Clutch vs. No Clutch

[dduelin]

My track bike had a quick shifter, but all that does is interrupts the ignition coil for the millisecond your shifting, effectively shutting off the engine.
They work in conjunction with the clutch, but obviously can't be used in a traffic situation for starting out.
That said, my shifting was 1 up, 2-5 down, because your toes are on the pegs to keep from sliding the bike on the side of your boot in a turn.
I've only been using two fingers to clutch in traffic, and the truth is, on the track your not going to be taking off hard from a standstill except for the start, even taking off after a rare red will usually go yellow before full green.
I realize you can put an automatic bike in manual for traffic, but if you do that, why even bother with an auto trans?
In traffic and on mountain roads I use the compression for slowing down or maintaining a downhill speed when needed.
On my ST I'll just shift without clutch with a slight throttle twist and time it depending on whether I'm going up or down.
I didn't realize automatic bikes were getting so popular.
That will totally kill the time honored stalls and resulting friendly humiliation when teaching someone to ride.

I just got back from riding 4800 miles so I could ride1200 miles in the CO mountains on my automatic motorcycle while the naysayers wanking on their keyboards repeat the usual bull feathers nursed for the last 16 years. It’s not worth the effort arguing. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one.

 

[ST Gui]

Want to downshift say from 5th to third for a corner at the end of a straight? bam bam faster than you can say bam bam it's done

That made laugh.

That was an unusual YouTube video. To the point. Concise. Perfectly explained. I'm sure it's been explained here before but this video accessed another part of my brain. It clicked and all makes sense. Thanks for that.

 

[Al st1100]

This guy is a moron. There is always little demeaning comments about certain rider, Sunday morning coffee shop adventure riders. Indy cars have paddle shifters no clutch pedal. Didn't cars start out without auto transmissions ? Maybe the "pureists" should ride on bias ply tires or bikes with drum brakes, no fuel gauge and definitely avoid heated seat, grips and cruise control.

 

[bdalameda]

We should all be riding leather belt-drive bikes. That would make us real men.

 

[Belisaerio]

I have both and am fairly happy with the DCT. My one complaint is that it can be jerky at low speeds. This is mostly a problem navigating my parking garage at work, but it can be mitigated by switching to 'Rain' mode, which makes the throttle a lot less sensitive. I've also noticed that Sport mode is much better for the steep hills, where I live, but I see that as an NT1100 specific thing.

That and, of course, stalling the ST1300 at the first stop sign before I remember and occasionally trying to shift the NT1100.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

My 2003 ST1300 was jerky / on - off feel at low speeds also. That was a major complaint when the ST13 was released. How did I solve it. Practice, practice and more practice. Also tightened up the throttle cables and I used a throttle wrist rocker. Made life so much easer. I still use the wrist rocker on my other bikes also.

 

[the Ferret]

The ONLY issue I have with the DCT (it's the same issue I have with CVT's) is that they cannot be bump started like a manual shift motorcycle. Leave some acc on or battery getting near end of life and you can get stuck. I solved the issue for me by buying a Noco Boost Sport jumper which I carry with me on all rides. I haven't had to use it on my bike yet but did have to jump my daughter-in-laws Toyota 4 Runner once. I also got Noco's battery maintainers and cables to attach directly to the batteries (incl my wife's CVT scooter battery), so I don't have to pull body work to jump them if necessary. Just plug in and turn on booster.

 

[ddemair]

A Goldwing may or may not be in my future. If it is, I felt that I needed to decide beforehand whether or not it was going to be a DCT.*

Nothing against DCT, it sounds great, but I LIKE shifting with a clutch. Yes, I know paddle shifters allow operator shifting, but there are times when I just like modulating a clutch such as using the friction zone.

As a cyclist, I'm accustomed to choosing a gear based on what I see coming up. I do this on my motorcycle also. Of course, it's not necessary when there's virtually unlimited power compared to a bicycle, but it's what I'm used to. With a DCT, I'd probably drop that useless skill (and yeah, it's pretty useless), but I sort of like having it.

* as an aside, the Goldwing decision will be based on 1 of 2 things: my partner decides to start joining me again or I get tired of maintaining a 16 year old motorcycle which doesn't have all of the modern doodads (like navigation).

