Evaporative canister control system. Honda service manual sucks

SerraMesaBill

SerraMesaBill

Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
57
Age
67
Location
san diego
Bike
2005 VFR800
Hello everyone. I bought a high millage ST1300 many months ago and decided to do a valve adjustment, What a can of worms it turned out to be. Then I got side tracked and left it sitting for many months (really enjoy riding my VFR-800) well now I'm back on it.
Doing the valve adjustment wasn't mechanically difficult with the exception of the left side cam chain would jump a tooth after I put it back together and turn it motor over by hand. I mean I would line up the cam marks with the head at 9 and 3 o'clock like the book says and as soon as I rolled the engine over the chain would jump and the marks would move to 10 and 2 oclock. I thought for sure I wasn't getting the microscopic timing marks lined up incorrectly (T1) and reset the chain like 5 times. Turns out the tensioner tighten the chain up and appeared to be working correctly but under a load it would slip when it turned over.
Now 'mI stuck on the Evap canister lines. Honda Service manual 2003 -2010, page 1-61 shows the 3/8" hose that passes through the evap control solenoid to the canister is connected DIRECTLY to the vlalve body. I got the valve body and all the hoses and wires hooked up and installed and see no place for the evap hose to hook to. IS THE HOSE SUPPOSE TO CONNECT TO A MANIFOLD PORT UNDER THE MANIFOLD? ..............now that is put back together. I looked through this books 5 times and it does not specify exactly where the port is it connect too. Japs make a good bike but do a lousy job on the manual.
 
thanks for that! I found the hidden nipple. It was a 5 port plastic connection located at the bass of the valve body is. It has 4 small vacuum hoses on it and a port for the 3/8" hose. I think they are the same small vacuum lines you pick up a signal to sync the cylinders. Eyes getting worse by the year, Getting old sucks, ride while we can. So any ways Now I got the vacuum line on and it put back together I have no spark and don't hear the fuel pump prime. check the kickstand of course and a few other things. It ran when I parked it. I need a breather.
 
SerraMesaBill said:
Hello everyone. I bought a high millage ST1300 many months ago and decided to do a valve adjustment, What a can of worms it turned out to be. Doing the valve adjustment wasn't mechanically difficult with the exception of the left side cam chain would jump a tooth after I put it back together and turn it motor over by hand. I mean I would line up the cam marks with the head at 9 and 3 o'clock like the book says and as soon as I rolled the engine over the chain would jump and the marks would move to 10 and 2 oclock. I thought for sure I wasn't getting the microscopic timing marks lined up incorrectly (T1) and reset the chain like 5 times. Turns out the tensioner tighten the chain up and appeared to be working correctly but under a load it would slip when it turned over.
Click to expand...

I had the same freaking problem!! I was wondering if anyone else had this issue?
What I learned is that before you remove the cam shafts, mark the cam chain and cam sprockets with a paint marker so you can install them back at the same position. Then retract the cam chain tensioner. If the chain is slack when you remove the cams, you can't tell where to line them up going by the sprocket markings and the flat surface of the head.
THEN, you must make sure the tensioner has tensioned the chain before you turn the engine over. Mine would not take up the slack right away when I installed it. I had to manually screw the tensioner back in (counterclockwise with a small flat screwdriver) as I watched the chain slack tighten up. Then I was able to turn the engine over by hand and re check the cam shaft positions.
The right side was straight forward but my left side tensioner was acting like it was bad. Once I removed it, it acted normally? I ordered a new one just to be safe. ($120)
One thing I noticed was that the chain guide that the tensioner pushes on is very hard to move by hand. That's why the tensioner couldn't tension the chain right away. The right side works normally. Maybe with the engine heat and oil pressure, the tensioner will be able to properly tension the chain again. I'll see when I install the new one.
The dealership said to remove the valve cover and verify the chain tension when I do it.
 
