Companion Bike for ST1100???

[Horsehead]

Hi all, looking for some input from those with experience adding a second (or third, fourth, fifteenth) bike to the stable...

If you followed along my Maine trip report from a month ago (how has it already been that long?!), you may remember upon arriving home I thought that maybe the ST11 wouldn't be the bike for me after all, and that I might invest in something a bit different to get me more off the beaten path.

Well, long story short, I've looked at several GSs, and the ones in my price range either have really high miles, or they are screaming deals that get snatched up before I can even get home from work to take a look at them. I'm not totally closed off to the idea of getting a GS, but the process has got me thinking a bit about my options.

So, here's where I need some input from you all... Instead of getting a different bike and saying adios to the ST11, I'm seriously considering getting a second bike that is totally different than the ST11 so that I can do different riding when the mood / opportunity arises and keeping the ST11 as my long distance mile muncher. The reliability, smoothness, no-fuss performance of the ST11 has me seriously questioning the logic of getting a different bike of any make or model that may present unwanted difficulties down the road. When I think back to why I was originally drawn to the ST11 over other bikes, all those decision making considerations are valid reasons for keeping the ST11 instead of trying something different!

Anyways, enough rambling...

I am currently torn between 3 very different styles of motorcycle. If I had infinite funds, garage space, and grace from the Mrs., I'd just get 3 different bikes and call it a day. Alas, that is not an option.

Part of me really sees the appeal of a naked sport bike, like a Yamaha FZ09 or one of its iterations / competitors (Suzuki SV, Ducati Monster, etc.). Such a bike would be a blast during the hotter months when the ST's wind protection and engine heat are big draw backs. It would also be a ton of fun on shorter rides, and likely would make me appreciate the relative comfort of the ST when those longer trips present themselves.

Another part of me really loves the idea of something like a dual sport thumper (DR650, KLR, etc.). I love the outdoors. I love camping, fishing, hunting, etc. So the thought of a machine that could REALLY get me off the beaten path is very appealing. Perhaps my one looming concern with something like a dual sport is the idea of risk of injury. It seems inevitable that if you ride off road, sooner or later you will go down. It's not a matter of if but when and how often. That would seem to dramatically increase the risk of bodily harm. I know we are all exposing ourselves to injury every time we swing a leg over a motorcycle, but something about off road riding seems to just open that lid to pandora's box that much wider. There is also the fact that I have no idea of where I would ride or who I would ride with. Finding people interested in riding together isn't exactly my forte. I don't know that I would enjoy just plugging along dirt roads by myself all the time. But who knows.

Then a third option is something like an older Wee Strom. A bit of both worlds. Lighter and perhaps a bit peppier than the ST, but still with some off road / less than ideal black top road abilities. The DL650's reputation for reliability / endless possibilities for modification makes it an appealing contender as well. Perhaps my hesitation here is two-fold. First, I hate the way the old ones look. I mean really. They could not have designed an uglier front end if they had tried. Second, I worry it would be too much of a compromise from options 1 and 2 that I would end up regretting not getting something more purpose specific.

If you made it this far, thanks for putting up with this stream of consciousness dumpster fire!

In the end, I know there have probably been a lot of others in this position and would just enjoy hearing which direction you went / how you came to your decision.

Thanks!

 

[Uncle Phil]

I'd just get another ST1100 ...

 

[paulcb]

I think you need to first decide if you really want to go off road or not. If yes, how much... just fire roads and dual tracks or tougher single tracks? Also, are you going to ride hundreds of miles to get there or trailer the bike? If no off road, that points you in a completely different direction with almost uncountable options... long distance overnight or just local day rides? How much money do you have to spend? Do you perform your own maintenance? How much is insurance? Is there a good support forum? These are the things I think of regarding a 2nd bike purchase, which is why I guess I still have an ST11 and ST13 in the garage. They just seem to cover all my personal riding needs, local and long distance, not perfectly but plenty good enough. Good luck with your search!

