Balance shaft issue

drrod

drrod

Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
1,301
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Bike
'04 ST1300
Need some advice/help!!

I foolishly tried to adjust my counterbalance shafts. There was nothing really wrong, just got to fiddling one day. Well, to make a long story short, now the bike squeals like a pig (especially when cold). I know that this means that the lash is too tight, but try as I might, I just can't get it too lessen. I have readjusted them many times (using the recommended technique) but the result is the same. What has me worried is that the sound stays the same regardless of where the adjustment is set. When I try to readjust, I cannot get them to give the "stones in a coffee can" sound. The squeal lessens/changes pitch somewhat but does not subside. I realize that there is normally a degree of noise but I have compared it to several other ST's and it is not only louder but higher pitched.
What has me a bit concerned is the fact that the adjusters only move about a quarter of a turn. How much should they be able to turn?
Don't ask if I should have left them alone!!!!
Thanks
Rod
ps - sorry for the long post.
 
Make sure that you are adjusting them in the correct order.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/
Motorcycle Info and Accessories
This page Copyright ? 2003-2007, by Mark Lawrence.

The first few steps must be done with the engine cool to the touch. Remove the black fairing nose piece. To do this, remove the three nylon rivets under the nose of the fairing, then two philips screws and two rivets on the nose piece. You can pull the nose piece out without removing any other fairing pieces. The adjusters are on the front of the engine on the left side, under the clutch lever.
Using the 10mm "bent" wrench in the Honda toolkit, loosen the pinch bolts. Don't loosen too much, or they will rotate on their own when you warm up the bike. Just loosen them enough to turn the adjusters.
Locate the punch mark on your adjusters. Adjust the upper balance shaft first, and the lower shaft second.Upper: turn counterclockwise until resistance, then back off 1 notch.Lower: turn clockwise until resistance, then back 1 notch. This will get you very close.
Now start the bike and let it warm up. While the bike is running you can fine tune your adjustment.Upper: turn counterclockwise until squealing is heard, then back off till squealing stops.Lower: turn clockwise until squealing is heard, then back off till squealing stops.
Rev the bike a few times to check that neither whine nor rattling are excessive. Readjust balance shafts as necessary. Turn the bike off.
Tighten up pinch bolts. Attach fairing nose piece.

He has some very good pictures on His Site.

I hope this helps!
 
Yes, I adjust the top one first. I follow the written procedure carefully. What I don't understand, is I cannot get the bike to "rattle" as so many have described when the lash is too loose. Makes me wonder if the adjustment is somehow seized. How much should the adjuster be able to be turned? Will they only turn about 60 degrees (ie. only along the marks)?
Thanks
Rod
 
HI Rod, I'm a Calgary rider as well. I have exactly the same thing. I cannot hear the rattle on the loose side of the adjustment, just the squeal all the time. I just bought the bike and have never heard another ST to compare. It quiets down a bit when warm but still squeals. I have 18K on the clock.
 
What I have done is (as per the procedure), turned the adjusters (cold engine, not running) until resistance is felt and then backed off on increment. The squeal is there at that point; as soon as you start the engine. Quickly loosening the adjuster has no effect. In other words, it appears that the adjuster will not allow the lash to be lessened enough (just a thought). The only thing I know for sure is that I have the loudest ST that I have heard and it wasn't like that before I messed with it.
Ray, I will try your method and see what happens.
Thanks
Rod
 
STingray said:
.... Maybe even have the engine cranked with the kill switch off, in case the engine needs to be spinning when moving the adjuster.

All this is just thinking out of the box for now.

Let us know what the outcome is....
Click to expand...

Ray,

Just out of curiosity, how can you crank the engine with the kill switch off?
 
drrod said:
What I have done is (as per the procedure), turned the adjusters (cold engine, not running) until resistance is felt and then backed off on increment. The squeal is there at that point; as soon as you start the engine. Quickly loosening the adjuster has no effect. In other words, it appears that the adjuster will not allow the lash to be lessened enough (just a thought). The only thing I know for sure is that I have the loudest ST that I have heard and it wasn't like that before I messed with it.
Ray, I will try your method and see what happens.
Thanks
Rod
Click to expand...

Sounds to me you have not yet adjusted the balancers with the engine running and warm. Am I correct?

The static adjustment (cold and engine not running) is really just a starting point for you. I never do the static adjustment, but always warm the engine up, and leave it running during the entire process.

You do a more accurate adjustment with the engine running and warmed up. Loosen up the upper shaft clamp, turn it clockwise to loosen it (and you're not going to hear any rattle when you loosen it), then counterclockwise until you hear a "DIFFERENCE" in sound. Now back it off clockwise again until the "DIFFERENCE" in sound dissapears. When it does, continue to move it one notch clockwise. You do this to avoid the squeal you mention when you start the engine when its cold. So,,,,,,,,if you don't like the squeal on a cold engine, back if off a notch as mention above, if not, just leave it where the squeal just dissapears. The squeal will dissapear when the engine gets warm. Good Luck.

No do the same on the lower shaft.
 
Last edited:
Like I mentioned previously, I followed the write up to the letter. ie. started with a cold engine and then tried to fine tune when warmed up. No real progress. It does quiet down when warm but not nearly to the extent it should.
Rod
 
Tor, I will give your method a try and see what happens although I am pretty sure I have done this already (tried so many different ways). I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks
Rod
 
Either there is something radically wrong with your engine...

or...

you're confusing the normal ST whine with the unbearably shrill squeal that is heard when the gears mesh too tightly.
 
