Bazzaz !!!

[Catmandu2]

So I chose to keep this threads name simple,,, and to the point of the project. Which of course,,, is to add a few more torques,, on an already good running ST13. My bike is a high miler now,, at 212k km's. It runs fairly cool,,, well not way hot anyway. I actually own a K&N filter,,, but don't use it because my beach town area is pretty dusty. And, I have 18" delkovic slipon's,,, which I run with the new longer baffles in. So it could be a little less restricted,, and would flow a little more than it actually does. But reliability is very good,, mileage is good,,, power is good, and noise is good,,, and I want to keep it that way. So why not hot rod it it a bit more, eh ?? Bazzaz is a well known supplier of fuel mapping race systems. I have done quite a bit of research,, and want to thank Whooshka,, Pyro,, and Honda-st-team ,,, and the guys at Bazzaz, for relating their experiences with this product. The install is going to include their self-mapping option,, and a dual-map selector switch which I can use in different ways, once experience is gained. I want to be as self reliant as possible,,, although there is a Bazzaz dyno shop located an hours ride away, if I need it.

So in the past couple of weeks,, my much loved ski hills have been closed,,, due to covid lockdown,, and we have received a good 4 feet of snow,,, which I blow around daily. So I currently have a fair bit of time to devote to this project,,, although I am in no rush,, and have a fairly cold shop to work in. I will throw up some photo's of the steps along the way. And,,, if anyone has some comments to contribute,,, please do. First step,, after stripping it down,,, was to pull the 5-way,, which showed a goopy build-up at the map sensor end of the tee. I replaced it all with slightly longer hoses,, to elevate the tee for drainage,,, as per Larry's suggestion. The PAIR (honda calls it "air injection") system came out easily. And Bazzaz supplied a simple block off kit for it. Next step will be a new set of plugs. Then,, a starter valve sync,,, so that will be done before the Bazzaz fuel mapper goes on. I'll post again,, after I complete the sync,,, cheers,,, CAt'

 

[Jambriwal]

So I chose to keep this threads name simple,,, and to the point of the project. Which of course,,, is to add a few more torques,, on an already good running ST13. My bike is a high miler now,, at 212k km's. It runs fairly cool,,, well not way hot anyway. I actually own a K&N filter,,, but don't use it because my beach town area is pretty dusty. And, I have 18" delkovic slipon's,,, which I run with the new longer baffles in. So it could be a little less restricted,, and would flow a little more than it actually does. But reliability is very good,, mileage is good,,, power is good, and noise is good,,, and I want to keep it that way. So why not hot rod it it a bit more, eh ?? Bazzaz is a well known supplier of fuel mapping race systems. I have done quite a bit of research,, and want to thank Whooshka,, Pyro,, and Honda-st-team ,,, and the guys at Bazzaz, for relating their experiences with this product. The install is going to include their self-mapping option,, and a dual-map selector switch which I can use in different ways, once experience is gained. I want to be as self reliant as possible,,, although there is a Bazzaz dyno shop located an hours ride away, if I need it.

So in the past couple of weeks,, my much loved ski hills have been closed,,, due to covid lockdown,, and we have received a good 4 feet of snow,,, which I blow around daily. So I currently have a fair bit of time to devote to this project,,, although I am in no rush,, and have a fairly cold shop to work in. I will throw up some photo's of the steps along the way. And,,, if anyone has some comments to contribute,,, please do. First step,, after stripping it down,,, was to pull the 5-way,, which showed a goopy build-up at the map sensor end of the tee. I replaced it all with slightly longer hoses,, to elevate the tee for drainage,,, as per Larry's suggestion. The PAIR (honda calls it "air injection") system came out easily. And Bazzaz supplied a simple block off kit for it. Next step will be a new set of plugs. Then,, a starter valve sync,,, so that will be done before the Bazzaz fuel mapper goes on. I'll post again,, after I complete the sync,,, cheers,,, CAt'

Always interested in mods, improvments to our two wheeled world. Keep us updated.

