Crazy service cost KTM

bdalameda said:
My oldest son Josh bought a new KTM 890 Duke a few weeks ago. Yesterday he took it into the dealer he bought it from for the first 600 mile service. He waited just an hour for the bike and was shocked when he was presented with a bill for $535.00. This was basically just an oil and filter change and they had the bike for an hour. When the service manager tried to tell him that the first service was very complex, he told him they had the bike for an hour, that's it. The shop rate was 100.00 an hour and the bike takes about 3 qts of oil plus the filter. The manager tried to then tell him that this was a flat rate for the service. He refused to pay that much for it and said he was calling KTM customer service. The manage then reduced the price to 250.00 which is still high but he paid it and left. He won't return to that dealer ever and will be doing his own servicing. I am sure this had nothing to do with the bike brand, just a bad dealer policy.
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I was once a Tech at a shop that sold KTM's, Polaris, Vespa and Apprilia motorcycles in North West Florida. First off and this is a FACT! Most shops do not have qualified techs to prtform the work on the work order. Please understand I said MOST TECH's not all Techs haven't a clue what they are doing. It's always a warm fuzzy feeling to see a person on meth working on a $23K motorcycle that came in for its first service or a major service and to find out they did nothing to your bike but look it over with a flash light after paying a S#%t ton of money for nothing or shotty work at that. I've seen it first hand and it aint good as they say in Texas! The owners of the facility is the one driving the cost for service and repair and usualy charge book rates for all work performed. To add injury to insult this makes a good qualified tech leave and go somewhere else.
 
I can only imagine how hard it must be, to run a successful multi-line motorsports business (much less a single-line, such as BMW) today.
With few exceptions, these "service techs" are making pitiful money, probably doing it because they like to, more than their wages or incentives, and are always being pushed to cut time, cut costs, and get the bikes out quickly. The hourly shop rate does seem exorbitant, but I can assure you that all that money is NOT going into the tech's greasy pockets.
The service department, as do the motor clothes, parts and sales departments, are all expected to be profit centers for the dealer's business.
I have often thought how cool it would be, to be able to take off for 6 or 9 months, and complete a tech program like MMI or ...well, I just looked and there is no second that I was thinking of. It must have gone out of business.
One source I just looked at lists average m/c technician salaries in Alabama's major cities... it's discouraging. Ranging from $26K to $41K annual salary, again dependent on which city you're in.
A couple of you (@Shuey ) may remember the Iron Butt Association's own Bob Higdon (yeah, the acerbic 3-veiner guy), who retired from his law practice and enrolled for several months in one of the MMI programs and graduated as a certified tech. He then promptly engaged the IBA's Lord Kneebone to accompany him on a trans-Russia trip, both on CB750 Nighthawks, if memory serves.
 
I only buy Japanese cars and motorcycles. Then I can decline extended warranty and other rip-offs without worrying. I do all maintenance myself, except for recalls and special things like windshield replacements. My 2012 Lexus has cost me about $1,500 in maintenance and repair over 10 years, which includes one windshield replacement and two sets of tires (which I also mount myself). My FJR costs more to maintain, but that's due to the massive difference in the maintenance schedules. The car has very few things to maintain, and way longer between checks/replacement. The spark plugs e.g. are supposed to last 120,000 miles...oil and filter 10,000 miles etc.
 
Mellow said:
I usually go to a dealer once, to get a bike, then they never touch it again...I plan on doing all the work on the RT myself unless there is some safety recall.
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Unfortunately, you can't get a service manual (i.e. CD) for any BMW newer than 2020, and the older CD's are NLA from BMW... :mad:

Got one for my '06 though! :thumb:
 
Mellow said:
I'm sure you've heard of Brad Smith aka Box Flyer.. who needs a manual with him around:
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There's also Jim van Baden over at ADVrider, who sells DVD sets for several 1150 / 1200 /1250 models, and has free content on his website as well.
Don't have the url handy, but you can ring up Uncle Google, as he's been doing this for some time.
What @Mellow says is true, more's the pity, but I wrangled with the salesman for RawHyde to hook me up, and he found the very last TWO sets that hadn't been returned to das Korp, and I got them both. I called folks at each of the 2 dealers. One set, I was told, was purchased and returned because the customer couldn't get them to load on his pc, and they were considered defective so he sent me that set for free. The other set I paid retail for, about $125 but it's for the 2020 model I believe, the last year they were distributed before yanking them all back.
I haven't even tried to load them yet.
 
