum and notice that there was some discussion about whether the ant squeal plate that comes with the OEM pads needs to be fitted. Apparently, when the ST1300 was first introduced in 2002 (UK), there was no ant squeal plate, it was only introduced in later years. There was a school of thought that the plate MAY contribute to drag. Obviously my rear brake has not currently got an anti squeal plate, but when I order new pads, one will come with the pad set. I am loathe to fit the plate until my drag issue has been resolved, as it would be adding yet another variable. What do you think I should do guys? I ask because, in drawing up my plan and instructions for the mechanic, I will need to make a decision on this. Thanks in advance.

Nick
 
Nick,
Glad to see you are proceeding with the prep for repairs, I can't say about the 13 specifically but I can never remember not fitting the anti squeal shims on any pads, fitted right, which any mechanic (?) should be capable of they will do what it says on the tin. I'm sure Heathy or Larry will chime in but I'd fit the anti-squealers personally.
My 11 has them in place, but as we know the 13 is a different animal.
Hope it helps.
Upt'North.
 
Since the bike was built and designed to use OEM pads that have the shims on them, I would not leave them off.
These are NOT your problem, most likely, as pointed out, RUST, and a suspected BENT guide pin, would be the most obvious problems your dealing with.
There would be no way your brakes would be working correctly in the condition that are are currently in.
I don't think any mechanic will be able to sort your bikes issues out without replacing all the rusted stuff.
Don't mean to sound rude, but parts will not move or work smoothly in the state they are currently in.
Get some EvapoRust or similar rust removal soak, and start cleaning before you keep throwing time and money at this project, if not, your just going to keep frustrating yourself more :nuts1:
 
Igofar said:
Since the bike was built and designed to use OEM pads that have the shims on them, I would not leave them off.
These are NOT your problem, most likely, as pointed out, RUST, and a suspected BENT guide pin, would be the most obvious problems your dealing with.
There would be no way your brakes would be working correctly in the condition that are are currently in.
I don't think any mechanic will be able to sort your bikes issues out without replacing all the rusted stuff.
Don't mean to sound rude, but parts will not move or work smoothly in the state they are currently in.
Get some EvapoRust or similar rust removal soak, and start cleaning before you keep throwing time and money at this project, if not, your just going to keep frustrating yourself more :nuts1:
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Point taken Larry. They will be installed.
 
I didn't mean to sound so rude, I just was trying to save you some time and frustration.
The brake system is pretty complicated when working correctly, however, when so many unknowns like bent stuff and rust added into the mix, I would not know where to start trying to solve the issues without first removing some of the obvious stuff.
Hang in there, you will get this resolved.
 
Igofar said:
I didn't mean to sound so rude, I just was trying to save you some time and frustration.
The brake system is pretty complicated when working correctly, however, when so many unknowns like bent stuff and rust added into the mix, I would not know where to start trying to solve the issues without first removing some of the obvious stuff.
Hang in there, you will get this resolved.
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No offence taken Larry. I am just trying to learn as much as I can, so that when things are stripped down I know what is what and what goes where etc. I would love to take this on myself, but don' feel that I have the level of competency needed. Therefore I need the knowledge to be able to instruct watch and check any work done by a mechanic.

You mentioned earlier about the possibility of the bracket and/or pin being bent/damaged. Do you have any tips on how to check if the bracket is damaged, as you say, the steel pin may not have bent itself, but caused damage to the bracket. Presumably, when the bracket is off and the pin still attached, I would be able to see if things were out of square?
 
Still trying to source a mechanic. In the meantime I would appreciate comments on the below photos. The first one is a lift from John Heaths Pitfalls post, showing the rear pads correctly installed and specifically the clip. The second two are from my bike, showing the clip. There appears to me to be some difference, maybe it is the angle of the photos, but is the tab on my photos located properly in the padbr.pngIMG_20180909_112209247_HDR.jpgIMG_20180909_112301837.jpg?
I realise the heat shield is missing, but looking at the maintenance records I have, I suspect that they are Nissin OEM pads.
 
Thanks John. That's good to know. It gives me a benchmark to show the photo to the mechanic (eventually!). I know what you mean about the other side. I have tried to get a view, using a torch, as you suggest in your article, but no go. I am going to try and move the silencer and brake house and will report back.
 
Update. Sorry for the long gap, but I have been away for a while. Pleased to say that I have found a mechanic at last, and the problem seems to have been resolved. This took place at the end of September, but I wanted to wait until I was confident that the matter really was dealt with before I reported back.

The parts shown below have been replaced with OEM, fitted and lubed correctly. Rear brakes etc cleaned up and system bled again, in accordance with the workshop manual. The fitted pads were original Nissin, but without the heat and anti rattle plates fitted.

On close examination of the removed parts, I cannot detect any bending or distortion, however, the rubbers were shot.

On riding I now get no binding and with the bike on the centre stand I get 2 full turns of the rear wheel. The SMC functions correctly and the front wheel spins freely. Brakes are sharp, without overheating. Tested using the procedure suggested by jfheath.

Once again, many thanks to all contributors for your valuable assistance.

Nick

Brake Parts.jpg
 
Yes John, all year round here, although the last couple of days we have had some heavy rain, I generally get out for a good ride (100k plus) three or four times a week year round. Very lucky to be able to do so.
 
Well done Nick, hope you sorted for some time now.
The Spanish weather should help. I wouldn't have thought Salt and grit is a worry.
Enjoy your riding.
Upt'North.
 
Of course I could be wrong, going by the state of the van in this photo, although the picture was taken in the pyrenees a couple of years ago, fresh snow is just visible on the tops, it was late September I think.
Upt'North.
DSC01678.JPG
 
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