willmyers
i have an 04 st not sure what to do but very unstable at 85 to 90 miles an hour tried stiffing the shocks ,new tires, no joy wind from the front seems to make it a lot worse
Pm1apj
Does anyone know what "fix" Honda has applied to the European version of the STs that corrected the weave/wobble/fandango problem? Or if a successful fix was ever actually even found by the company? I thought I had read somewhere that they had done "something" to correct the problem but that it was only going to be implemented on the euro/law enforcement versions ??
Pm1apj
Here is what I saw on sport-touring.net -
"The only thing that kinda erks me is the fact that Honda came out with a fix for the high speed wobble (swingarm yaws in mount under load) and applied it to bikes in Europe and to all Police models but us regular old saps here in North America, where riding 120+ mph is illegal have to ride bikes without the "fix".
"Rumor has it that you can buy the euro/police swing arm pivot reinforcement parts and upgrade your own bike if you really feel it is necessary. I?d suggest upgrading the shock and front fork before you do that as it will probably cure the issue and yield many other benefits as well."
Has anyone in the US tried this yet?
"The only thing that kinda erks me is the fact that Honda came out with a fix for the high speed wobble (swingarm yaws in mount under load) and applied it to bikes in Europe and to all Police models but us regular old saps here in North America, where riding 120+ mph is illegal have to ride bikes without the "fix".
"Rumor has it that you can buy the euro/police swing arm pivot reinforcement parts and upgrade your own bike if you really feel it is necessary. I?d suggest upgrading the shock and front fork before you do that as it will probably cure the issue and yield many other benefits as well."
Has anyone in the US tried this yet?
Gosh, read it on the internet so it must be true.
Well, many of the 13,800,000 miles logged by riders on this site in 2008 were ridden on ST1300's across the globe and there wasn't much wobblin' going on - this is so much dead horse meat.
The 1300 Pan was released in Europe as a 2002 a full model year before the release in the USA as a 2003 model. There was a recall of first year bikes in Europe that addressed a swing arm mod and new torque specs for the engine mount bolts. Those changes were made to the basic motorcycle before it was released in the USA so there is no retrofit kit for US bikes. It was incorporated into production 2003 and later bikes for all markets.
Rob Hephner
Mobile Pest Control
Tell ya what, if I find a 2002 ST1300 in the US I'll give it a try...
Seriously, how many times does the same thing need to be said?
dmulk
Dan Mulkiewicz
Tell ya what, if I find a 2002 ST1300 in the US I'll give it a try...
Seriously, how many times does the same thing need to be said?
I wonder if it could be the type of oil that is being used .....
<D>
Gene
That's MR CUPCAKE to you!
Can't some long threads just go away forever ?
stellarpod
It's hungry in here...
Apparently not, as long as you, me and others continue to post to them.
stellarpod
stellarpod
Highrider
Part time mechanic
This thread and the physics thread need to go away ... FOREVER !!!
SteveST1300
Vendor
I just upgraded the forkk springs and rear shock and the bike fells soooo much better. I used to experience the bad air behind pick ups and semis that is gone now unless you grip the bars tight then it is there but if you stay relaxed its rock solid.
RDavidson1744
Probably shouldn't admit this but I have maintained grossly illegal speeds for long periods of time in Montana and Wyoming with no wobble what so ever, I did however learn my lesson when I got a ticket from the Wyoming HyPo for 97 in a 70
kjhkent
Hi
I would class myself as a fair rider. I spent 13 years riding motorbikes in and around London as a Police Traffic officer, in all sorts of conditions and at speeds, a tadge over the speed limits on calls, etc. During my service (retired in 2005) I rode both BMW K75 and Honda ST1100 operationally. I rode some later BMWs but swore that I would retire when we stopped riding Hondas and timed it about right when most went out of service.
I have owned a new ST1300 for about 8 months and have to say it is a different beast to the ST1100. However I have never ever experienced the wobble that others give accounts of. I have always put it down to being a fairly large framed individual and the bike really couldnt do anything than stay stable on the road. I also ensured that I never overloaded the panniers. I have heard older riders tell of tank slappers on certain bikes. I never dealt with any collisions where high speed wobble was a factor, either public or Police involved.
I have rejoined (needed money for new bike) and occasionally ride BMW R1200on duty and again no sign of any instability other than those caused by my own error.
Its also interersting to note that the London Ambulance service has just bought 12 new ST1300 (Hendon trained riders I think) so what ever the cause of the problem, they dont seem to identify it as an issue, on the latest bike.
