Final drive ratio

[Johnhoskins93]

Hi, relatively new to the ST world. I am enjoying my 2012 ST1300. But to me it feels like I need 1 more gear (6th) to cruise at highway speed without feeling like the RPM range is too high. Is it possible to change the final drive ratio and how much work would this be? Thank you for any advice

 

[Rusty B]

Don't have that feeling with my ST1100. Two different Critters I Guess. Just got back from 45 min ride just learning the area.
We just moved in here Monday. Love the roads around here Two lane Black Top, Lots of hills and curves. Probably not much to someone that has been here for a while. I just moved here from SE Florida, and was Born and raised in Houston Texas. Lots of flat ground, and not many Trees. Can see for miles. The most hills are Overpasses on the Freeways.
Beech Island SC my new Home.

 

[drrod]

Hi, relatively new to the ST world. I am enjoying my 2012 ST1300. But to me it feels like I need 1 more gear (6th) to cruise at highway speed without feeling like the RPM range is too high. Is it possible to change the final drive ratio and how much work would this be? Thank you for any advice

Since the ST is shaft drive, changing the final drive ratio would be expensive and in all likelihood, impossible since I know of no source of either a different "ring" or "pinion" gear.
You are not the first to think that 4k rpm at 75 mph feels high, but truth be told, the ST's motor is right in its sweet spot and provides the best efficiency/performance there. BTW - a lot of large, touring type bikes, run at about the same rpm when cruising.
I would be willing to bet, that even if it had a 6 sp gear box you would still occasionally be trying to find a 7th gear ( I know I do on my Blackbird).

 

[Johnhoskins93]

Since the ST is shaft drive, changing the final drive ratio would be expensive and in all likelihood, impossible since I know of no source of either a different "ring" or "pinion" gear.
You are not the first to think that 4k rpm at 75 mph feels high, but truth be told, the ST's motor is right in its sweet spot and provides the best efficiency/performance there. BTW - a lot of large, touring type bikes, run at about the same rpm when cruising.
I would be willing to bet, that even if it had a 6 sp gear box you would still occasionally be trying to find a 7th gear ( I know I do on my Blackbird).

 

[Johnhoskins93]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I am going to have to put some miles on the new (to me) bike. Try and get used to the RPM range. Thank you.

 

[T_C]

I need 1 more gear (6th) to cruise at highway speed without feeling like the RPM range is too high.

You're not the first to desire this and you won't be the last. I find my usual commute to be upwards of 4k and since that's half way to redline I also figure way too high. Just generating excess wear and tear.

Sadly, it's not something we can change.

 

[beemerphile]

You're not the first to desire this and you won't be the last. I find my usual commute to be upwards of 4k and since that's half way to redline I also figure way too high. Just generating excess wear and tear.

As long as the engine is oiling properly (no, please!) you are not generating excess wear at those speeds. Percentage of redline is not a means of knowing how much strain you are putting on a motor. Many are designed to run flat-out all the time. Gearing a motor too high can put more stress on it rather than less. This is similar to the ease of pedaling a 10 speed bike in a lower gear at a faster rate vs. a higher gear at a slower rate. When it's hooked up to your leg muscles you can feel it. Your bike can feel it to. Assuming the valve train can take it, what matters for longevity is piston speed. With a 2.6 inch stroke on the ST13, your mean piston speed is 1,733 ft./min. at 4,000 revs. So based on a design rule-of-thumb for motorcycle engines of 4,500 ft./min. as a maximum safe mean piston speed, the ST is at 38% of it's safe speed at 50% of revs. Quite mild - as evidenced by the number of these bikes running over 200,000 miles without engine work. There is no problem here to fix as far as excess wear and tear. Car motors use a lower design max of between 3,500-4,000 ft./min. The design maximum FPM of the piston involves a number of parameters including the non-rotating mass (because of acceleration and deceleration forces), and when the particular ring design starts to flutter. Shorter strokes permit (and require) higher RPM's. Race and sport bikes can raise the FPM (and thus RPM) limit by light-weighting the reciprocating parts and high tech ring designs.

I know a guy who commuted to work on a 250 Ninja. Poor thing was running 9,000 RPM on the highway for many, many years. It never objected because it was built for it. BMW R75 (750cc) airheads are running about 5,500 RPM at 70 mph. R60 (600cc) bikes were running even higher. But the 600 and 750cc bikes seemed to run as long on a top end as the R100 bikes that were running much higher gearing. They'll do it for decades. I've seen people put R100 gear sets on an R75. All they'd get is a dog. Others put lower R60 gear sets in 750's for better acceleration or sidecar use. Still no problem for the motor.

A Honda 250 Helix will run at redline until you die of old age and fall off of it.

 

[Upt' North]

"A Honda 250 Helix will run at redline until you die of old age and fall off of it". That's funny but true, we all must have had a bike like that.
I personally think the gearing is just fine and dandy on the 11 and at 4000 to 6000 I think it's the real sweet spot.
Horses for courses.
Upt'North.

 

[Johnhoskins93]

All great info. I appreciate all the input. And I appreciate this forum.

 

[Larry Fine]

A good machinist should be able to make a new pinion and ring gear set of almost any ratio to fit the rear case.

