Changing clutch - special Honda tool?

[Rhubarbray]

Ok, I have the friction plates, steels, and gasket to replace the clutch on my '01 ST11. It slips under hard acceleration and there's VERY little engagement point between off and on. I have the manual, plates are soaking, I opened the manual,...........only to see I need a special Honda tool to hold the spring towers on the clutch hub to get the central nut off. Not happy. Couple of questions, 1. What size is that staked nut? How does the Honda tool work? It sounds like there's a set of hollow tubes that fit over the spring towers and secure to the holding plate. That's it? Seems like a recipe for snapping a tower or two to me! If I can see the tubes correctly they look like they're hollow with a nut securing them to the plate, are there supposed to be bolts going through the tubes threading into the spring tower?

Does anyone have pics or dimensions of one? I can machine one up at work but it'll take me a while. I looked up the price from Honda,.................$500!!! Damn!!!

 

[Paul]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263119880022

 

[Rhubarbray]

Well, would ya look at that!

 

[Rhubarbray]

I'm looking at the manual again and if the springs and plate are removed there's still no way to remove the inner drive basket so yes, it does look like the 11 is an oddball.

 

[raygks]

I just replaced my clutch plates last month, had a really hard/unsuccessful time with a breaker bar, even with gears engaged and rear wheel chocked thru swing arm.

You need a 30mm socket, after multiple attempts & sore arms/body, called a buddy with a simple battery operated impact wrench(for wheel lug nuts removal), took less than 3mins to remove said nut and basket.

I didn’t buy the special tool since I didn’t figure my 2000 model clutch lasted 270kkm

Original clutch stack(friction/metal plates) & springs thickness till in specs but having slipping during hard acceleration in lower gears and hard shifting as well, especially in lower gears/neutral. Going up steep incline is a major issue for me with pillion.

New plates & EBC springs(oem springs not available) cured all the above mentioned, shifts like butter now, neutral is a breeze.

I bought new clutch cover and slave gaskets, but original was in good condition so clean up and reuse without any leaking for last 500km.

 

[Hvymax]

I just replaced my clutch plates last month, had a really hard/unsuccessful time with a breaker bar, even with gears engaged and rear wheel chocked thru swing arm.

You need a 30mm socket, after multiple attempts & sore arms/body, called a buddy with a simple battery operated impact wrench(for wheel lug nuts removal), took less than 3mins to remove said nut and basket.

I didn’t buy the special tool since I didn’t figure my 2000 model clutch lasted 270kkm

Original clutch stack(friction/metal plates) & springs thickness till in specs but having slipping during hard acceleration in lower gears and hard shifting as well, especially in lower gears/neutral. Going up steep incline is a major issue for me with pillion.

New plates & EBC springs(oem springs not available) cured all the above mentioned, shifts like butter now, neutral is a breeze.

I bought new clutch cover and slave gaskets, but original was in good condition so clean up and reuse without any leaking for last 500km.

Glad I have an air impact.

 

[static]

This is in the "loaners" section of flea mkt, if you still need it. Works very well.

 

[ST1100Y]

Glad I have an air impact.

Unless industrial grade, are most not strong enough to break the 110Nm/80ft-lb on the lock-nut...
BTDT and the 6 Bar/90psi a shop compressor is able to deliver continuously, don't help much either...
Went cordless, Bosch, blue series, 18V, >200Nm breaking power... pops it off within the blink of an eye...
(also have a 230V model, capable of 400Nm... and braking your wrists...)

Soak the friction plates in the to be used engine oil prior installation...
And observe the orientation of the steel plates upon assembling the plate-pack...

The "clutch holder/tool" is actually only needed while torquing the new(!) lock-nut (P/N 90231-MM5-000) back on...
And don't forget to punch the safety crown into the shaft key/slot afterwards...

 

[Sunday Rider]

Were the old clutch springs within spec too like the old clutch plates?

 

[raygks]

Were the old clutch springs within spec too like the old clutch plates?

I’m assuming this question is for me, hence replying. Yes the old original springs are individually each within factory specs but I can see the variations between them are much larger(42.14-42.47mm) than new EBC springs(42.84-42.96).

Another observations on the original plate stack, steel plates are looking good, friction plates 1st/last has significant wear while the rest of the middle x8 plates looks in really good condition.

 

[raygks]

Unless industrial grade, are most not strong enough to break the 110Nm/80ft-lb on the lock-nut...
BTDT and the 6 Bar/90psi a shop compressor is able to deliver continuously, don't help much either...
Went cordless, Bosch, blue series, 18V, >200Nm breaking power... pops it off within the blink of an eye...
(also have a 230V model, capable of 400Nm... and braking your wrists...)

Soak the friction plates in the to be used engine oil prior installation...
And observe the orientation of the steel plates upon assembling the plate-pack...

The "clutch holder/tool" is actually only needed while torquing the new(!) lock-nut (P/N 90231-MM5-000) back on...
And don't forget to punch the safety crown into the shaft key/slot afterwards...

Martin, you’ll be surprised what modern 21V impact wrench performance nowadays, I was amazed by an el cheapo $50 Chinese non branded unit when it pop the clutch housing nut off easily, when I’ve spend 2-3hrs alone trying to wrestle with breaker bars and the backlashes of the basket.