I suspect that it has something to do with the setup of the particular bike rather that a problem with the bike overall.
Just a personal opinion.
I would class myself as a fair rider. I spent 13 years riding motorbikes in and around London as a Police Traffic officer, in all sorts of conditions and at speeds, a tadge over the speed limits on calls, etc. During my service (retired in 2005) I rode both BMW K75 and Honda ST1100 operationally. I rode some later BMWs but swore that I would retire when we stopped riding Hondas and timed it about right when most went out of service.
I have owned a new ST1300 for about 8 months and have to say it is a different beast to the ST1100. However I have never ever experienced the wobble that others give accounts of. I have always put it down to being a fairly large framed individual and the bike really couldnt do anything than stay stable on the road. I also ensured that I never overloaded the panniers. I have heard older riders tell of tank slappers on certain bikes. I never dealt with any collisions where high speed wobble was a factor, either public or Police involved.
I have rejoined (needed money for new bike) and occasionally ride BMW R1200on duty and again no sign of any instability other than those caused by my own error.
Its also interersting to note that the London Ambulance service has just bought 12 new ST1300 (Hendon trained riders I think) so what ever the cause of the problem, they dont seem to identify it as an issue, on the latest bike.
I suspect that it has something to do with the setup of the particular bike rather that a problem with the bike overall.
Just a personal opinion.
vranswer
This is of more interest to me than the infamous 'wobble' over 80 mph, as for all practical purposes I remain below that mark (I may be slow, but I sure am tall). Having just 1200 miles on my new '07, I came up behind a large semi at speed (@70 speedo) and felt this incredibly nimble and sure-footed machine really begin to lose some composure (not me, of course).
I have experienced 'wind wake' on everything from a V60 Nighthawk, to a couple of Valkeries, and an 1800R VTX, but never got punked around like I did on that day. Felt very mushy and wobbly, so much so that I backed off in some dismay. What spring/shock upgrade eliminates this?
Semi's, motorhomes and the like kick up a fair amount of turbulents/dirty air. I find if I keep my windscreen at the lowest position and keep a few car lengths back until I can get by it lessens the buffeting. I never ride solo with the Hondaline topbox on. When it is on, it's my wife's back rest and catch-all for quick to get at stuff like rain gear, heated vests, etc. My reasoning is there's a steady, uninterrupted flow of air from the windscreen through to the back of the trunk. Trust me, the two of us are far from aerodynamic nor do I claim to be an engineer but as a solo rider, what if the swirling air closes in behind me and causes lift on the topbox? Wouldn't that transfer weight to the front wheel and cause control issues,wobbles or tank-slappers? I'm just throwing it out there. Ride Safe. Marty
cworley5150
V-4 Convert
M&M- Love the avatar. Looks like some tasty micro brew stuff.
I think the top box being on the bike may be a contributing factor to the dreaded wobble. However it makes more sense to me that the air coming over and around the rider would hit the top box and cause the front end to lift rather than be forced down. Headshake usually starts due to the front tire losing contact and traction. Maybe you are saying the same thing and I misread what you posted.
Also, I have never had any form of the wobble and have hit speeds well into the triple digits. My bike doesn't pull to the right or the bars shake when hands off either as some report. I have a top box, but have yet to ride with it on the bike. I always ride with the bags on and usually have a fair bit of junk in them. I have a trip planned this month and will be loaded down including the top box, bags and tank bag. We'll see if there seems to be any wobble.
I think the top box being on the bike may be a contributing factor to the dreaded wobble. However it makes more sense to me that the air coming over and around the rider would hit the top box and cause the front end to lift rather than be forced down. Headshake usually starts due to the front tire losing contact and traction. Maybe you are saying the same thing and I misread what you posted.
Also, I have never had any form of the wobble and have hit speeds well into the triple digits. My bike doesn't pull to the right or the bars shake when hands off either as some report. I have a top box, but have yet to ride with it on the bike. I always ride with the bags on and usually have a fair bit of junk in them. I have a trip planned this month and will be loaded down including the top box, bags and tank bag. We'll see if there seems to be any wobble.
Let me apologise if this is redundant as I have not read every post in this thread. I did, however, read every thread on the other forum. Lots of bad and wrong information/conclusions on that site. Now I know why I am a member here and not there.
My opinions:
1) The light pole on the overseas police bikes is inducing the wobble. Watch the radio antenna on your cage. Under most conditions it is bent straight back. Under the right conditions it gyrates wildly.