I have compared my bike side by side with several other ST's. Mine (consensus of all) is significantly louder; much louder than the normal whine that I am familiar with.
 
STingray said:
Hmmmm, I haven't done it on the 1300, but isn't it like the 1100? (On the 1100 you can crank the engine with the kill switch "off")

If they're not the same, I boo-boo'd. Sorry. :doh1:
Click to expand...

Ray some of the early model years for the 1100 this was true, my '93 a case in point. Sometime later in the production run, not sure what year, Honda changed this so that you could not crank the engine with the kill switch off. The story I heard was Honda dealers were getting dumb warranty claims after riders would grind their batteries to death, not realizing their kill switch was off. With my '93, it always started so quickly that if it cranked over more than usual I would immediately check the kill switch.

The 1300 is like the later model 1100s, no switchy no cranky.
 
"It does quiet down when warm but not nearly to the extent it should."

How many miles on your bike? How many miles on the other bikes?

Just because theirs are quieter doesn't mean you're not getting a proper adjustment. It could be that the gears have not worn in as much and simply make more noise. Straight cut gears will whine it's in their nature.

I have over 69,000 miles on my '06 and have not done a balancer adjustment. My bike is quieter now than when it was new.
 
STingray said:
So, how'd you like some of my old stomping grounds (Taos) Jeff? I lived in Los Alamos some years back. Most people are surprised at how beautiful the area is...

Glad all are home safe!
Click to expand...

It was nice Ray. I have a separate post with a link to my photos in the WeSTOC forum.
 
Well, I couldn't keep my mitts off of this adjustment. I only have 4000+ miles on the bike but it sounded like fun so I tried it. Everything went off without a hitch. I can't really say it was out of adjustment at all but now I know how to do it


Tor said:
The static adjustment (cold and engine not running) is really just a starting point for you. I never do the static adjustment, but always warm the engine up, and leave it running during the entire process.
Click to expand...

One comment about this statement of leaving the bike run while you do it. You know the mantles on a Coleman lantern and how they burn white hot? The exhaust pipe...that runs right by the pinch bolt...is 9 times hotter than that Coleman mantle!!!! It must be about 3 trillion degrees. I touched it with my knuckle on my index finger for a nanosecond and my skin turned white. Looks like a dab of tooth paste on my knuckle. It happened so fast and was so hot I can honestly say it didn't even hurt. No place to be playing around if you have 5 thumbs on each hand.
 
Last edited:
I've been looking for things that might cause the problem you describe, without a great deal of success. Checking the manual again, I cant see anywhere that says so, but Im guessing that the shaft and the end of the shaft do not share the same centre - so turning the adjustment moves the balancing shaft into or away from the other gears.

Mark Lawrence's excellent page has photos and diagrams at the bottom (scroll down). Note the punch marks.

When installing the shafts during assembly, the lower one is put in first and the upper one second. They can be installed only if the punch marks are facing up - ie in 12 o'clock position - so it must be possible to rotate the upper shaft to get the punchmark at the top and then the lower shaft counterclockwise to get the punch mark at the top. (This is the way the manual describes to remove the shafts and gears). You say you can turn them only by a quarter turn ? Hmmm - it doesn't fit with having the marks at the top. HAving the marks at the top is the only way the shaft can be withdrawn from the crankcase - so I reckon it HAS to be possible to get the punchmarks to this position !


While looking at this I notice that the end of the shaft protudes from the pinch bolt housing. Is it possible that the pinch mechanism is not properly in place ? The bolt immediately above the shaft holds the 'shaft holder'. This must be tightened before the pinch bolt is tightened. No torque value is given in the manual.

I suggest slackening off the pinch bolt. Take out the shaft holder bolt (above the shaft), and remove the shaft holder (with the pinch bolt). Do not disturb the shaft but take a look at the end of the shaft - make sure there are no burrs which are preventing the shaft from being turned. Then replace the shaft holder and bolt. Dont tighten the bolt yet - does this give you any more freedom in rotating the shaft ?

If it does, then follow the guidelines that you have been following again - get a rough position, then tighten the shaft holder bolt. It's an 8x25 I think which would suggest a torque value of 22Nm - but check this out for yourself.

Once the shaft holder bolts are tightened, go through the process again to get a rough set up, and then do it with the engine running.

nb when Honda say do it on a cold engine, they mean anything less than 35 degrees C. Thats what they say. So just less than body heat.
 
be careful of those hot pipes, burned my hand real good, had to adjust mine because of a bad vibe at 4,000 rpm, now smooth as silk, even my bmw bro was more impressed with it as his bmw gt,(got taken)
 
I haven't got back to try any of the suggestions offered yet.
The bike has 35,000 miles on it. I use Rotella synthetic oil and it is changed regularly (no difference in sound with new or old oil).
I'll keep trying things and see if I can at least get it back to like it was before I started mucking around with it.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I appreciate it.
Rod
 
I couldn't resist trying it again. I started the bike today and it just seemed louder than usual. Maybe my hearing was better today than usual. I decided to try the procedure again. All thru the steps as usual but I backed it off more than I did the last time. Tighten till I heard the screetch and backed it off a little and the screetch went away then for the heck of it I backed it off a little more and it got even quieter yet. Took it for a ride and I am happy I did it again. Seems better/quieter even if it is just in my head. That's what counts anyway, isn't it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom