difference between a Pan European, ST1100 and ST1100A?

As far as I can tell, after reading 44 posts on this subject, the answer to part of my question is: (technically speaking) "Pan European" is not a stand-alone model designation from Honda but a version (or variant) of a standard Honda (alphanumeric) model designation such as ST1100, that was (and still is) sold in certain European markets. The differences are (mainly): minor cosmetic, emissions control and local traffic law compliance (such as lighting). Correct? :)
 
As far as I can tell, after reading 44 posts on this subject, the answer to part of my question is: (technically speaking) "Pan European" is not a stand-alone model designation from Honda but a version (or variant) of a standard Honda (alphanumeric) model designation such as ST1100, that was (and still is) sold in certain European markets. The differences are (mainly): minor cosmetic, emissions control and local traffic law compliance (such as lighting). Correct? :)
I wouldn't call the non-North American models a "version" or "variant" of ST1100, as that implies to me much more than just a different marketing approach for those markets in which "Pan-European" has a direct resonance.

1. There are model differences in ALL markets in which Honda sells motorcycles. Such differences relate to lighting, emissions and marketing, as noted above, as well as available colours, labeling and power output. These differences are reflected in the frame numbers or VINs, which differ for each such market. As noted above, the character following the "SC26" in the VIN, is used to indicate the market for which a particular model was originally manufactured. US models have a Model Code of "SC260", California-spec bikes have "SC261", Canadian bikes "SC262", Australian ones "SC26U", and so on, for European Direct sales, Germany, France, Switzerland (due to emissions laws) and (depending on the particular Model Year) sometimes Italy (used to have a single-headlight requirement), Austria and various Nordic countries. The exact codes are all listed in the front of the relevant Honda Parts Catalogue, and on some of the online microfiche (if they bothered to scan those pages--and depending on whether the source was the US-spec Parts Catalog or the ROW Parts Catalogue). In addition, when Honda made an optional ABS or TCS variant available in the same year, this too required a different Model Code to indicate that. Accordingly, each different market-specific model (and ABS variant) of ST1100 was represented by a separate Model Code (and, in many cases, separate serial production numbers). There must have been at least a dozen ST1100 Model Codes, and there have been, AFAIK, at least 12 different ST1300 Model Codes to date (4x US-spec, 2x Canadian, 2x Australian, 4x European), plus Police models...

2. In addition to a market-specific Model Code, each Honda model also has a specific Model Name and, often, a separate Nickname. I don't think Honda uses these terms, but that's how I have come to think of them. I would classify "Pan-European" as a Nickname, like "Interceptor", "Hurricane" or "RC51" in the North American markets. Nicknames are used purely for marketing purposes and sometimes do not appear in the Honda Parts Catalogues. Model Names are the familiar alphanumeric names that do appear in the Honda Parts Catalogues. For example, the Honda Parts Catalogue for the European-spec ST1300/Pan-European says "ST1300 / ST1300A" on the cover, not "Pan-European". That suggests to me that the legendary European-spec sport touring bike in question has both an official Model Name as well as a Nickname.

3. Of the more minor differences between Model Codes, surely the badges indicating "ST1100" and "Pan-European" are among the most minor. (I bought Euro-spec Pan-European fairing badges and instrument cluster lens for my US-registered, European-resident US-spec ST1300 because I like confusing people... :D)

4. My own personal view is that American Honda Motor Co., Inc. chose not to use the "Pan-European" Model Name on the ST1100 and ST1300 because they did not want to confuse American buyers with strange-sounding "ferrin" geographic references, but this also may have been because they were unsure what it meant. <GD&R>

Ciao,
 
And now I hope everyone pulls the sheets up over their heads and put this one to bed...............:BDH:
 
Nicknames are used purely for marketing purposes and sometimes do not appear in the Honda Parts Catalogues.
Well, our MFG's workshop manuals, service tables, etc... do show Pan-European on front cover and header. Yet the 1990ies Press Kits did have the big, golden Pan-European logo on the cover (I've one of those rare Honda Pan-European Press Information binders, shows the first concept drawings and more), so it seems they'd intended it as a brand-name over here.
And frankly I'd always wondered why they did not use something like Pan-America on the other side of the pond...
 