 

[diferg]

I just got back from riding 4800 miles so I could ride1200 miles in the CO mountains on my automatic motorcycle while the naysayers wanking on their keyboards repeat the usual bull feathers nursed for the last 16 years. It’s not worth the effort arguing. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one.

Well Said!

 

[drrod]

that it can be jerky at low speeds.

I also found this to be a bit of an issue on my brief experience. My solution was to ride the rear brake a parking lot speeds. That seemed to smooth it out.

 

[the Ferret]

A Goldwing may or may not be in my future. If it is, I felt that I needed to decide beforehand whether or not it was going to be a DCT.*

Nothing against DCT, it sounds great, but I LIKE shifting with a clutch. Yes, I know paddle shifters allow operator shifting, but there are times when I just like modulating a clutch such as using the friction zone.

As a cyclist, I'm accustomed to choosing a gear based on what I see coming up. I do this on my motorcycle also. Of course, it's not necessary when there's virtually unlimited power compared to a bicycle, but it's what I'm used to. With a DCT, I'd probably drop that useless skill (and yeah, it's pretty useless), but I sort of like having it.

* as an aside, the Goldwing decision will be based on 1 of 2 things: my partner decides to start joining me again or I get tired of maintaining a 16 year old motorcycle which doesn't have all of the modern doodads (like navigation).

And there is nothing wrong with that. We enjoy what we enjoy. That you were at least considering a DCT indicates you at least have an open mind and are not one of those that would express to others that DCT riders are not real motorcyclists or that automatic motorcycles are ruining motorcycling which was the premise which started this thread.

To a man, those in this thread, who have had positive things about their DCT equipped bikes, are not beginners, they are not handicapped, they are life long serious motorcyclists having owned many motorcycles, with hundreds of thousands of miles under their belts. If they can extoll the virtues of a DCT motorcycle, that should tell the reader something... if they're willing to just listen.

 

[Joeywhat]

I like a clutch on my bike for the same reasons I like one in my car - because I like it. The fact that I'm 100% in control of the machine is another factor for me. I do not like a computer making decisions on my behalf when it comes to driving, regardless of how smooth or slick or clever it is. It's definitely not about speed or being more of a man, just my preference. There's a reason these types of gearboxes (and similar devices like ABS) are often not allowed in racing, they're "too good". Still not what I'm looking for in a driving experience.

That's just my opinion, everyone is welcome to theirs as well.

ETA - anyone dogging others for what they're riding in terms of gearboxes is also rather absurd. Mostly done by people with little to no emotional maturity that need to prove to others that they are enough.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

I have solved the manual vs auto trans issue for me. When I feel like driving an auto trans I drive my pickup. When I feel like driving a manual trans I drive my MX-5 Mazda. When I want to ride my bike with auto Trans (DCT) I ride my NT1100, and when I want to ride a bike with a manual clutch I ride my FJR or my V-Strom. So I have all the choices. Ride / drive what you like and like what you ride / drive.

Note to Joeywhat: Does not matter in todays modern Vehicles if they are manual or auto trans, a computer is still making the decisions . That is all a new vehicle is now, "A computer on wheels"

 

[Tedbrogden]

I'm happy that those of you with DCT bikes are pleased with your choice. I'm also happy with the clutch bike I have as I really enjoy coming out of a turn and clutching up a few gears smoothly. Meanwhile, I'm really not interested in a DCT bike- and that doesn't mean I have a closed mind on the subject. Just not interested.

 

[jdmccright]

IMO, just like automatics of all flavors have improved and taken over 4-wheelers, so they will for motorcycles and other ride-on vehicles. Its the only way to appeal to younger buyers by removing the last major difficulty to riding a motorcycle, be it real or perceived: negotiating a manual transmission. Less than 2% of all 4-wheel models offered have a stick, and their uptake is even lower. Ppl just don't want to deal with it, heaven forbid they put their phones down long enough to up- or down-shift.

And today's maniacal traffic doesn't help the hard sell. How can a mfr sell a stick-shift car under the premise that the driver is "more connected" when all he is doing is clutch in/out during their commute? For those of us that don't benefit from lane-splitting or filtering laws, all we get is a very strong left-handed grip.

