ECM FAILURE POLL AND DISCUSSION
- Thread starter Mellow
- Start date
If you can do my 2003 Blackbird I'll give you... a million... no, wait! I'll give you... a billion dollars!!!
TechKnowViking
Vendor
I’ll take that deal.
the band was Nazareth, and the song was, Dream On, I still play it as perfectly now on the drums as I did fifty years ago
TechKnowViking
Vendor
Pictures or it didn’t happen.
TechKnowViking
Vendor
For anyone seeking a repair option for their ECM, I’m now offering this as a repair service for multiple Honda models. ST1300 included, and I’ll be releasing a full repair video on my YouTube channel of the ST1300 ECM soon.
You can place an order at vikingdiagnostics.com
You can place an order at vikingdiagnostics.com
How about some more info , will the engine timing be correct, and will the bike run like before the code problem.
TechKnowViking
Vendor
It will be your ECM, unchanged, except for the Knock Circuit Acoustic Conditioning Module being replaced, removing the defective original and returning your ECM to a factory safe condition. No programming is necessary.
Be sure to let us know when this is available. Thank you
TechKnowViking
Vendor
I will, I’ll pop in here with a link when it’s ready.
Quick (urgent question).
I'm off to look at a new old ST1300 - Post 2008.
I'm embarrassed that I don't know this having owned ST1300s since 2006.
How do you get an error code if there is one. Not decode it, but force it to appear.
I know there is a way of getting another error - but not exactly - something like hold throttle at 4,000 rpm for 10 seconds. Is that correct ?
I might need someone from the UK to answer this - its past midnight in USA and I'm going to take a look this morning. (Sudden rash decision - I sold the Spyder yesterday and started looking at ST1300s again).
I'm off to look at a new old ST1300 - Post 2008.
I'm embarrassed that I don't know this having owned ST1300s since 2006.
How do you get an error code if there is one. Not decode it, but force it to appear.
I know there is a way of getting another error - but not exactly - something like hold throttle at 4,000 rpm for 10 seconds. Is that correct ?
I might need someone from the UK to answer this - its past midnight in USA and I'm going to take a look this morning. (Sudden rash decision - I sold the Spyder yesterday and started looking at ST1300s again).
OP
OP
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
To late to be of any assistance to you John, but for anyone in the future.
This is a common symptom of a defective ECM that displays error code 25 or 26 for no apparent reason on primarily pre-2008 ST1300's.
Running the engine at a sustained RPM above 4,000 for a while will trigger one, or both, of these fault codes if the ECM has this defect. It isn't necessarily a defective ECM 100% of the time but it is often enough that I would not purchase any pre 2008 ST1300 that has this symptom present.
I know that there are some unscrupulous people who knowingly hide this defect when they are trying to sell an ST1300 to the unknowing. They clear the codes so that there is no illuminated FI light when the engine is running and claim that all is good. I know this because I went with someone to look at a 2006 ST1300 that he was considering buying. I specifically told him that while he was on his road test to hold the engine above 4,000 RPM for a good 30 seconds at least. The FI light came on. I cleared the code and told him to do another road test. The light came on again. The seller claimed to know nothing about this, had never seen the FI light illuminated, and was not aware that there was problem with his motorcycle. Either he rides like an old lady never bringing the RPM above 4, 000 or he was lying.
TechKnowViking
Vendor
My colleagues and I have found the RPM requirement to be 2500 for all the other affected Hondas, such as the Goldwings, Rune, and all the Aquatrax skis. So while it’s possible that the ST1300’s RPM requirement is different, it’s unlikely.
And it doesn’t need to be ten seconds, the knock circuit immediately activates in the software once the RPM requirement is reached. The code will report immediately if the conditioner module has failed.
And it doesn’t need to be ten seconds, the knock circuit immediately activates in the software once the RPM requirement is reached. The code will report immediately if the conditioner module has failed.
There is a fellow on the website who claims he can fix the ECU if the F1 code pops up so far I haven’t seen anything that says it’s a good fix or not but if your F1 code pops up, you could look for the site and possibly be the first one to have the ECU repaired so others will know
TechKnowViking
Vendor
That’s me. I’ve got one on my desk right now and am currently working on it. The acoustic conditioners are a different part number than all the other Hondas, so I have to affect a repair on the modules themselves. I’ll be posting results here when I finish.
Simple answer. If the error has been present in the past and the memory has not been cleared the error (25 or 26) should be stored in memory and readable by the above procedures. If the memory has been cleared good luck reproducing it though it will likely return after a couple of rides.