Well, our MFG's workshop manuals, service tables, etc... do show Pan-European on front cover and header. Yet the 1990ies Press Kits did have the big, golden Pan-European logo on the cover (I've one of those rare Honda Pan-European Press Information binders, shows the first concept drawings and more), so it seems they'd intended it as a brand-name over here.
And frankly I'd always wondered why they did not use something like Pan-America on the other side of the pond...
The Honda Parts Catalogue (in English) does not. These are published by Honda Motor Co., Ltd. in Japan, so I would consider them "official". I don't know what is used in German-speaking countries, but the parts books could also be Honda Japan publications, or perhaps something translated by Honda's European distributor (much like American Honda Motor Co., Inc. does for the US market).

In any case, I would say that although Model Names and Nicknames may sometimes both be used, all Honda models have alphanumeric Model Names, so it makes the most sense to refer to Honda models using their Model Names, unless you are concerned only with a very narrow market (e.g., the USA...).

Ciao,
 
The Honda Parts Catalogue (in English) does not. These are published by Honda Motor Co., Ltd. in Japan
AFAIK was the Parts Catalogue only avail in English (thus a global document), whilst the w/shop manual was issued to the sales countries in individual languages, and was as well printed by the Honda Motor Co.
Methinks Honda simply emphasized the name Pan-European as promotional measure over here (like Gold-Wing), and just couldn't find a (not copyright protected) equivalent for the US market.

Back in the 90ies the answer '...an ST1100...' when questioned what motorcycle I'm riding, only caused uncomprehending grimaces accompanied with a distinctive '...HUH?!...', while '...a Pan-European...' was at least recognised by some, rather well-informed folks; but since those are still the vast minority, so I changed my response to '...a red one...', which I'm maintaining till present day... :p:
So I still receive the '...HUH?!...' from them hypocrites, but at least I get some pun out of it...
 
AFAIK was the Parts Catalogue only avail in English (thus a global document), whilst the w/shop manual was issued to the sales countries in individual languages, and was as well printed by the Honda Motor Co.
Methinks Honda simply emphasized the name Pan-European as promotional measure over here (like Gold-Wing), and just couldn't find a (not copyright protected) equivalent for the US market.
I fear if we continue this discussion much longer we will be responsible for several boredom-induced suicides across the Pond, but I was able to find an interesting (if tiny) picture of an "ST1100" ROW parts catalogue on the Web:
140.jpg

My own copy of the ST1300 Parts Catalogue (printed original sourced from CMS, or possibly www.bike-parts.fr), as I said, does not say "Pan European" on the cover, or anywhere else inside, apart from the illustrations of the various badges, etc. However, it is English-only, and older Honda publications published for use outside of North America and Japan certainly used to be in three or four languages (I have some of those for my other, older bikes). It appears that the four-language Honda Parts Catalogue for at least some years of the ST1100 also did not use "Pan European" on the cover. What does this mean? Not much, really. In addition to the ones I've purchased on Yahoo! Japan Auctions, I've also seen dozens and dozens of Honda Parts Catalogues in my quest to gather data for my PCN page. Some marketing names were used, sometimes both marketing and Model Names were used, but also (usually) Model Names only.

Ciao,
 
I wouldn't call the non-North American models a "version" or "variant" of ST1100, as that implies to me much more than just a different marketing approach for those markets in which "Pan-European" has a direct resonance.