I imagine there would be a decent market for a couple of higher gear ratios with all of the STs still on the road.

 

[Shawn K]

You're not the first to desire this and you won't be the last. I find my usual commute to be upwards of 4k and since that's half way to redline I also figure way too high. Just generating excess wear and tear.

Sadly, it's not something we can change.

If you do the research, you'll be amazed at the number of Honda motorcycles (shoot, even a lot of their cars) sold in America that have a highway RPM of approximately 50% of redline. It's the way Honda designs engines... always has been.

Ever since the early days, Honda's engineering has always been focused on generating horsepower through increased RPM. There are always outliers (like the VTX series), but Honda's corporate ethos is what it is.

An ST-series bike cruises at 4000 RPM for tens or hundreds of thousands of miles. At those speeds, it's smooth, quiet, and has ample torque and headroom available for acceleration, and even gets gas mileage in the mid 40's. It gives no indications whatsoever that it's over-stressed, yet there are those who insist that it needs different gearing.

Honda is, always has been, and always will be, an engine company, first and foremost. They make some of the best engines in any discipline, and you can trust them to be reliable at the speeds they were designed to operate.

To paraphrase an old Frank Zappa line, "Shut up and ride yer motorcycle".

 

[NMSTrider]

My St1300 likes to run 4500 to 5000 rpm and I've never felt that it was a strain on the engine. The higher gear ratio sounds good for the road, but I think starting from a dead stop in what would then be a second gear ratio would be a strain on the clutch. Ride and enjoy what Honda has provided.

 

[Gus1300]

But to me it feels like I need 1 more gear (6th) to cruise at highway speed

As mentioned, many of us feel the same...occasionally I'll 'look' for that next gear that just isn't there.

without feeling like the RPM range is too high.

But then I remember that I'm in 5th already and drop back to using the gear:speed ratio vs the gear indicator that I had plans for at one time. For me, 3000 rpm = 55 mph indicated in 5th, and I see 10 mph for every 500 rpm increase, so on the 4-lane, yes, 4000 rpm = 75 indicated (or thereabouts) and these days is the max before I trigger an FI light (knock sensor code) anyway, so I usually try to stay just below that and avoid the nuisance illumination.

Is it possible to change the final drive ratio and how much work would this be? Thank you for any advice

Ride it as in and enjoy the heck out of it!

 

[T_C]

An ST-series bike cruises at 4000 RPM for tens or hundreds of thousands of miles. At those speeds, it's smooth, quiet, and has ample torque and headroom available for acceleration, and even gets gas mileage in the mid 40's. It gives no indications whatsoever that it's over-stressed, yet there are those who insist that it needs different gearing.

When cruising on the highway at 4,500+ rpm, instant acceleration isn't my thing. I'm planning long range movements not cutting in/out of cars. Use the torque, lower the rpm, increase gas mileage.

 

[SupraSabre]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your

I have only put a few hundred thousand miles on ST1300s in the last 14 years, and I still find myself looking for that 6th gear.

 

[dwalby]

I know we have a lot of people on this forum who remember the UJM days when bikes in the 750-1100cc range were geared so that 4k RPM was about 60mph, so complaining that 4k RPM @70-75mph is geared too low just makes me shake my head. Also, all the different brands have similar gearing, so its not a "Honda thing" by any means, its simple math.

The ST1300 makes its peak torque at about 6000 RPM, so from an efficiency standpoint that's where the engine would be producing the most efficient power vs. fuel consumption. If you rev higher than that, HP increases by increasing RPM, but torque actually decreases. If you rev lower than that, you're decreasing HP by both lower RPM and lower torque. By running the engine at around 4500RPM at cruising speeds, if you need to gas it to pass someone, you're moving into the most efficient part of the powerband as you rev higher while passing. If you lug the engine at low RPM, your fuel economy and power decreases because the torque is lower and the engine is less efficient.

If you want lower RPM at highway speeds, drive a car, or better yet, a diesel pickup.

 

[Rusty B]

Back several years ago, A Can-Am got on Interstate 95 with me. We were in West Palm Beach, headed North. We took off in light traffic, and were doing 70, in 55, as we got out of town, less traffic and he just kept getting faster, a little at a time.
We got to where we were running a steady 115, and kept it up till we got to Port St Lucie, and I got off. That ST1100, was solid as a rock, and she never seemed to mind. I got on the Throttle one time and she just eased on up to 120, with plenty left.
Haven't done that again, but it was fun for a little while. Then I decided an old man like me don't need to be running that fast.

 

[Larry Fine]

That's why they put the Sport in Sport Tourer.

 

[mortenk]

I loved the ratio on my ST1100. Throughout 5 years on my ST1300, I was longing for the old ST1100 ratio. However, I gradually got used to it - but never really understood why Honda changed it.

My current FJR has that 6th gear and the lower RPMs, which is probably the main reason I get 8% better fuel economy on the FJR. Having said all that: the ST1300 still feels/sounds more relaxed at 4,000 RPM than my FJR at 3,500 RPM. If it wasn't for the tachometer on my FJR, I would not believe it. It's just a completely different sound/feel from the inline 4 vs the V4...