 

[mjc506]

Off-road riding is quite different, and an excellent way of improving your bike handling skills IMO

I had an older DL650, my first bike. I rode it off road fairly aggressively (jumps, fording rivers, mud, rocks...), did a trip around Scandinavia on it, commuting... It did it all without complaint, but eventually the off roading did start to take its toll (especially on plastics and aesthetics). But mechanically, the only thing I can think of that caused me problems was a broken dog on a gear in the gearbox https://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=20760.0 and worn needle bearings on the suspension 'cushion lever' (difficult to remove from the casting). I should've kept it... but I now have the ST13 and a CRF250L which do, between them, cover a wider range of riding. I have lost the ability to ride a few hundred miles on road, do a bit of off-road, then back home again, which I do miss.

Something like a DRZ400 would be lighter and probably has a better power/weight, but not as comfortable at speed. The CRF250L (or the newer 300, or the rally version) is slower than the DL650, but better off-road (more ground clearance) and really not that uncomfortable on-road. A Beta Xtrainer is pretty much a road legal dirt bike, similar to the KTM enduros, but is a little lighter/lower (more suited to less confident riders). But obviously not as happy on tarmac at speed.

Regarding injury off-road... Yes, you're more likely to drop it, but speeds are much much lower, so injuries don't tend to be as bad. There's always the unlucky fall, but good kit helps a lot. A heavier bike will fall harder (and be more difficult to pick up, and greater potential to trap you beneath it), but a lighter bike may encourage you to try harder things... The CRF250 rally for example is good there as it's fairly light, but 'big enough' to discourage excessive hooning The worst risk for off-road riding seems to be isolation - crash on a road, and someone will probably find you (plenty of exceptions of course). Off road, perhaps more likely there won't be anyone around for a few days. Obviously could be an issue if injured or broken down, but consider also the possibility of a simple fall, no injury, but you don't get your foot out from under the bike quick enough. It might be difficult to lift the bike enough to get free... (which is why most ride in groups). That said, I've ridden off-road for many years, almost always solo, and often on an 'unsuitable' heavy bike - I've lost count of the times I've dropped a bike, but not hurt myself above a few scuffs. Wear the gear (good boots are essential IMO), don't take risks (walk the bike through a section you're not happy with) and slow enough to enjoy the scenery, and you'll probably be fine.

Another option is a trials bike - tricky riding, very likely to fall, but you pretty much max out at walking pace. Really easy to ride on trails. But if you don't have a suitable riding area nearby, you're stuck with hauling it there and back.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossTrainingEnduroSkills for a good 'in between' for trials and trails riding.

 

[bstig60]

It's my belief that riding off-road can vastly improve anyone's riding skills. Over the years I have owned a number of dual sports, etc. to include XR200, TLR200 trials bike, XL350R dual-sport, XR650 dual-sport, and two Yamaha XT600's. I was never an aggressive rider and was always careful about what I got myself into, but, having said that, I cannot begin to count the number of times I went down. I only got hurt once, that was on the XL350 running in a rut in snow and I tried to kick off and sprained my right knee. I usually rode alone but did one cross country ride with a couple of friends from Forbestown, CA to Reno. a distance of about 200 miles one way and back. my ride was the 88 XT600. This was a combination of single track, no track, and old fire roads. My point being, for scenery, adventure, and honing one's skills, you can't beat a dual sport.

 

[dwalby]

Perhaps my one looming concern with something like a dual sport is the idea of risk of injury. It seems inevitable that if you ride off road, sooner or later you will go down. It's not a matter of if but when and how often. That would seem to dramatically increase the risk of bodily harm. I know we are all exposing ourselves to injury every time we swing a leg over a motorcycle, but something about off road riding seems to just open that lid to pandora's box that much wider.

There is also the fact that I have no idea of where I would ride or who I would ride with. Finding people interested in riding together isn't exactly my forte. I don't know that I would enjoy just plugging along dirt roads by myself all the time. But who knows.