 

[Whooshka]

Awesome! I was thinking about you just yesterday as I was boxing up my ST goodies for the new owner. Good luck with the install. Don't hesitate to reach out.

 

[Buckeye Rich]

Really looking forward to following this. I have debated doing this same thing!

 

[Catmandu2]

Thanks for the encouragement,, gang. I hope to get into the SVS (starter valve sync) later today. The weather has warmed to the point that I can open the garage door enough to not gas myself. Here is a good video that I found on the process. I also follow my factory service manual. Not expecting any dramatic results here, but you never know till you check. More later,,, cheers,, CAt'

ps: although the video is for a Honda vfr800,,, I think you will recognize the throttle bodies

 

[Larry Fine]

What the heck is a starter valve?

 

[Catmandu2]

What the heck is a starter valve?

I guess in general terms,,, the starter valves control and affect the lower rpm range, and start up mixture ratios, on a fuel injected engine. You often hear the synchronization of these valves referred to as TBS (throttle body sync). They should be checked periodically,, as they can become unbalanced,, resulting in bad stuff,, like lean burn,, rough idle,,, uneven acceleration,,, running hot,,, mileage issues,,, etc. The procedure is in the FSM. Or you can watch the video, to get the general idea,,, cheers,, CAt'

 

[dduelin]

Starter valves in the ST1300 (and VFR800) ensure the proper amount of air enters the cylinders at idle and immediately off idle rpm when the butterflies are closed or barely cracked open. They have no affect on fuel/ air mixtures above fast idle rpm.

A throttle body synch could considered analogous to adjustment of the idle circuits of a multicylindered carburetored engine.

 

[TerryS]

My simplistic understanding is that on a carbed engine, the throttle butterflies are kept cracked open at idle to allow air in, and the opening of the butterflies is adjusted so they all flow the same air volume to each cylinder, where one butterfliy is fixed and the others can be adjusted relative to that one. In a an FI engine like the VFR and ST, the butterflies are fully closed at idle, and the air to run the engine is admitted through the plunger-style starter valves; one is unadjustable and the others have some adjustment so their airflow can be matched to the first. Idle speed control is achieved by opening the SVs more or less. If you are familiar with the enrichener plungers on the ST11 carbs, the SVs are quite similar in design to those.

Sorry, back to the thread. Best of luck and thanks for sharing Cat. I confess I've thought about pulling the PAIR system off my 1300 just to get rid of the extra plumbing, but had not spotted any block-off plates for sale.

 

[Shawn K]

Unless you're planning on doing a dyno run on the stock setup, then immediately doing your modifications and immediately doing another dyno run, how do you plan on determining whether your changes had any actual benefit, or if placebo effect is skewing the data?

 

[Catmandu2]

Unless you're planning on doing a dyno run on the stock setup, then immediately doing your modifications and immediately doing another dyno run, how do you plan on determining whether your changes had any actual benefit, or if placebo effect is skewing the data?

Data ??? I'll be using the old "seat of the pants dyno",, Shawn. Other than for fuel consumption. I am pretty well calibrated to my bike. And fortunately,, the only person I have to prove anything too,, is myself. cheers,,, CAt'

 

[wjbertrand]

When the engine is cold it needs additional air to match the richer mixture being provided by the injectors/ECU. As the engine warms and the ECU leans out the fueling to normal, the valves close. There's wax motor with coolant circulated through it that drives the starter valves via a linkage. I don't think they have any effect on the way the bike runs once it's fully warmed up. If you ever start your engine cold with the air box removed, you can really hear the starter valves sucking air for a minute or so. As the engine warms, they close, go silent, and the cold idle comes down to normal. If they somehow got way out of whack you might have some cold starting / idling issues that would clear up when warm. Honda does not specify/require an inspection or adjustment interval for these in their maintenance guide.

 

[Catmandu2]

Honda does not specify/require an inspection or adjustment interval for these in their maintenance guide.

