(FCE) Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST1300 - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

[STPaulK]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

There's a theory going 'round that the FCE itself malfunctions under high ambient temperature conditions as the hesitation issue seems to be reported more frequently then. Don't think anyone suggested the bike's ECU was overheating.

I think that theory is missing the point that the ECU is trying to perform it's own adjustments as the engine heats up. At least that cannot be forgotten when people see things change with heat.

 

[TimM]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

A bit rambling, but might be helpful... ST Techno savvy persons please chime in.

I've decided the ST1300 has a "normal" flat spot around 3500rpm and have some notes from a recent 2k trip over the Cascades, Siskiyous, and several times across the Sierra Nevada. After about 30 minutes, at temps between 65 and 75 F, altitudes over 2,500 feet, the bike will "switch" into a super lean mode for a while. An actual stumble when it happens. Switching the ignition off and back on will sometimes clear it for another 30 minutes, but not always. The lean mode is also present at less than 2500 feet, but usually isn't as noticeable.

This is NOT a fuel cut issue, rather, it is the ECU tweaking the fuel mix leaner in an abrupt step.

From comments here, some stock bikes see this behavior, some don't. My suspicion is all ST's have it; just most riders, for many good reasons, don't feel the switch when it happens.

I'm guessing here, but some who have added the FCE (mods O2 sensor feedback) are probably shifting their bikes into the range where this happens so you think the FCE is bad. While it could be defective manufacturing -- no clue what's inside the FCE, so this is all hypothetical: too much heat soldering the resistors to the wires inside the black box, or perhaps as benign as using standard precision components like 5.0% carbon resistors instead of 0.25% metal film parts... but most likely the FCE mod just changes where in the map your bike runs into the "glitch".

On a perverse note, maybe its really just the Honda engineers playing with us - occasionally "jolt" the rider back into an attentive mode. Naw -- Honda legal wouldn't do THAT, would they?

In all of this last ride, there was never anything remotely unusual going on when the "switch" happened. Steady speed - 3,000-4,000 rpm, 60-70 mph, smooth flat or slight incline roads (both up and down inclines), no cooler air near creeks, clear air with no oncoming cars or trucks, etc. The only thing is barometric pressure in the area - and searching Wunderground shows it was pretty much normal across the area, too (29.75 to 30.31).

Since the O2 sensors are likely used in a threshold mode (anyone know for sure?), I wonder if Honda doesn't have the heaters switch off after 30 minutes (its testable). This bumps the sensitivity a notch and wham...

Oh well .... even if this is fixable (I'm beginning to doubt it is) it still doesn't help with the no fuel symptoms in downhill corners. Sigh.

 

[MDTurley]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

I was my understanding that the FCE was failing at high temp after about 500 miles. I thought why not put a cooling fan back there. 12V .32amp... maybe it will help.

 

[Throttlejockey]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

They would all be failing if that was the problem, wouldn't they? I need to call Ivan and get the latest one. Supposedly he had some made w/o a particular part in them.

 

[Gene]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

These things seem to have needed a little more r+d before mass sales and what about the no refund policy ??

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Thought I'd post an update regarding my 2nd FCE, which I installed this evening.

After a not so good experience with my original FCE failing after a long hot weekend of riding, I removed it and dug into the bike looking for anything and everything I could find that might also be contributing to the surging problem.

I resoldered the FCE connections, tightened up the female connectors, applied a thin film of dielectric grease and made sure that each and every connection was being made well.

I removed all the tupperware and closely inspected the plugs, coils and wires at both the plug and coil ends. Since I had a set of Iridium plugs in the tool chest awaiting my next major tune up, I figured what the heck, put them in. The stock plugs looked fine, BTW, with about 10K on them so they're in the box as spares.

Since the previous owner of the bike lived near the ocean in Florida, there was some minor salt corrosion on various bolts and on the right coil ground mounting lugs. I cleaned that up and applied a thin film of dielectric grease to the ground lugs and remounted everything.