1. There are model differences in ALL markets in which Honda sells motorcycles. Such differences relate to lighting, emissions and marketing, as noted above, as well as available colours, labeling and power output. These differences are reflected in the frame numbers or VINs, which differ for each such market. As noted above, the character following the "SC26" in the VIN, is used to indicate the market for which a particular model was originally manufactured. US models have a Model Code of "SC260", California-spec bikes have "SC261", Canadian bikes "SC262", Australian ones "SC26U", and so on, for European Direct sales, Germany, France, Switzerland (due to emissions laws) and (depending on the particular Model Year) sometimes Italy (used to have a single-headlight requirement), Austria and various Nordic countries. The exact codes are all listed in the front of the relevant Honda Parts Catalogue, and on some of the online microfiche (if they bothered to scan those pages--and depending on whether the source was the US-spec Parts Catalog or the ROW Parts Catalogue). In addition, when Honda made an optional ABS or TCS variant available in the same year, this too required a different Model Code to indicate that. Accordingly, each different market-specific model (and ABS variant) of ST1100 was represented by a separate Model Code (and, in many cases, separate serial production numbers). There must have been at least a dozen ST1100 Model Codes, and there have been, AFAIK, at least 12 different ST1300 Model Codes to date (4x US-spec, 2x Canadian, 2x Australian, 4x European), plus Police models...

2. In addition to a market-specific Model Code, each Honda model also has a specific Model Name and, often, a separate Nickname. I don't think Honda uses these terms, but that's how I have come to think of them. I would classify "Pan-European" as a Nickname, like "Interceptor", "Hurricane" or "RC51" in the North American markets. Nicknames are used purely for marketing purposes and sometimes do not appear in the Honda Parts Catalogues. Model Names are the familiar alphanumeric names that do appear in the Honda Parts Catalogues. For example, the Honda Parts Catalogue for the European-spec ST1300/Pan-European says "ST1300 / ST1300A" on the cover, not "Pan-European". That suggests to me that the legendary European-spec sport touring bike in question has both an official Model Name as well as a Nickname.

3. Of the more minor differences between Model Codes, surely the badges indicating "ST1100" and "Pan-European" are among the most minor. (I bought Euro-spec Pan-European fairing badges and instrument cluster lens for my US-registered, European-resident US-spec ST1300 because I like confusing people... :D)

4. My own personal view is that American Honda Motor Co., Inc. chose not to use the "Pan-European" Model Name on the ST1100 and ST1300 because they did not want to confuse American buyers with strange-sounding "ferrin" geographic references, but this also may have been because they were unsure what it meant. <GD&R>

Ciao,
THANKS for all the additional info! :) WOW! I am GLAD to see that other people are paying attention to details! :)
Feel free to borrow my "patented" dead horse beating stick anytime you like... :)
Tim
 
I fear if we continue this discussion much longer we will be responsible for several boredom-induced suicides across the Pond, but I was able to find an interesting (if tiny) picture of an "ST1100" ROW parts catalogue on the Web:
Yep, that's the Parts Catalogue (I own the 5th edition though...)
And here's how our genuine Workshop Manual looks like, note the imprint on the right lower corner :cool:

$_35.JPG

But my guess is that on car w/shop manuals you'll also find their market/badge names like Civic, Acura, Legend, etc...

And in regards to obscure 'name giving': the European compact Opel Kadett was sold as Pontiac LeMans in the US, so...
 
Yep, that's the Parts Catalogue (I own the 5th edition though...)
And here's how our genuine Workshop Manual looks like, note the imprint on the right lower corner :cool:

$_35.JPG
Okay, yep...so what was the point, again? :)

Given the marketing or Nickname differences used throughout the world, it seems to me that it makes more sense to refer to the bikes using the alphanumeric Model Names when they are, apart from the marketing names/Nicknames, essentially the same bikes.

For example, few people in the 'States know what a "FireStorm" is and few people outside of the 'States know what a "Super Hawk" is, but if we decide to use the Model Name "VTR1000F", we might all realise we are talking about the same bike! (I note that Germans often refer to bikes using the Model Number, or at least include the Model Number, when referring to specific models, e.g. "VTR1000F (SC36)", but only other Germans seem to understand this!)

Fr?hliche Wienachten!

[I have spent more than a few Christmases in and around Vienna--it is a wonderful city and a lovely place to be during the holiday season--Italy, where I am at the moment, is also nice, but not quite as "Christmassy"... A toast of the Gl?hwein to you!]

Ciao,
 
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