"all bikes lead to a Goldwing"

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NC750 can do it all and 98% of it really well. I think it is a pleasant bike and if you think about it that is all any of us are really after. I believe there will be another Moto Guzzi at some point just because I like them. At the moment I have in addition to a sore shoulder a lack of enthusiasm.
 
Sadlsor said:
I'm kinda curious about all these comments regarding "handling at low speed."
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I suspect a lot of it is down to the rider. I have spent 40 years riding in the Alps working my way around thousands of switchbacks, many were narrow and tight, and I've never fallen over (so far) - and yet I'm not very good at doing U-turns in parking lots. I have practiced parking lot U-turns on my 2018 Goldwing (like I did on my ST1300, ST1100, Ducati, Guzzis, etc.) and I am no better and no worse on the GW than I was on any of the other bikes, which is not very tight.

On the other hand, I do see a lot more of the 2018 - 2026 GWs in the Alps than I ever saw with the previous generations. I was particularly awe struck about 3 weeks ago when I was standing in the parking area at a tollbooth for the Timmelsjoch (a private Austria/Italy pass road). Two riders on late model GW Tours (judging by the colors maybe 2024s) approached the toll booth, stopped about 15 feet before the booth and decided for whatever reason to turn around and not go through. They both flicked their GWs over to the right like 250cc Enduros and effortlessly U-turned in less than the width of 2 parking spaces in a couple of seconds - I wish I had a video of it. Clearly the rider has a LOT to do with how the bikes handle.

My wife and I were 2-up on a 2026 rental R1300RT - in my personal opinion the best iteration of the RT yet, faster, better handing and loaded with technology. And yet, I would not trade it for my 2018 GW Tour with the Traxxion suspension and BT Moto tune. The GW has a noticeably lower center, handles well for US roads, now has the power and throttle response it should have had from the factory and is more comfortable than the RT. It's also the only bike that I have ever owned or ridden where a driver's backrest for lower back support makes sense for long trips. I'm 75 y/o and it still works for me. It's a keeper for the foreseeable future.
 
Moto-Charlie said:
I suspect a lot of it is down to the rider. I have spent 40 years riding in the Alps working my way around thousands of switchbacks, many were narrow and tight, and I've never fallen over (so far) - and yet I'm not very good at doing U-turns in parking lots. I have practiced parking lot U-turns on my 2018 Goldwing (like I did on my ST1300, ST1100, Ducati, Guzzis, etc.) and I am no better and no worse on the GW than I was on any of the other bikes, which is not very tight.

On the other hand, I do see a lot more of the 2018 - 2026 GWs in the Alps than I ever saw with the previous generations. I was particularly awe struck about 3 weeks ago when I was standing in the parking area at a tollbooth for the Timmelsjoch (a private Austria/Italy pass road). Two riders on late model GW Tours (judging by the colors maybe 2024s) approached the toll booth, stopped about 15 feet before the booth and decided for whatever reason to turn around and not go through. They both flicked their GWs over to the right like 250cc Enduros and effortlessly U-turned in less than the width of 2 parking spaces in a couple of seconds - I wish I had a video of it. Clearly the rider has a LOT to do with how the bikes handle.

My wife and I were 2-up on a 2026 rental R1300RT - in my personal opinion the best iteration of the RT yet, faster, better handing and loaded with technology. And yet, I would not trade it for my 2018 GW Tour with the Traxxion suspension and BT Moto tune. The GW has a noticeably lower center, handles well for US roads, now has the power and throttle response it should have had from the factory and is more comfortable than the RT. It's also the only bike that I have ever owned or ridden where a driver's backrest for lower back support makes sense for long trips. I'm 75 y/o and it still works for me. It's a keeper for the foreseeable future.
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If you are touring the Alps, two up on an RT at 75, my hat is off to you sir!
 
Moto-Charlie said:
I suspect a lot of it is down to the rider.
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That's certainly likely. It depends on the nature of any given comment though. Describing a bike's low speed handling can be "handles well at low speed" or "can be handled at low speed". A rider with superior low speed skills can make short work of most any turning situation. That doesn't mean that all bikes handle the same. A good rider will be able to know what bikes he/she are familiar with will handle better than others. The ability to make any bike to what you want doesn't make it a good handling bike. But it makes for a good flex.
 
ST Gui said:
A good rider will be able to know what bikes he/she are familiar with will handle better than others. The ability to make any bike to what you want doesn't make it a good handling bike. But it makes for a good flex.
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And it demonstrates a good rider.
You kinda said that, but it bears repeating... it's always the rider, not the bike.
 
I went on a group ride years ago that was organized by the owner of the local Honda dealer. Besides being a very experienced rider he was also a trials rider, a dirt track racer, and a road racer. He had a Goldwing as his demonstrator. This was years ago during the time when they were huge land yachts and he still blew everyone away, even the guys on full sports bikes.

Doesn't matter how good the bike is, the rider makes the difference. A better bike makes a good rider better. A better bike puts a bad rider in danger.
 
Bulitt said:
If you are touring the Alps, two up on an RT at 75, my hat is off to you sir!
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Thank you for the kind words.

For me the challenge is that the RT is quite top heavy 2-up with a full tank of case and the side cases and top case fully loaded. I have to really focus on slow speed maneuvers when slowing down or coming to a stop to park, in a gas station, etc. - not so bad solo. The top heaviness isn't helped by the fact that the 1300 RT (and GS) have shorter kickstands than the prior 1200/1250 bikes, which makes getting them up off the side stand a real challenge if you don't park in a spot with a slight uphill tilt. I've started doing light strength training with the hope of extending my 2-up riding days. The Goldwing, while noticeably heavier, has the weight down low, so tipping over inadvertently is not as scary a possibility - but it too requires slow speed/stopping focus and attention similar to the RT.
 
ST Gui said:
That's certainly likely. It depends on the nature of any given comment though. Describing a bike's low speed handling can be "handles well at low speed" or "can be handled at low speed". A rider with superior low speed skills can make short work of most any turning situation. That doesn't mean that all bikes handle the same. A good rider will be able to know what bikes he/she are familiar with will handle better than others. The ability to make any bike to what you want doesn't make it a good handling bike. But it makes for a good flex.
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I was able to handle a Harley Davidson FLHTPi Police Special pretty well in tight places at low speeds, and it is not a bike known for its precise handling. But, lots of hours in the saddle (and dumping someone else's bike when you mess up) will allow you to become skilled with almost any bike.
 
Deputy25 said:
I was able to handle a Harley Davidson FLHTPi Police Special pretty well in tight places at low speeds, and it is not a bike known for its precise handling.
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I know a riding motor Sgt. who before retiring was in charge of the county's motor unit and a certified motor instructor who could do the same thing both with his duty H-D and his former 2005 GW (not a police motor). He's ridden my ST and doubtless can handle it even better.

Just to be clear I'm didn't say there isn't a rider who can't make any bike work or that superior riding skills aren't important. But some bikes are easier to toss around more predictably than others. Some bikes don't require the same high degree of experience and rider skills as others. That's all I'm saying.
 
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