I removed the air cleaner and all the other stuff needed to get at the throttle bodies. I inspected the gas and vacuum connections to the FPR and TBs and they all looked fine. Reseated the injector connectors. Put in a new air filter since the old one was pretty full of dust, bugs, etc. It had about 10K on it as well.

Most of this stuff was just being anal. I buttoned everything up and went for a ride. It was OK but still had some annoying surging in various RPM ranges from 3-5K but it was driveable and mostly noticeable when going through the RPM ranges very slowly and settling on any spot that was the least bit rough.

Forward to tonight when I put in the 2nd FCE I got a week or so ago from Ivan. I made triply sure that all connections were tight and well made. When I rode the bike out of the garage I could tell right away that there was something different... The bike was running smooth. I was surprised and also suspicious since that is how the first FCE operated for the first few hours of riding.

I spent the next 45 minutes or so running around some side roads taking the bike slowly through the RPM range up to 7K and it was smooth throughout. Something I hadn't seen in the last month, so I was very noticeable. I stopped and turned off the bike 4 times to see if the surging came back after a simulated fuel stop. It didn't. I continued to run through all the RPM range and then took it out on the freeway to really open it up. It ran very smooth there too. So taking it easy and really whacking the throttle around both had similar results: very smooth operation, sort of like an electric motor and just what the FCE is supposed to do.

Tomorrow night after work I'll do the same and if it runs the same way, I'll leave it in for our planned trip down to Taos, NM for the weekend to sample fatty burritos and green chili beer. :bow1:

I'll report back after that trip. Right now I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[STomcat]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Post deleted by poster.

 

[adamk]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

I took my bike out for a 40 minute ride this evening. 72F temps. I didn't experience a single blurp. The throttle felt amazingly smooth! It's a definite keeper if this continues.

Nothing I've tried to date has come close to making this big a difference. I've tried the Techlusion, the Powercommander, FPR, etc.

Granted it's still early in the game, and I know other have started out happy only to find their bike developing hitches, but I'm a happy camper so far.

I'll try and get out more this week. If this continues I'll leave it in for my two week WeSTOC ride.

 

[MDTurley]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

I took my bike out for a 40 minute ride this evening. 72F temps. I didn't experience a single blurp. The throttle felt amazingly smooth! It's a definite keeper if this continues.

Nothing I've tried to date has come close to making this big a difference. I've tried the Techlusion, the Powercommander, FPR, etc.

Granted it's still early in the game, and I know other have started out happy only to find their bike developing hitches, but I'm a happy camper so far.

I'll try and get out more this week. If this continues I'll leave it in for my two week weSTOC ride.

Well, Adam... super... here's hoping I have the same result. Steve Sult gave me his old FPR and I still need to install it. I also ordered a stock air filter but I have not looked at what is in the bike yet. It might be my imagination but the bike fired right up and seemed to settle on idle quicker than usual... who knows.

I did get a 12V fan from Rat Shack... I am going to cool the rear tail section. My radio and adiocom are back there... it can't hurt if everything including the FCE chip and the ECM gets a little breeze.

I am going to do tires and fluids also so it may be a bit before I post a report. I took a number of photos of the install as usual.

 

[duncman]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Spoke with Ivan today and it seems that the unit I returned tested OK but they have a "modified" version that they will be sending me. When I stated that I had lost faith in the product and would rather just have a refund I was told that there are no refunds. I guess that's the price you pay for being an early adopter!

So do I understand this correctly - there is a "modified" version? Has anyone asked Ivan how to tell if you have the "original" or "modified" version? And what was modified??

 

[OttawaST]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

So do I understand this correctly - there is a "modified" version? Has anyone asked Ivan how to tell if you have the "original" or "modified" version? And what was modified??

I just received my replacement unit this morning. It has a small indentation on the end of the FCE filled with white paint. The original had no such markings. I assume this is to indicate a 2nd generation unit.