Scarest thing , about being a mechanic all my life ,is knowing it's an expensive hobby. Worst part, if your honest you will be so busy you won't need to ripe people off. But try telling the S##t head college Manager that.
 
Every business, industry, service provider has folks that will take advantage of others if they can.
 
ST1300A said:
Unfortunately, you can't get a service manual (i.e. CD) for any BMW newer than 2020, and the older CD's are NLA from BMW... :mad:

Got one for my '06 though! :thumb:
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I don't know much about BMW, but I'm curious. Are you stating that the public can no longer get the manuals on CD, or that they can no longer purchase manuals of any kind?
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I don't know much about BMW, but I'm curious. Are you stating that the public can no longer get the manuals on CD, or that they can no longer purchase manuals of any kind?
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That is what he is stating, and as mentioned, I can attest. Any DVD copies you may find, will have been overlooked or not counted in a dealer's inventory. BMW Motorrad has recalled every copy at every dealer. Anyone who may be inclined to order a Field Service Manual from a dealer, would be wise to ask "is this IN STOCK at your dealer?" and if not, save yourself the frustration of "waiting for it to come from Germany". Because sweetheart, ...it ain't coming from BMW.
The service departments don't even have their own copy any more, as it's all transitioned to online. It will make any "updates" transparent and in real time.
Jim von Baden and the other one mentioned are private individuals, so these kinds of videos and other forum-based information will be the only publicly available sources of service procedures.
Clymer and Haynes may eventually release their versions, it depends on several variables, and I don't pretend to know the publishing industry. But I think we can all agree (at least all who have ever had the pleasure of working from them), the photos typically leave a LOT to be desired.
Further, I believe we can all agree the primary aim is to recoup dealership service department business (aka revenue), with the possible secondary aim of avoiding liability. For sure, it is difficult to see any benefit to the consumer / owner of these products, and I for one resent it.
Not that my resentment counts for anything.
 
Service manuals can be tough to get on newer vehicles. Manufacturers don't just provide a manual for a specific model anymore and have digitized or strictly online service manuals that cover all models together with specific chapters or sections for specific models or components. I have been trying to get a service manual for my wife's 2020 Volvo and the only one I can find that is put together from the factory service manual online system from Volvo is being sold by a guy in Japan for $1700.00 dollars!!! I keep hoping that someone will eventually make one or at least offer printouts of specific information. I am sure this is designed to make the dealerships the keeper of all knowledge regarding newer vehicles. I will still do my own service work and at least there are some YouTube mechanics out there providing service details.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I don't know much about BMW, but I'm curious. Are you stating that the public can no longer get the manuals on CD, or that they can no longer purchase manuals of any kind?
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Far worse, doesn't matter if ICOM, OBDLink LX, OBDLink MX, etc... even the shops don't have ECU access anymore...

They have to provide broadband access and purchase (expensive) factory specific hard- and software (annually licensed) that connects the vehicle with the factory home base servers, the MFG will download all data from your ECU (check manipulations, abuse, any void of warranty issues) and then (maybe) reset the service alarm, fault codes, deal with recalls, upload new firmware, unlock/pair any replaced units, etc...
You can't even make an oil change, replace brake fluid/pads or anything without having the big brother connected to reset the ECU counter/alarm/timer/whatever...
Even new tires (or change summer/snow tires) can get an issue as ABS/ESP and/or TPMS rely on wheel circumference...
So even certified dealerships are incapacitated only to a) force clients to show up there and b) collect their vehicle data...
And considering that vehicles now have OnStar/eCall mandatory and satnavs embedded, one can conclude/fear they "know" pretty much everything about you...

The issue gets especially critical on vehicles which are a product of joint-venture/based on common platforms (like Peugeot/Toyota/Mercedes), as this can result in an automotive suffering an "identity crisis" after having components like climate control, electric power steering, cam adjust/sensors, etc... replaced... the new PCB/node often refuses to work in the "alien environment" as it's originally been loaded with an older or other brand firmware release, so they waste hours with connecting, trying to update firmware, reset, unplug, disconnect battery, reconnect, get online again, etc... till ECU and replaced aux controller finally recognize and "speak" to each other...