I don't think there's anyone that could allay or confirm any of your concerns given your extensive experience and knowledge on all aspects of these bikes but my two cents anyway
when I bought my 03 Blackbird in 2023 with only 4,700 miles I asked if I could bring the RPM up gradually to ten grand (in neutral on the kick stand) to which I met not a flinch
It was an uneasy moment but I had no cause to hold it for any duration
subsequently the ECM set the 25 fault
during the transaction he asked me what I would have paid for the bike and what I thought it was really worth in real terms
no one ever asks me those questions
I gave him his asking price and the teo hundred dollar deposit and the option to buy the bike back if he had any reservation afterwards
when I bought my 03 Blackbird in 2023 with only 4,700 miles I asked if I could bring the RPM up gradually to ten grand (in neutral on the kick stand) to which I met not a flinch
It was an uneasy moment but I had no cause to hold it for any duration
subsequently the ECM set the 25 fault
during the transaction he asked me what I would have paid for the bike and what I thought it was really worth in real terms
no one ever asks me those questions
I gave him his asking price and the teo hundred dollar deposit and the option to buy the bike back if he had any reservation afterwards
Thanks guys. I went to view, met someone coming looking rather miffed - they had been looking at it, and were told - sorry, I can't. There's a guy asked me to hold it for him until he arrived.
It was pristine. Absolutely pristine. FI light went out, he held the throttle above 4K for 10 seconds for me. If the required figure is 30 secs, then I may have missed something. But I know a nicely running ST1300 when I hear one *** and this sounded good. There was no opportunity to check that the ABS light went out. But honestly, it was as good as brand new with only just over 6K miles on the clock. I bought it and it will be delivered next week. The Spyder is being collected before then.
I'm back as a genuine ST-Owner member of the forum instead of a thee wheeled 'stalker'. I wonder if I will still remember how to ride - having just mastered the art of trike riding, and I wonder if my leg is now up to holding up a Pan when I come to a halt. Hmmm. There's time to get more strength back into my legs though over winter.
*** Actually, I don't know. Everyone else's ST1300 always sounded smoother than mine. I never understood why. Until I gave my ST1300 to my brother and he rode away on it. Now it was being ridden away by someone else, it sounded better than any other ST1300 that I had ever heard. I'd only ever heard mine with my hemlet and me sitting astride it, or standing by the side of it. I'd only ever heard other people's ST1300 when they were riding away or passing by.
On an ST1100 I can get the circlip that holds the tube onto the bottom of the air filter to spring off on a trajectory such that it disappears forever without a sound.
Oh - and I can instantly recognise the sound of a piston hammering a circlip into the top of a cylinder head, when I fire up the engine.
Those two incidents may or may not be related.
It was pristine. Absolutely pristine. FI light went out, he held the throttle above 4K for 10 seconds for me. If the required figure is 30 secs, then I may have missed something. But I know a nicely running ST1300 when I hear one *** and this sounded good. There was no opportunity to check that the ABS light went out. But honestly, it was as good as brand new with only just over 6K miles on the clock. I bought it and it will be delivered next week. The Spyder is being collected before then.
I'm back as a genuine ST-Owner member of the forum instead of a thee wheeled 'stalker'. I wonder if I will still remember how to ride - having just mastered the art of trike riding, and I wonder if my leg is now up to holding up a Pan when I come to a halt. Hmmm. There's time to get more strength back into my legs though over winter.
*** Actually, I don't know. Everyone else's ST1300 always sounded smoother than mine. I never understood why. Until I gave my ST1300 to my brother and he rode away on it. Now it was being ridden away by someone else, it sounded better than any other ST1300 that I had ever heard. I'd only ever heard mine with my hemlet and me sitting astride it, or standing by the side of it. I'd only ever heard other people's ST1300 when they were riding away or passing by.
Wow. Thanks for heaping the praise on me - but really I am completely untrained and there is still a lot to know. I've never had these kind of faults on the 1300s. I do like to find out about things and to be able to explain it to myself. I know precious little about the engine on the ST1300 although I can do the camshafts, valve clearances etc - but its heart in mouth stuff. I hate doing it and its a big sigh of relief when I find the clearances are within spec. I know it can go wrong - eg the cam chain can easily be too tight for some reason that I haven't fathomed, although I can sort it out.
On an ST1100 I can get the circlip that holds the tube onto the bottom of the air filter to spring off on a trajectory such that it disappears forever without a sound.
Oh - and I can instantly recognise the sound of a piston hammering a circlip into the top of a cylinder head, when I fire up the engine.
Those two incidents may or may not be related.
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Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
The Honda service manual states to hold the engine speed above 3900 rpm to verify if fault code 25 or 26 is triggered. ST1300 owners on this site who do have this defect in their ECM overwhelmingly have reported that as long as they maintain the engine RPM below this threshold the FI light will not illuminate and code 25 or 26 will not be set. If they exceed this threshold the FI light illuminates and code 25 or 26 is set. This would seem to confirm the 3900 RPM threshold requirement for ST1300's that is stipulated in the Honda service manual. I personally always recommend 4,000 RPM or above for no other reason than just to be sure that the engine was run at a high enough RPM to have confidence in the test result while it still meets Honda's requirement of above 3900.
The test criteria in the Honda service manual stipulates to maintain the elevated RPM for 10 seconds or more to verify if fault code 25 or 26 is present. Many people on this site who know that they have this defect have reported that it can often take longer than 10 seconds before their FI light will re-illuminate after clearing the codes. Because of these two factors I always recommend a test of at least 30 continuous seconds for no other reason than an abundance of caution and because there is no good reason not to while attempting to determine if this condition is present.