 

[flying-st]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

From what he told me, the "modified" version has a component from an alternate manufacturer. Unfortunately, this "2nd generation" had no markings, date, or version, so there was no way to tell.

Perhaps this is the "third generation" that has a mark on it.

 

[MDTurley]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Just got back from a 30 min. test ride. Yes, I know it's the middle of the night. Temp was in the high 70's.

I am happy to report the FCE has changed the bike. Hopefully forever. Like butter. Like throttle by wire. The "burble" is gone. The stumble is gone. The aggravation is gone. Can you tell I'm pleased?

Side note... my Air / Fuel ratio meter is pegged on the rich side. I don't really care. If the fuel mileage is down a bit, it was worth it. Even on startup the bike acts better. After it warms up the meter shows full rich even on decel. There is no backfire and rolling the throttle on very slightly actually works without all the histrionics. A steady cruise remains just that. No rodeo anymore.

I have not change back to the stock FPR yet. I'll do that an see if it makes a difference. I doubt that it will.

I'll post the install pics with write up soon.

 

[MDTurley]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Just got back from a 30 min. test ride. Yes, I know it's the middle of the night. Temp was in the high 70's.

I am happy to report the FCE has changed the bike. Hopefully forever. Like butter. Like throttle by wire. The "burble" is gone. The stumble is gone. The aggravation is gone. Can you tell I'm pleased?

Side note... my Air / Fuel ratio meter is pegged on the rich side. I don't really care. If the fuel mileage is down a bit, it was worth it. Even on startup the bike acts better. After it warms up the meter shows full rich even on decel. There is no backfire and rolling the throttle on very slightly actually works without all the histrionics. A steady cruise remains just that. No rodeo anymore.

I have not change back to the stock FPR yet. I'll do that an see if it makes a difference. I doubt that it will.

I'll post the install pics with write up soon.

 

[Throttlejockey]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Ivan found the problem and is sending me the latest revision that will eliminate the issue.

If anyone is having issues contact him. If you don't have the problem then chances are you won't.

 

[STomcat]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Post deleted by poster.

 

[flying-st]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

Ivan found the problem and is sending me the latest revision that will eliminate the issue.

If anyone is having issues contact him. If you don't have the problem then chances are you won't.

Heard that from Ivan too. Unfortunately the "fixed" one had the same problem only sooner. Not sure if there is a fix for the fix yet, or at least some type of marking to indicate which version it is.

 

[Throttlejockey]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

This is the latest. There is no marking, only shrink wrap on the wiring from what I understood.

I suggest anyone who is having issues to call him.

 

[adamk]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

I rode my bike to work today and everything was flawless. From low speed to 90mph everything is smooth.

From talking with Ivan on Monday, the latest "fix" is pretty recent. Unless you received your unit very recently, I doubt it's the "fixed" version. Mine is NOT the fixed version, but it works fine. It seems Honda changes <something> in the ECU from time to time and it's not easy to tell which bikes need the fix, and which don't. Understandably, Ivan only wants to send units with the fix to those that need it. As stated earlier, if you still have issues call him. If everything is OK, you don't need the fix.

It must be a real ***** designing devices like this using reverse engineering, especially when you're dealing with firmware.....

 

[NCrider]

Re: Fuel Cut Eliminator for ST - On-Off Throttle Issue Resolved

I rode my bike to work today and everything was flawless. From low speed to 90mph everything is smooth.

From talking with Ivan on Monday, the latest "fix" is pretty recent. Unless you received your unit very recently, I doubt it's the "fixed" version. Mine is NOT the fixed version, but it works fine. It seems Honda changes <something> in the ECU from time to time and it's not easy to tell which bikes need the fix, and which don't. Understandably, Ivan only wants to send units with the fix to those that need it. As stated earlier, if you still have issues call him. If everything is OK, you don't need the fix.

It must be a real ***** designing devices like this using reverse engineering, especially when you're dealing with firmware.....

YES IT IS!