I'm not sure how far away from civilization one can get in your mountains, but its probably far enough to do everything you can to make sure you're able to return from a ride. I don't own a dual-sport, but in my younger days I rode dirtbikes on fairly long loop rides with a few friends. We always had a backpack full of tools, towrope, etc. and 3-4 riders in the group because a crash/breakdown 25 miles from the nearest public road could be life-threatening (desert riding). If I ever pick up dual-sport riding, I'd approach it the same way, riding alone in wilderness areas isn't a very good idea. I've crashed more times than I care to admit on both pavement and dirt, so I'm not intimidated by that so much, but when you're far away from help it takes on a whole new level of importance to be prepared before you go out.

 

[Bee]

Hi all, looking for some input from those with experience adding a second (or third, fourth, fifteenth) bike to the stable...

If you followed along my Maine trip report from a month ago (how has it already been that long?!), you may remember upon arriving home I thought that maybe the ST11 wouldn't be the bike for me after all, and that I might invest in something a bit different to get me more off the beaten path.

Well, long story short, I've looked at several GSs, and the ones in my price range either have really high miles, or they are screaming deals that get snatched up before I can even get home from work to take a look at them. I'm not totally closed off to the idea of getting a GS, but the process has got me thinking a bit about my options.

So, here's where I need some input from you all... Instead of getting a different bike and saying adios to the ST11, I'm seriously considering getting a second bike that is totally different than the ST11 so that I can do different riding when the mood / opportunity arises and keeping the ST11 as my long distance mile muncher. The reliability, smoothness, no-fuss performance of the ST11 has me seriously questioning the logic of getting a different bike of any make or model that may present unwanted difficulties down the road. When I think back to why I was originally drawn to the ST11 over other bikes, all those decision making considerations are valid reasons for keeping the ST11 instead of trying something different!

Anyways, enough rambling...

I am currently torn between 3 very different styles of motorcycle. If I had infinite funds, garage space, and grace from the Mrs., I'd just get 3 different bikes and call it a day. Alas, that is not an option.

Part of me really sees the appeal of a naked sport bike, like a Yamaha FZ09 or one of its iterations / competitors (Suzuki SV, Ducati Monster, etc.). Such a bike would be a blast during the hotter months when the ST's wind protection and engine heat are big draw backs. It would also be a ton of fun on shorter rides, and likely would make me appreciate the relative comfort of the ST when those longer trips present themselves.

Another part of me really loves the idea of something like a dual sport thumper (DR650, KLR, etc.). I love the outdoors. I love camping, fishing, hunting, etc. So the thought of a machine that could REALLY get me off the beaten path is very appealing. Perhaps my one looming concern with something like a dual sport is the idea of risk of injury. It seems inevitable that if you ride off road, sooner or later you will go down. It's not a matter of if but when and how often. That would seem to dramatically increase the risk of bodily harm. I know we are all exposing ourselves to injury every time we swing a leg over a motorcycle, but something about off road riding seems to just open that lid to pandora's box that much wider. There is also the fact that I have no idea of where I would ride or who I would ride with. Finding people interested in riding together isn't exactly my forte. I don't know that I would enjoy just plugging along dirt roads by myself all the time. But who knows.

Then a third option is something like an older Wee Strom. A bit of both worlds. Lighter and perhaps a bit peppier than the ST, but still with some off road / less than ideal black top road abilities. The DL650's reputation for reliability / endless possibilities for modification makes it an appealing contender as well. Perhaps my hesitation here is two-fold. First, I hate the way the old ones look. I mean really. They could not have designed an uglier front end if they had tried. Second, I worry it would be too much of a compromise from options 1 and 2 that I would end up regretting not getting something more purpose specific.

If you made it this far, thanks for putting up with this stream of consciousness dumpster fire!

In the end, I know there have probably been a lot of others in this position and would just enjoy hearing which direction you went / how you came to your decision.

Thanks!

May I throw an oddball wildcard 4th suggestion your way, I note you are 36 so potentially (health wise) in the Goldilocks zone for a chap. A mountain bike. Honestly. I have a mid range (price wise) mountain bike that I have had hours and hours of fun on and it absolutely gives you confidence with slow speed stuff, balance etc etc that helps your motorbike riding. Its obviously good for your health. No idea where you live or the terrain but you might have some decent off road tracks and stuff nearby that you can really get stuck into with little to no inconvenience and little outlay.