You as operator won't even get notified about a done firmware update/change...
Retrieved the Volkswagen T6 panel van from a service appointment and nearly didn't make it off the lot due to a completely altered engine performance/character; stalled the darn, heavily loaded thing like 6 times... zero torque below ~2,200rpm...
(it got fixed later by an AAA shop dealing with an other, unrelated issue... coincidentally the tech just saw the performance regulation of the turbo charger was offset and fixed this while at it... since then I take off below 1,500rpm, even manouver in idle again...)

Great times... I like my pretty much all mechanical ST1100 even more...

And no, I don't want to know how much a Ducati dealership might charge you for replacing an air-filter or a headlight illuminant ...
 
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You think it's bad now just wait another 10 years or so when new cars and bikes are all electric. The manufacturers and the dealers will have all the software and proprietary information locked up. These will be dealer serviceable only about 70 percent of the time. NO room to holler because most people wanted these advanced machines we have now so you got it. As for me if they were had keep the ST1100 in production a simple sports tourer that anybody could work on well lest just say I'd be good. But like I said progress marches on. My old machine is 23 years old and I'm going to try to keep her going for a long time.
 
Nearest Honda dealer charges $125.00 per hour. I got tires changed there one time. Insane prices for oil and filters etc. Typical ripoff mentality. I usually change my own tires, will probably keep doing that. But it was worth a try. I don’t mind paying fair prices. Had a Harley dealers bend a rim one time on a tire changing machine. Had a Kawasaki dealer tell me a quart of oil every 3K was normal. It’s not dealer specific, they all suck. It seems they are primarily geared towards ripping off uneducated people. Had a Ford dealer tell my sister inlaw they had to remove the oil pan on her truck to change the oil because the drain bolt was stuck, costing hundreds of dollars. I told her to leave the dealers and go to the nearest oil change shop to see what they say. I think they charged her $50.00 to change the oil and filter. Dealers are predators.
 
red one said:
You think it's bad now just wait another 10 years or so when new cars and bikes are all electric. The manufacturers and the dealers will have all the software and proprietary information locked up.
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C - O - N - T - R - O - L is the motive.
Not political conspiracy theories, but historical. That is what "they" want, and that is what they shall ultimately have, just not in my lifetime.
Some can see it, while others will deny it.
 
Sadlsor said:
C - O - N - T - R - O - L is the motive.
Not political conspiracy theories, but historical. That is what "they" want, and that is what they shall ultimately have, just not in my lifetime.
Some can see it, while others will deny it.
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Yes Indeed. I alway's say I would not want to be a "youngster" today for nothing. When I was growing up things were a whole lot simpler more wholesome and way more fun. Back in my day no teenager would commit suicide because people where ridicule them or called them fat. Then as we became interested in teenage girls we knew we had to work to buy a car because in my era if you did not have a car you struck out. Fast forward to today where you see grown women walking behind their husbands and boyfriends on the streets. No job requirement at all. We did not have a lot of money growing up as dad was the only one that worked and their was 5 of us. I know it was tough for dad on a janitor's salary but we never went hungry. Never heard dad complain. I know the politicians are nobody's friend I don't look or want anything from them. I guess what I'm saying is I leave them alone and they leave me alone;)
 
ASPC said:
Nearest Honda dealer charges $125.00 per hour. I got tires changed there one time. Insane prices for oil and filters etc. Typical ripoff mentality. I usually change my own tires, will probably keep doing that. But it was worth a try. I don’t mind paying fair prices. Had a Harley dealers bend a rim one time on a tire changing machine. Had a Kawasaki dealer tell me a quart of oil every 3K was normal. It’s not dealer specific, they all suck. It seems they are primarily geared towards ripping off uneducated people. Had a Ford dealer tell my sister inlaw they had to remove the oil pan on her truck to change the oil because the drain bolt was stuck, costing hundreds of dollars. I told her to leave the dealers and go to the nearest oil change shop to see what they say. I think they charged her $50.00 to change the oil and filter. Dealers are predators.
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You do realize it ain't only them it's the Hvac company, plumber, home remodeler etc. My nephew had a frozen pipe that busted and the rip off plumber charged him $900.00 because it an emergency and he still took 3 days to come and fix it.
 
ST1100Y said:
Far worse, doesn't matter if ICOM, OBDLink LX, OBDLink MX, etc... even the shops don't have ECU access anymore...
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Everything that you wrote is ridiculous. More like the vehicles belong to the manufacturer not the purchaser. Explains why the push for right to repair laws is gaining steam.
 
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