So, to continue to draw in and appeal to the younger riders, DCTs (or any automatic-type trans) will have to be adopted to more models and soon. While it is a nicety for us geezers with limited mobility or dexterity, we're not target audience for this push. I'm not of the age where shifting is difficult, yet. When I get there I'll probably be relieved to have a choice of rides to pick from instead of a single, obscure outlier that has no precedent and a premium price tag to match. In the end, as long as I still get to ride, I think that's all that'll matter to me.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Less than 2% of all 4-wheel models offered have a stick

I presume this figure to be in reference to North America. Outside of North America manual transmission vehicles still seem to be very much the norm in my experience.

 

[ddemair]

I have solved the manual vs auto trans issue for me. When I feel like driving an auto trans I drive my pickup. When I feel like driving a manual trans I drive my MX-5 Mazda. When I want to ride my bike with auto Trans (DCT) I ride my NT1100, and when I want to ride a bike with a manual clutch I ride my FJR or my V-Strom. So I have all the choices. Ride / drive what you like and like what you ride / drive.

Note to Joeywhat: Does not matter in todays modern Vehicles if they are manual or auto trans, a computer is still making the decisions . That is all a new vehicle is now, "A computer on wheels"

It's nice to have choices. Glad you can. Question... is there a learning curve each time you transition from clutch to no clutch?

On my bicycle the front brake is on the left, but as we all know, the motorcycle has it on the right. Somehow I automatically use the one I want on the bike that I'm on. I find it interesting that there is no learning curve for this each time.

 

[ST1100Y]

... the most common argument against the DCT.. ie: "I wouldn't own a DCT because like to be in control"...

Still suffering the stigmata of belt driven scoots with centrifugal clutch (different tech, I know...) with their "commemorate moment" during load changes, the caused jerk and brief panic of tipping over during tight cornering or filtering through traffic... just when you need thrust there is this moment of 'plain nothing'...
Had my fair share of experiencing this throttle disconnection...
Honda's SH125 finally seem to have improved a bit in this...

A friend's wife has the NC750X DCT...
It moves, but feels kinda odd... I simply miss that direct connection of throttle and rear tire contact patch...
It does not support (my) technique of diving in with trail-braking, gentle changeover during the apex, and opening it in the last 3rd of the turn very well...
Frankly, it feels more like a commuter... but with more horsies, a stable chassis and way better brakes then a darn 300cc Vespa scoot...

And here in the old world auto tranny in cars was frowned upon for decades, low efficiency, significantly increased fuel consumption, absolute lame performance...
ze GF has this Skoda Octavia with a 2ltr diesel and automatic... as agile as a river barge...
In comparison my trusty Toyota estate feels like a sports-car... the 1.8ltr long stroke gasoline engine providing torque/performing like the ST1100...

Automotive engineers hate manual transmission, the ECU mapping has to cover the entire rev band...
Whilst with a DSG tranny attached they can gag the engine on just that narrow RPM band (i.e. 1800~2400) to fine tune emission and consumption to the 12th digit behind the comma...

For urban stop'n'go automatic might serve well...

For the fun factor, I'm still in favor of manual... the joy of downshift and letting her rip...

 

[ChucksKLRST]

It's nice to have choices. Glad you can. Question... is there a learning curve each time you transition from clutch to no clutch?

On my bicycle the front brake is on the left, but as we all know, the motorcycle has it on the right. Somehow I automatically use the one I want on the bike that I'm on. I find it interesting that there is no learning curve for this each time.

No issues going from the DCT NT11 to the V-Strom, but in the beginning, some times I would forget to pull the clutch in when transitioning from the NT to the FJR at the stoplights in the city.

 

[dduelin]

It's nice to have choices. Glad you can. Question... is there a learning curve each time you transition from clutch to no clutch?

On my bicycle the front brake is on the left, but as we all know, the motorcycle has it on the right. Somehow I automatically use the one I want on the bike that I'm on. I find it interesting that there is no learning curve for this each time.

It's the same, I agree. Our brains are up to learning new tasks and retaining the ability to complete them subconsciously, provided that we actually performed the tasks often enough to place the tasks into the lower brain where tasks are performed "without thinking" although there is plenty of brain activity going on. We are just not consciously aware of it.