 

[Larry Fine]

You could always make a sport-tourer from a smaller bike like I did my '96 Nighthawk:

 

[sky.high]

We have 5 Honda motorcycles in our garage including our ST and a new CRF450L which replaced my aging XR650L, in the last few years the off road bikes have been use a lot more than the road bikes, covid is partly to blame for getting me hooked but now there is no way back for me, my future biking will be primarily off road, its more fun, more exciting, helps keep me fit, probably won't kill me and there isn't a cop around every corner trying to take my money!
Oh, I'm new to off road, not young, should have started 40 years ago, my body aches, my off road skills suck but I'm having a ball

 

[Walleye]

Someone titled a book I believe, " When all you've ever wanted isn't enough". I often find myself in that position. I have the ST100 that covers most everything, the 07 Triumph 1050 Sprint that covers what the the ST lacks, zip. Somethings missing. I really like the yamaha DL650, honda XR650 but seem a little to much more off road oriented than I envision for my needs. You enjoy fishing, hunting and camping as do I but I do not want a motocross bike, something that covers many bases and the Kawasaki, you won't find to many folks here brave enough to Kawasaki, KLR650. Unbelievable amount of after market items available, really good on the road if your needing ride to your secluded spot, a decent seat for two like all motorcycles used to have. I know many long time experienced riders who have or had one and never heard any of them say it was not a really good bike and they liked it. A bit heavy for serious off road, lacking a bit on power though the after market has some great carb mods and some bigger bore kits that get very good reviews. Travelled to Mississippi and Arkansas last month with friends on a Harley CVO bagger and 2014 KLR 650, interstate and back country and the KLR was rite there all the time. The current market has the "asking price" elevated, on used models, sure a deal could be made. I just noticed a fair deal locally that has me chompin at the bit. I think the all around versatility of the KLR is undeniable. The new 2022 models have fuel injection, but for the price I believe a used carbed model would suffice. Good luck, let us know what you do.

 

[Walleye]

Forgot to mention the big gas tank on the KLR.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I'd just get another ST1100 ...

Got a 2006 to go with mine. Both are exceptional road trip bikes.

 

[Sadlsor]

@mjc506 took much of my "thunder", and essentially hit the high spots of my views as well.
As mentioned, you'll likely fall, but at much lower speeds, and on softer terrain. Unless you're riding in a rock garden.
It will DEFINITELY enhance your street skills.
It can be unbelievably fun to ride (and still be challenged) at 15mph, depending on terrain.
Lots of good deals on dual sports, if you look. After a lifetime (decades, anyway) of pure street riding, I got a used BMW f650gs, fuel injected. Totaled it on the roads, and bought a new one, before moving up to the KTM 950 Adventure -S.
The BMW was good for all offroad, including technical stuff, while not totally hardcore dirt. It behaved very, very well on the highways, and I took the 650 from Texas to Alabama, and later from 'bama to New Mexico. Comfort was not an issue, it did great!
However, you may be a bit more likely to find an even better deal on the aforementioned KLR, and while not fancy in any regard, it can be stone-dead reliable, and can do highways as well, albeit not as comfortably as some.
So -- lastly, finding someone(-s) to ride with.
ADVrider is all you need to know. Any offroad bike will have its own sub-forum, and I cannot imagine anywhere in the world that is not represented by someone or multiple someones that is in your immediate locale. You CAN find a riding buddy unless you're a recluse.

 

[Smudgemo]

I can't believe I got beat out for this suggestion, but you're in NC. Get a mountain bike and go to it.

 

[Nashcat]

I’ll throw in another vote for the DL650. I’ve had mine for about 6 years, and probably will never get rid of it. It ain’t the prettiest, or fastest, or newest in the garage, but it does things the other 2 bikes can’t do well. First, it’s light and behaves well on dirt roads as well as maneuvering around in grassy campgrounds. Second, it has as much storage as my Wing and. Versys, put together. It feels like it was meant for back roads and doesn’t mind crossing a creek or two, in the process. It also doesn’t mind if it requires some interstate miles to get to the backroads.