If the impact you’re using can pop off car wheels lug nuts, theoretically it shouldn’t have any issues with our st11 clutch nut(both are torqued at 110Nm)

I tend to believe if a 21v battery operated wrench can do it, a pneumatic impact(rated 300/400Nm) should be easy peasy as well

 

[Sunday Rider]

I’m assuming this question is for me, hence replying. Yes the old original springs are individually each within factory specs but I can see the variations between them are much larger(42.14-42.47mm) than new EBC springs(42.84-42.96).

Another observations on the original plate stack, steel plates are looking good, friction plates 1st/last has significant wear while the rest of the middle x8 plates looks in really good condition.

Thanks! I was hoping you’d answer.
Was curious as my clutch is not slipping and shifting is smooth the only thing is the friction zone is in the last 1/4” it feels like. Thought maybe the springs may be suspect.

 

[MaxPete]

Ok, I have the friction plates, steels, and gasket to replace the clutch on my '01 ST11. It slips under hard acceleration and there's VERY little engagement point between off and on. I have the manual, plates are soaking, I opened the manual,...........only to see I need a special Honda tool to hold the spring towers on the clutch hub to get the central nut off. Not happy. Couple of questions, 1. What size is that staked nut? How does the Honda tool work? It sounds like there's a set of hollow tubes that fit over the spring towers and secure to the holding plate. That's it? Seems like a recipe for snapping a tower or two to me! If I can see the tubes correctly they look like they're hollow with a nut securing them to the plate, are there supposed to be bolts going through the tubes threading into the spring tower?

Does anyone have pics or dimensions of one? I can machine one up at work but it'll take me a while. I looked up the price from Honda,.................$500!!! Damn!!!

I have found those clutch-holding tools to be useless.

In fact, this is timely as I have to remove the clutch on my ‘78 Yamaha XS650E yesterday and to get the central nut OFF - I just put the 30 mm socket on an electric impact gun and buzzed it right off.

To reinstall the nut, do the following:

1. Screw the nut on by hand as far as possible
2. Put the bike in first gear
3. Have someone push on the rear brake pedal to lock-up the transmission, while you are…
4. ….torquing the nut with a torque wrench.

Because the brake pedal and the clutch are right beside each other on the old Yamaha, I was able to push on the brake pedal and torque the nut myself, but on an ST, you’d likely need a helper.

Again, I have owned a couple of those fancy “clutch-holding” tools (both aftermarket) and found that they were junk. They simply folded up when I was trying to torque the centre clutch nut.

I’d guess that the Honda OEM tool might be better - but the cost - YIKES!

 

[raygks]

Thanks! I was hoping you’d answer.
Was curious as my clutch is not slipping and shifting is smooth the only thing is the friction zone is in the last 1/4” it feels like. Thought maybe the springs may be suspect.

If my memory recalls, ever since Jan'2000 when I collected the bike new, the clutch has always been engaging at the last few mm/cm of the lever.

Some years ago I replaced the brake/clutch lever to an aftermarket adjustable type(fits VFR) & it helps a little with the lever range reach compared to original lever, but the action is still same almost at the end of travel.

If your mileage is not extremely high and you ride normally(non GP/SBK racers) and you don't experience any symptoms of slipping/hard shifting, save the $$$ for something else.

FYI, another symptoms I'm facing prior to plates change, during gear shifts from 1-2/2-3, gears sometimes have grinding noise, and bike will sometimes surge forward and gears will jumped suddenly. It feels like the gears are not fulling engaging, more like only around the edge of the tooth.
It's abit terrifying if you're accelerating off at a stop and the front end drops due to hard engine braking at lower gears.

 

[Sunday Rider]

If my memory recalls, ever since Jan'2000 when I collected the bike new, the clutch has always been engaging at the last few mm/cm of the lever.

Some years ago I replaced the brake/clutch lever to an aftermarket adjustable type(fits VFR) & it helps a little with the lever range reach compared to original lever, but the action is still same almost at the end of travel.

If your mileage is not extremely high and you ride normally(non GP/SBK racers) and you don't experience any symptoms of slipping/hard shifting, save the $$$ for something else.

FYI, another symptoms I'm facing prior to plates change, during gear shifts from 1-2/2-3, gears sometimes have grinding noise, and bike will sometimes surge forward and gears will jumped suddenly. It feels like the gears are not fulling engaging, more like only around the edge of the tooth.
It's abit terrifying if you're accelerating off at a stop and the front end drops due to hard engine braking at lower gears.

I ride like an old man. The bike has 130,000 miles now. I picked it up many years ago with 60,000 and that last 1/4” engagement was the first thing I noticed about it.
I also have that adjustable VFR clutch lever. It did help with the range but not the issue. I also changed out the slave cylinder with the Oberlin (sp?) I think that made shifting a bit easier. There was a write up on some folks who changed the the clutch master cylinder to one with a smaller bore (VFR) and that made a difference also.
The shifting on mine is very smooth and easy to find neutral. The only grinding I get is me not fully shifting the gears up. I know a few times I’ve shifting without using the clutch by accident and no clunking there surprisingly

 

[ST Gui]

the clutch has always been engaging at the last few mm/cm of the lever.

This had been the case with every Honda with hydraulic clutch I've had. I've found that aftermarket adjustable levers worked to bring that friction point to a much more comfortable position. Some Honda adjustable clutch lever is supposed to work well too. (VFR1000?) I did find there was a limit with on aftermarket lever. Move the friction point (via lever adjustment) too close to the bar/grip and the couch switch isn't activated.