Another high speed wooble accident

Killtimer said:
Would you believe me Coop? Obviously you don't believe Dave or any of the others who have experienced it first hand on both sides of the ocean? How about the majority of European MC publications who've reviewed the bike? No?........... How's the sand taste?
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Okay, you are a credible witness!! Spit, spit!! bad sand, tastes like someone farted in it recently. Wasn't there something about swingarm bushings in the early UK police bikes? I've had two 2005's and haven't experienced anything near a speed wobble. Spit, spit.......that stuff really gets between me teeth.
 
First I heard of it was in '02 in a Bike magazine report. I've had it happen multiple times on two different ST13s, my original '03 and my current 05. I personally know one individual that wrecked because of it. I know of more than a few who've experienced it. It exists, maybe not on every bike and maybe (as the last Bike mag sidebar noted) not even to every rider on a suspect bike. The issue, like the discussion, is not going to go away. And like Dave, over the 80k miles I've put on the two bikes, everything has been tried. The only common variables are a top box, single rider and speed...... Drop any of the three and it's not an issue.
 
Killtimer said:
First I heard of it was in '02 in a Bike magazine report. I've had it happen multiple times on two different ST13s, my original '03 and my current 05. I personally know one individual that wrecked because of it. I know of more than a few who've experienced it. It exists, maybe not on every bike and maybe (as the last Bike mag sidebar noted) not even to every rider on a suspect bike. The issue, like the discussion, is not going to go away. And like Dave, over the 80k miles I've put on the two bikes, everything has been tried. The only common variables are a top box, single rider and speed...... Drop any of the three and it's not an issue.
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I've been running Michelin and Avon tires after the first set of Dunlops, Hondaline topbox and three different windshields, have been told by serveral LEO's that I ride a little too fast and haven't had a problem with a wobble. Maybe, it's because I'm a lard a$$.
 
I really don't care what it is anymore. I've come to the conclusion that it's beyond my ability to diagnose. I know the warning signs and just back off. The only reason I keep jumping into this shark pool of a discussion is that someone who mistakenly and positively believes it is a non existent problem, a non issue, could be taken completely by surprise and not react in time or correctly.
 
My ST1300 is solid as a rock at high speeds going straight. I have noticed that if I take long swipping curves at high speed, say 120 or above, the bike wants to shake as soon as you get it over.
I can see why some people may have a problem and fail to handle this bike at that speed.
I think it is the design of the bike, while this design is awesome for everyday riding, single or 2 up, it is very dangerous for any kind of none experienced rider or even experience riders.
Before people start flaming me, let me say that I have an 08 busa and regularly ride both bikes to the edge.
The ST is not designed for super high speed riding, it is designed for comfortable long haul trips and is stable as hell doing any type of normal riding.

You can't take a park avenue and make a race car out of it. Why should you expect to take a Sport Tourer and make a Busa out of it.

SC has started to replace it's BMW's with ST's. I have talked with an officer and he says the ST is a lot more comfortable than the BMW. But he also realized that adding equipment to the ST will affect its perfomance, I.E the lights and horn systems on both sides of the engine guards. When you start messing with the air flow of a bike, you can get some wierd affects at high speed.
 
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I just think it s pretty sad that certain people cant accept the fact that there is a big design flaw with ST. I love this bike but obviously the wobble does exists and Honda refuses to do anything about it. But as long as these people keep making excuses and refuse to even consider that there is a problem makes things worse. I have experienced it and ive been riding for over 20 years. Just because someone writes something bad about the ST you shouldnt attack him because it only shows you ignorance. That is the reason im writing this post. Besides There is too many people including myself that have experienced this situation. There is also scientific data . so to all those people that attacked Burger you owe him an apology.. Thanx for your time and my opnion
 
Before buying I researched this on the web and the answer to the wobble was the fork pinch bolts not being properly adjusted. Folks noted improvement after re-torqueing to factory spec
 
How can it be a design flaw when only some of the bikes exhibit this behavior?
My 04 is more stable in high speed sweepers (+120mph) than my previous bike, an Interceptor, which was quite good in its own right. I have noticed after the tires get past ~ 1/2 their life span they are not as predictable (stable) as when fresh.
 
vicramdiesel said:
Just because someone writes something bad about the ST you shouldnt attack him because it only shows you ignorance. n
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I agree with you there, this is a forum isn't it. I have the 04 and I think there is a wobble problem. I won't go on about it either because of the former posts and the discontent it seems to create. I wish there was more concrete evidence as to why some experience it and others don't.
 
hmmmm... note that he mentions that the bike is fully loaded with gear, (trunk, sidebags, ect.) and I'd love to know what little brains it took to do probably over 90 mph with a full load. OHHH YEA, let's blame the bike. DAAAAA! I've gone bike/camping with my '06 fully loaded and never exceeded 85mph and the bike was as solid as a rock...! Now.. if you FEEL like going the 135-150 the bike is capable of... you have to do it with at least HALF a brain. *** ride safe and enjoy :06biker:
 
I weigh 160. I ride in multiple positions- normal crouch, set way back, feet dangling, feet on the crash frame, laying on the tank bag, feet on the rear pegs.... 18k on the bike, no wobble. I've had 95 pounds of gear stuffed onto the bike (20in each bag, 30 in a backpack, 15 in a tank bag, ten in the pockets), and have been high speed with it. No wobble. I have set the cruise and bump steered the bars at 90 mph so fast that I was weaving each highway stripe. While I could feel a resonant pattern, I wouldn't call it a wobble. If I had continued, I may have lost control, but any bike will do that if you push it into its own resonant frequency ( don't try this unless you really know what you are doing). I'm not denying that some have experienced a wobble. I am simply saying that I have pushed this bike to its limit in more ways than I am describing here, and have not.

Mike
 
I think if there was a real design flaw we'd be seeing a lot more of us going down. I just finished a 20,000 km/12,500 mile trip from Newfoundland to California and back.. some of it two up and mostly over loaded with a Give 52 trunk, 17 litre tank bag. Like most of us, I do not stay at the posted speed, but I have no need to go faster than 100mph occasionaly and mostly cruise at 80-90 mph. I do get a weave in dirty air behind trucks... hey, I've got a footprint of what, 4" x 3" wide on the pavement under each tire... I'm going to get blown around... drop back and or pass (pass, pass, pass). I occasionally got a shimmy resonating from broken pavement... metal bridges.... but I have never felt a wobble start... not to say it can't... but I think there are so many factors in play.
On my old BMW 75/5.... I could be rock solid at 80 mph... put on the trottle lock and drink my coffee... the days of open faced helmets. I could give the end of the handle bars a smack and not distrub the ride... but, I also had a couple of close calls with medium speed... 60-65mph wobbles... harmonics. load, tire wear, pressure, wheel bearing play, side winds, excessive speeds... so much comes into consideration. I just really think a lot more of us would have already have been dumped by this bike if there was a real design flaw.
Then again, it could be the casual worker brought in from 2pm to 5pm every 2nd Tuesday who messes up assembly on 1 bike every 2nd week?
 