You know I even did mark the cam chains but the second time I pull the #1&3 camshafts to reset them I didn't trust my marks thinking I did something wrong. The left side on mine didn't seem to lock the chain place when I pulled the tool out. so I tighten the chain tension up with with center screw and it worked. Another thing I notice is that the cam lobes are starting to open the Intake vales on #3 cylinder at TDC /T1. When I was evenly tightening the cams down the chain would jump and tooth after I reset the chain. I got around that by loosing the chain tensioner bolts half way out and turning the tensioner screw counter clockwise to insure the tensioner had good pressure on the chain. When I got the cam torqued down I back of the tensioner with a screw driver and torqued the bolts down, and recheck to insure the tensioner held the chain tight.
 
Wow.....we sure encountered the same phenomenon's then!
I had to do the exact same thing with the tensioner screw. Must be an ST thing. The right side tensioner works and acts normally when retracting and going back in.

You're right again that when at TDC (T1) on the compression stroke where you're supposed to remove the cams, the intake lobes on cylinder 3 ARE pressing down a little on the shim buckets. I read somewhere that when doing the ST1100's shims, they don't put the engine exactly at TDC for that very reason. I never had my chain jump when "tightening" the covers. I know what you mean though because when I first went in the left side, with the cam chain tensioner out and once I removed the top chain guide, the chain jumped a tooth on the intake cam? Next time I'll watch where those lobes are then stop "early" or "late". Hopefully that's not for a very very long time. :)

I decided to buy a tensioner, but probably didn't have to. The new one feels the same as the old one. For some reason, they don't tension the chain right away when installed correctly. The chain guide they press on is hard to move. Using a small screwdriver on the tensioner, I wanted to to increase the chain tension so the chain isn't real loose at start up. I'm sure the chain gets tensioned quickly as the engine runs, but to try and start it with the chain that super loose is dangerous! That's why I think the dealership mechanic told me they remove the valve cover when they do it.

I've got to mention something that the mechanic said to me. Made me shake my head.....

I first asked him about the spring tension on a cam chain tensioner. I took mine apart hoping to find a problem, but didn't. I then wondered if they come with a "preload"? I emailed both the Canadian and American Honda companies to ask that question and they said any dealership would know the answer. :) When I asked him that question also saying that I'm on forums and watch Youtube where they commonly added a turn or two to a used tensioner to perk up the spring tension, he just said "internet" and slapped his wrist! lol He had no idea if the tensioners come with a little tension on their spring, even while extended all the way. I did that to my old tensioner (1 turn) and feel I could use it now, but since I have the new one, won't.
He told me to put the tensioner in a vice to see if it can be compressed. I didn't question that, but there is a screw inside there that has to turn for the shaft to move. How would compressing the tensioner in a vice be any test??
I tried to explain my situation with the tensioner not doing what it was supposed to and he didn't seem to get it. He kept on talking about the chain slack on the other side as a cause and the tensioners do work once you remove the key. Once you turn the engine over by hand, there is no real slack between the intake cam and the crank sprocket. You can see where the slack is, but the tensioner doesn't take it up. I was seeing a big chain droop between the cams and as I screwed the tensioner counterclockwise, it gradually went away. I left a little slack so the tensioner could do the rest. Otherwise, the chain may start off too tight and wouldn't be able to loosen on it's own.
When I mentioned that the chain guide was hard for the tensioner to move, he started talking about maybe the guides were worn out. I said it only has 47,000 kms on them. He then asked WHAT TYPE OF OIL I USE? LOL I told him Rotella T6 and now Amsoil. He said that maybe because I wasn't using HONDA OIL, the cam chain guides could be worn out??? What am I supposed to think about this gentlemen? :)

Sorry for the long winded response. :)
 
Kevcules said:
Wow.....we sure encountered the same phenomenon's then!
I had to do the exact same thing with the tensioner screw. Must be an ST thing. The right side tensioner works and acts normally when retracting and going back in.