John

 

[Horsehead]

Thanks for all the awesome feedback! I really appreciate everyone who took the time to read my rambling and give an opinion.

Yesterday I had a bit of free time while my wife ran errands with our older children. I had our younger two with me and thought they might enjoy sitting on some four wheelers and mini bikes at the local Honda dealership. So we headed over there so I could get a better idea of which bikes might be actual contenders as #2 in the garage.

I quickly realized that although they would probably be a ton of fun, the naked sport bikes were out of the question. The riding position, lack of storage options, and uncomfortable seats would make for a very limited use bike. I enjoy riding the twisties, but the ST11 is a more capable bike than I am a rider, so I don't see the point in doubling down on that front.

They also had their version of adventure touring machines, the NC750x and the CB500x. Both of these looked and felt like road specific machines that have been stylized to look like their more off road capable cousins from BMW. While the riding position is much more upright than the ST11, again it seemed a bit silly to spend that much money and still be stuck on the road.

So, I went over to the dirt bike / dual sport section and I was immediately hooked. One can read all the spec sheets and reviews, but the heart wants what the heart wants. The minute I threw a leg over one of those machines, I knew that a dual sport was going to be in my future. They had two models that caught my eye. The CRF300l Rally and the XR650l.





I talked with a salesman about pricing and what all was added on top of the sticker price. Basically by the time you factor in tax, doc, destination, and assembly fees, you can figure on adding $1500 or so to the sticker price. The thought of essentially wasting $1500 to get a bike like that off the show room floor immediately ruled out purchasing new. And on e you rule out new, the CRF300l is ruled out altogether, as it's brand new for 2021. I also felt like my physical size was going to be a bit much for the smaller engine and suspension. That points me in the direction of a bit larger displacement dual sport.

It's always fun walking around the show room, but not always overly profitable. Today was different. It was both fun and informative. I feel like my search has a lot more focus after seeing all the different styles / classes of bikes side by side and getting to sit on each of them...

Thanks again for reading, and I welcome any further input you may have!

 

[bstig60]

I had an xr650l that I bought with a bad engine, I rebuilt the engine and rode the bike for a couple of years before I finally sold it. The bike is a bit heavy, but it holds its own both on and off-road. Good choice, I think.

 

[Erdoc48]

You could always make a sport-tourer from a smaller bike like I did my '96 Nighthawk:

There are definitely times when I miss my Nighthawk. I traded that in to get the 2000 ST, but I should have purchased the ST and just kept the Nighthawk

 

[mjc506]

Both good, reliable, choices

Try find a CRF250RL to look at/test ride if you can. The 300 is definitely more powerful, but the 250 will move along just fine.

Of course, the big red pig (XR650L) is great, and about as reliable as a stone axe

 

[Odie1]

I would agree with what others have said.

My second bike is an XR650L.. (2016). Picked it up for $4800 in 2018 with only 800 miles on the clock. I have put over 5000 miles on it (nearly 200 miles yesterday). It's a great back roads/gravel roads machine. I am most comfortable cruising down the section line roads in 4th gear at about 45. Or about 30 on a gravel road in 3rd gear. Then - like yesterday - when I found myself about 75 miles from home, and was ready to be home, will run without too much effort at 65 on the highway..... fast enough that I don't feel I am a hazard to the other traffic.

Now - if you want to do a LOT of single track riding... might not be the bike for you. Kind of big and heavy. And being spoiled by the ST1100's 7+ gallon tank, the 2.whatever stock tank on the XR - 125-ish mile range - just didn't cut it. Purchased a 5.5 gallon tank and can now go over 250 miles. Too many miles to ride without stretching a bit on that bike - BUT - nice when you've already done 60-70 miles and see a dirt road and head down it to see where it goes, not having to worry where the next - or last - gas station was.

Enjoy..

Odie1