When I last checked my valve lash,,, I found they were all okay. But the only way to find out if things were in spec,,, was to do it myself,,, as PO's and dealers may have been in there before I owned it. Now would be a good time to confirm that the SVS is dialed in properly,,, me thinks,,, cheers,, CAt'
ps: great description of the SVS operation,, WJ,,, thx

 

[Whooshka]

Unless you're planning on doing a dyno run on the stock setup, then immediately doing your modifications and immediately doing another dyno run, how do you plan on determining whether your changes had any actual benefit, or if placebo effect is skewing the data?

Sometimes the actual benefit is not a huge increase in BHP. Sometimes it's just for rideability. Eliminating any flat spots or lean surge, things of that nature. Sometimes seat of the pants dyno is all you need for that.

 

[Catmandu2]

Not as much time for the project today. But,, I did change the plugs,,, which is easily done when the tupperware is off. The old plugs were pretty good,,, slight signs of heat. Likely from screaming down I-75, to tour around with Uncle Phil and his posse !! So the new NGK's are a step colder. The PAIR assembly was extracted last night,,, and it certainly opened up the back of the engine bay. This makes it easier to run the new FI harness,, I am told. But tonight I tidied up the details,,, with caps on the reed valve covers,, and a resistor plug to replace the pair solenoid (red dot along the left frame rail). I calibrated my new economy class vacuum gauges,, and have them in place. Temp's tomorrow are expected to be nearly up to the freezing mark,,, so it should be a good opportunity to do this SVS check. Cheers,, CAt'

 

[Bmacleod]

Hey Alan, I'm curious about the resistor plug to replace the PAIR solenoid. Was this recommended by the Bazzaz camp or someone else, for that matter. Not disputing, just curious, as I have ran without the PAIR solenoid for a couple of years with no resistor, with no ill effects. Is there a reason or thought that one should be aware of if they are omitting this piece?

 

[Catmandu2]

as I have ran without the PAIR solenoid for a couple of years with no resistor, with no ill effects.

Hi Brent,, the resistor would simply be an attempt to fool the ecm into thinking the pair solenoid is still there,,, thus preventing an FI fault light. Apparently,, you were not getting that light anyway. So nothing to worry about. The pair block off kit for the ST1300 is also used by the KTM 1250 Iron Duke, hence the orange color of the blocking caps (I guess). Both bikes are on the kits label. Maybe the KTM's ecm needs the resistor. There is actually very little to this pair block off kit. It is convenient,, but I could have saved $30.us by scrounging items needed for the task. Cheers,, CAt'

 

[Catmandu2]

BTW,,, I just want to mention that the only reason I removed my PAIR connections was because Bazzaz recommended that,,, for use with it's Z-fi system. I had considered removing or disabling the pair system a couple of years ago,,, when I noticed that my reed valves were not in good shape. But, after doing some digging,,, I determined that removing it would not bring any performance improvement,, as it is a pretty benign emissions control. So I don't want anyone to feel like their pair system is something that needs to go away,, because doing so will not likely bring any noticeable change. Cheers,, CAt'

 

[Bmacleod]

BTW,,, I just want to mention that the only reason I removed my PAIR connections was because Bazzaz recommended that,,, for use with it's Z-fi system. I had considered removing or disabling the pair system a couple of years ago,,, when I noticed that my reed valves were not in good shape. But, after doing some digging,,, I determined that removing it would not bring any performance improvement,, as it is a pretty benign emissions control. So I don't want anyone to feel like their pair system is something that needs to go away,, because doing so will not likely bring any noticeable change. Cheers,, CAt'

Okay, thanks Alan. I removed mine, hoping to cut back on the popping on decel from the delkevic pipes. I have never had an F1 light (yet). Look forward to hearing your progress with the Bazzaz system

 

[woodybelle]

I do not believe this is correct. The starter valves are adjusted when the engine is hot so they definitely affect warm engine idle. The throttle butterflies close completely when the throttle is closed so if the starter valves did not pass air the engine could not idle. I can feel the difference in hot idle after a SVS.

I don't think they have any effect on the way the bike runs once it's fully warmed up.