You're right again that when at TDC (T1) on the compression stroke where you're supposed to remove the cams, the intake lobes on cylinder 3 ARE pressing down a little on the shim buckets. I read somewhere that when doing the ST1100's shims, they don't put the engine exactly at TDC for that very reason. I never had my chain jump when "tightening" the covers. I know what you mean though because when I first went in the left side, with the cam chain tensioner out and once I removed the top chain guide, the chain jumped a tooth on the intake cam? Next time I'll watch where those lobes are then stop "early" or "late". Hopefully that's not for a very very long time. :)

I decided to buy a tensioner, but probably didn't have to. The new one feels the same as the old one. For some reason, they don't tension the chain right away when installed correctly. The chain guide they press on is hard to move. Using a small screwdriver on the tensioner, I wanted to to increase the chain tension so the chain isn't real loose at start up. I'm sure the chain gets tensioned quickly as the engine runs, but to try and start it with the chain that super loose is dangerous! That's why I think the dealership mechanic told me they remove the valve cover when they do it.

I've got to mention something that the mechanic said to me. Made me shake my head.....

I first asked him about the spring tension on a cam chain tensioner. I took mine apart hoping to find a problem, but didn't. I then wondered if they come with a "preload"? I emailed both the Canadian and American Honda companies to ask that question and they said any dealership would know the answer. :) When I asked him that question also saying that I'm on forums and watch Youtube where they commonly added a turn or two to a used tensioner to perk up the spring tension, he just said "internet" and slapped his wrist! lol He had no idea if the tensioners come with a little tension on their spring, even while extended all the way. I did that to my old tensioner (1 turn) and feel I could use it now, but since I have the new one, won't.
He told me to put the tensioner in a vice to see if it can be compressed. I didn't question that, but there is a screw inside there that has to turn for the shaft to move. How would compressing the tensioner in a vice be any test??
I tried to explain my situation with the tensioner not doing what it was supposed to and he didn't seem to get it. He kept on talking about the chain slack on the other side as a cause and the tensioners do work once you remove the key. Once you turn the engine over by hand, there is no real slack between the intake cam and the crank sprocket. You can see where the slack is, but the tensioner doesn't take it up. I was seeing a big chain droop between the cams and as I screwed the tensioner counterclockwise, it gradually went away. I left a little slack so the tensioner could do the rest. Otherwise, the chain may start off too tight and wouldn't be able to loosen on it's own.
When I mentioned that the chain guide was hard for the tensioner to move, he started talking about maybe the guides were worn out. I said it only has 47,000 kms on them. He then asked WHAT TYPE OF OIL I USE? LOL I told him Rotella T6 and now Amsoil. He said that maybe because I wasn't using HONDA OIL, the cam chain guides could be worn out??? What am I supposed to think about this gentlemen? :)

Sorry for the long winded response. :)
Click to expand...
I worked for a GM/Cadillac/Olds dealership in Pa. for about 8 years and found the old timers/ senior wrenches like to play the superior knowledge game with people and not give up their litttle secrets mostly out of fear of loosing their position on the totem pole. They use to give me a hard time because I was from California. In order for a dealers ship to get cars delivered Gm their techs must pass courses and be certified at a GM training facility. The old boys were not happy when the GM informed us my test scores were in the top 3% of the country. This was in the late 80's when Cadillac started using The latest ECM /BCM/ PCM , distributorless ignition systems and Antilock Brakes. Wrenches were required to pass an Advanced Specialized Electronics training course. That doesn't help me today, Got the ST1300 all put back together, have no codes and I'm not getting any spark. Power to the coils and a test ligh pulses on the neg terminal during crank.
 
Not sure how to help you. Hopefully some of the electrical guys will come here shortly.....Good luck...
 
You wrote;
I have no spark and don't hear the fuel pump prime.
Click to expand...
Is this still the case?
If so, both of those conditions will occur if the kill switch is malfunctioning. It is not the only cause, but it is a common failure point for both of those symptoms if the contacts in the kill switch are not making good connections. If this is the cause, cleaning the switch contacts will fix it. Since this is an easy thing to do, cost nothing and you have both symptoms, I would suggest that you start by either testing the outputs from it or by cleaning it's contacts and see what happens.
 
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