Jim C-G said:
I think if there was a real design flaw we'd be seeing a lot more of us going down. I just finished a 20,000 km/12,500 mile trip from Newfoundland to California and back.. some of it two up and mostly over loaded with a Give 52 trunk, 17 litre tank bag. Like most of us, I do not stay at the posted speed, but I have no need to go faster than 100mph occasionaly and mostly cruise at 80-90 mph. I do get a weave in dirty air behind trucks... hey, I've got a footprint of what, 4" x 3" wide on the pavement under each tire... I'm going to get blown around... drop back and or pass (pass, pass, pass). I occasionally got a shimmy resonating from broken pavement... metal bridges.... but I have never felt a wobble start... not to say it can't... but I think there are so many factors in play.
On my old BMW 75/5.... I could be rock solid at 80 mph... put on the trottle lock and drink my coffee... the days of open faced helmets. I could give the end of the handle bars a smack and not distrub the ride... but, I also had a couple of close calls with medium speed... 60-65mph wobbles... harmonics. load, tire wear, pressure, wheel bearing play, side winds, excessive speeds... so much comes into consideration. I just really think a lot more of us would have already have been dumped by this bike if there was a real design flaw.
Then again, it could be the casual worker brought in from 2pm to 5pm every 2nd Tuesday who messes up assembly on 1 bike every 2nd week?
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got to agree .....it's that darned casual worker!!!:p::D
 
i just got finished riding back east to see the parents. i feel that my own bags, saddle bags, and large w.p. kayak bag on the passenger seat, had the bike out of balance. i never sensed a wobble comming on, and hope to never experence it. while on my trip it occured to me, that i've NEVER read about anyone takeing the time to measure the center of gravity point on a motorcycle. i suspect as that point moves farther from the front wheel, the likelyhood of such an accident grows. and probably a certainty once it gets close to the rear wheel. of course there's other dynamics at play here, like the forces that wind exerts on the loaded bike, road surface, the list probably goes on forever. still it'd be intersting to see just what the loading is on an unloaded ST, verses a fully loaded one.
 
Killtimer said:
...The only common variables are a top box, single rider and speed...... Drop any of the three and it's not an issue.
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When I got my top box back in '05 ("Genuine Honda Part" from David Silver Spares) the instructions CLEARLY stated not to ride the bike over 85 with the top box on...
Of course, I've been over that speed on a few occasions :D, and even heavily loaded, without incident, but I also accept that when exceeding the manufacturers recommendations, I'm on my own... YMMV

Bob
 
Re: Another high speed wobble accident

I got on the freeway yesterday and it looked clear. I was going to top out my bike but a few miles down the road I got into traffic and had to let off the throttle. Right before I let off the throttle I was at 135 mph according to the speedometer so I was probably going about 125 mph. Pretty smooth! I have got into wobble when passing semi trucks in windy conditions though.
 
i don't know what you guys are running into (conditions) that are causing this , nor the P editions in europe ... I haven't found any inherent instability problems on my ride ... the only time I feel I'm 'wobbling' is when there is crosswind and I put that down to cross wind pushing me around, I found riding faster makes it go away ...
 
I have riden mine quickly since I bought it new ......it would get a little one as I pasted semi's at plus 80 mph speeds................. my fix for this which has worked for most that have tried it is iron grip the side away from the truck while a very loose grip must be used on truck side grip..........


The day I figured this out I went looking for semi's to pass.....I think the total number that day was over thirty something.................


......as a added note I have to say that this problem almost disapired completely after replacing the stock tires and adding a nice set of 18.6 oz stainless bar ends..............(but) when riding quickly I still do the bar trick automaticly when passing the big stuff.(just incase)..................
 
Hey all,

I am a newbie to this forum and have less than 5000 km (3000 miles) on my 07 ST1300.

I ride at 200km + (125mph +) almost every ride with a stock ST1300.

I have ridden over 50,000 km on motorcyles in the last 4 years.

My last ride was a Honda 2002 VFR (V4s rock) no issue at all.

On the ST I do encounter a consistent slow "wobble" at just about 180 km, every time. this is repeatable and once I slow down by 10km or speed up by 10km the bike is rock solid right up to 250 km indicated.

My pressures are good and my hard bags have well under the weight limit (9kgs) in each.

Screen position seems irrelevant.

I am not scared by this nor is it a violent experience.

Question: At almost the twice the legal limit does the manufacturer have any liability?

I would be willing to contact Honda to evaluate my bike to help in this discussion.
 
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