2) Improper dealer setup of the bike out of the crate is the cause for the wobble in the US model. I imagine that considerably more 1300s are correctly setup than wrongly setup explaining why it happens enough to be noticed but does not happen on the majority of bikes.
3) The owner survey they cited said that 43% of owners have experienced a weave. If most owners are like me they would have answered this question "no" because when I experience "weaving" on the 1300, I expected it and did not consider it a problem as it would happen on most any bike- dirty air behind an 18-wheeler to be prime example. If most owners answered this question accurately, I believe because of the above example, they would have to answer "yes" leading to a much higher percentage. Some will and some won't. That is why I believe the percentage is as high as it is.
Concerning my second opinion, I have an extremely good dealer here. I knew their mechanics well when I purchased my two ST's from them. I believe the "setup guide" was followed precisely. That's why I have never noticed a "weaving" problem on this bike.
BTW, I have riden in head winds, tail winds, cross winds, with top box, without top tox, good tires, bad tires, two-up, solo, pulling a trailer, lightly loaded, heavily packed, legal speeds, not so legal speeds, good roads, bad roads, sunshine, rain, hail, shield up, shield down, shiel middle, well you get the idea, and many, many combinations of these and have never ever felt the "weave" in over 100,000 miles. I'm telling you, bike setup is the problem.
My opinion of course!
My opinions:
1) The light pole on the overseas police bikes is inducing the wobble. Watch the radio antenna on your cage. Under most conditions it is bent straight back. Under the right conditions it gyrates wildly.
2) Improper dealer setup of the bike out of the crate is the cause for the wobble in the US model. I imagine that considerably more 1300s are correctly setup than wrongly setup explaining why it happens enough to be noticed but does not happen on the majority of bikes.
3) The owner survey they cited said that 43% of owners have experienced a weave. If most owners are like me they would have answered this question "no" because when I experience "weaving" on the 1300, I expected it and did not consider it a problem as it would happen on most any bike- dirty air behind an 18-wheeler to be prime example. If most owners answered this question accurately, I believe because of the above example, they would have to answer "yes" leading to a much higher percentage. Some will and some won't. That is why I believe the percentage is as high as it is.
Concerning my second opinion, I have an extremely good dealer here. I knew their mechanics well when I purchased my two ST's from them. I believe the "setup guide" was followed precisely. That's why I have never noticed a "weaving" problem on this bike.
BTW, I have riden in head winds, tail winds, cross winds, with top box, without top tox, good tires, bad tires, two-up, solo, pulling a trailer, lightly loaded, heavily packed, legal speeds, not so legal speeds, good roads, bad roads, sunshine, rain, hail, shield up, shield down, shiel middle, well you get the idea, and many, many combinations of these and have never ever felt the "weave" in over 100,000 miles. I'm telling you, bike setup is the problem.
My opinion of course!
Me thinks that my theory of staying away from big trucks and vans etc is the right thing to do. you will loose any argument with them, even in so far as the wind etc issues...:beer3:
woodybelle
Site Supporter
Steve why don't you read the Ride Magazine test on the weave, load your bike so it is susceptible and then ride it at speeds between 110 an 130 mph and see if your bike does the weave. Those of us that have experienced know that it is a serious issue. We talk about it to educate others about it. It is very dangerous but it can be avoided by being educated about it. My advice is to read the article and learn how avoid the circumstances that can put you in harms way. Thinking that your bike is immune to it can be very dangerous. I used to think maybe my bike wouldn't do it too but then one day when the conditions were right, at 110 mph, there it was. The weave is not the dirty air feeling so many talk about, when you ever do feel it you will know why it is referred to as a weave. It is not the bar shake, tankslap type of movement that so many bikes exhibit but rather a whole bike weave that seems to come from the rear of the bike. If you want to avoid the weave raise the screen, or empty the panniers, or ride with a passenger. If you don't believe your bike does it lower the screen, load the bags and go ride it at 110 to 130 mph and get back to us.
I'm sorry, I can't make my bike "weave". I have riden it with loaded bags, lowered screen and with and without loaded top box at over 100 mph. I don't think my bike is immune. I just stated that I have never experienced it. However, I am educated/aware of what has happened to others and hope that would make me prepared for when/if it happens.
As I stated, these were my opinions on what causes this.
Edit: I have read the entire Ride Magazine article.
As I stated, these were my opinions on what causes this.
Edit: I have read the entire Ride Magazine article.