Front End Shake

Raabit Rides

Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1
Location
placerville,ca
I have an 01 1100, just replaced steering bearings with rollers, tire presure is right on, Tires are Avon Storm around 6k on them.
I have a violent shake if I let go of the bars at 45miles hr,
don't feel it at all if i hold on. Coasting from 70 down to a stop not a problem.
If in 3rd gear there is the shake only at 45miles speed, nothing higher, nothing lower
Everything is torqued to spec

Thanks Patrick
 
PSI front and back?
42 or 43 for my STorms both front and back.
Tappered bearings as well... some times I have a mild shake.

What did you tighten your bearings too?

Mark
 
Try jacking the rear preload up a bit. May get better, may get worse. I don't think it EVER goes completely away!

I honestly believe this is an "undocumented" feature of the 1100!:eek:
 
sirepair said:
Try jacking the rear preload up a bit. May get better, may get worse. I don't think it EVER goes completely away!

I honestly believe this is an "undocumented" feature of the 1100!:eek:
Click to expand...
That's what I thought too until I realigned my rear wheel. Head shake gone for good.
 
Have you tried changing your rear preload? If it's too high that can increase the front end geometry to the point of causing a problem. If it's too low the rear tire is carrying more wight and the light front end could be the cause.
 
hawkeyeST said:
That's what I thought too until I realigned my rear wheel. Head shake gone for good.
Click to expand...

Can you explain the process because I'm a little confused on how you can realign the rear wheel?
 
I have the exact same thing on my 93. I also have Avon Storms with about 4K miles. I would say that it has always been there. For me the shake isn't too bad it only happens if I totally let go of the bars. Not that I do that but if I relax my grip so my hands are covering them but basically not doing anything the bike will develop a head shake. It only happens while coasting and in the same speed range. It does not happen to me while braking but it is possible that I pass through the speed range that is causing issues too quickly inder braking. I would say about 45-40 mph somewhere in there. I have never noticed it while accelerating through that range and this has only happened with the Storms. My old OEM Dunlops (what are they D103 or something like that) never had this condition. I did notice a little slop in the front end. I could feel it if at a stop and if I throw they bike from side to side. Yeah I am sure some people out there will wonder how I do that but keep in mind I am 6'4" with long legs. Anyhow I initially thought it was head bearings. It was so close to the end of the season when I discovered it I let it go. Now I am not so sure. This winter I jacked it up and shook the forks and all seems fine. Next I grabed the wheel and I can fell a little slop so I am going to replace the wheel bearings this weekend.

I know that there are several posts about this problem with Avon Storms on the 1100. There are a few people that went through the hassle of swapping out tires in an effort to find the problem. Every case I read about turned out that they had a bad front tire and Avon swapped it. I think the theory was a problem with the belts possibly caused in shipping or manufacturing but I don't know for sure. For me it isn't really much of an issue but this is my only complaint about the tire. The shake is so slight that it doesn't effect me much. It is in a narrow speed range that I rarely ride in and only in one specific condition but I can replicate the issue every time. So I always keep at least one hand on the bars when in this range and more often than not both hands.

On a side note several people mentioned the head bearings. I was reading the latest issue of Cycle World (if not CW then Motor Cyclist got both mags the same day) and someone wrote in with a issue that is much like this. They were pointing to the head bearings and went over a few checks that you could try. Jack up the bike (place on center stand and use a 2x4 and floor jack on the oil pan). Then they said to check for a detent that may have been worn in the bearing races. Most likely this isn't your problem but go back and forth from lock to lock and see make sure it moves properly. Also check for play in the forks. Then to see if the bearing is too tight it said to turn the bars about half way to lock and let go. It should be able to drop to full lock by its self. Then try the other direction. Also grab the wheel as long as you are this far and check for any slop in the wheel bearing.

I have tried to adjust my air pressure a little around the 42 mark (+/- a few psi) and it didn't make any difference in the shake.

This will give you a few things to look at. But honestly it may be another case of it just being your front tire. With 6K miles I don't know if they will replace it or not. Oh another thing I assume you checked to make sure your tires are not cupped. right? Have you run Storms before or is this your first set like it is for me?
 
Byron said:
Can you explain the process because I'm a little confused on how you can realign the rear wheel?
Click to expand...

I am thinking the same thing. I didn't know there was any adjustment. It just has the axel going in the axel holes as far as I know. Unless the spacers are messed up. I don't think that is possible if it went back together but I don't know. I will have to look in the factory manual or my haynes.
 
Byron said:
Have you tried changing your rear preload? If it's too high that can increase the front end geometry to the point of causing a problem. If it's too low the rear tire is carrying more wight and the light front end could be the cause.
Click to expand...

I know I haven't tried this. I have been meaning to check the sag. I know that there is a specific amount the rear should drop when you sit on it. I don't recall what that amount is off the top of my head but it is out there somewhere. I should check that but I will do that after I try wheel bearings.
 
sennister said:
I know that there are several posts about this problem with Avon Storms on the 1100. There are a few people that went through the hassle of swapping out tires in an effort to find the problem. Every case I read about turned out that they had a bad front tire and Avon swapped it. .....


... it may be another case of it just being your front tire.
Click to expand...

I was one of these after gettting a new set of Storms.
Tried everything until another front tire.
At least it forced me to install tapered head bearings and new springs.
All along it was simply a defective "New" front storm on an ST1100.
I think it has a lot to do with the too narrow rim the ST1100 uses, 110/80ZR18.
Any little thing in the tire will show through.
Original "new" defective tire showed nothing unusual on balancer and took almost zero weight. Warranty replacement took more weight, but zero shake. I repeat, zero shake. If it shakes, something is not right. It is not something you need to live with because all ST1100's shake. Mine will not shake at any speed now that I have good front tire. Shake completely went away.

BTW, when you get a good set, the Storms are GREAT, and I will take a chance on them next tire change as well.
 
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I will likely stick with Storms. As I mentioned my shake started with this tire. That is why I asked if he has run Storms in the past. It would be more pointing toward the tire being the issue.

I guess another question is when were the tires bought. I bought mine late spring/early summer of last year. I did a tick over 5000 miles last year and I would say it was about 1000 miles into the season that I got them. Maybe it was an issue with tires from early last year. Maybe a bad lot.

It just seems that I was reading about several of us having this issue around the same time. I never bothered with swapping out the tire for a new one.

EDIT: Actually the more that I think about it I was trying to get the tires mounted around the week of Memorial day. I couldn't find a shop to mount them and I ended up doing it my self. Also my current tire that shakes also took no weight to balance.
 
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RobsTV said:
Bought my defective front Storm late April or early May of '08 as well.
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That is kind of what I thought. I wonder if there was a bad lot or something. I wonder when the original poster bought his? Do you recall quite a bit of chatter about this issue around this this time last year or shortly there after? I know I bought my tires and sat on them for a bit. I didn't want to scrub two new tires, be rusty at riding from the long winter and have to deal with road salt and sand being left over from the winter. So I waited until late May to get them mounted.

I guess here is another question I bought mine from one of the popular tire places here. Southwest tire or something like that. It is one of the names that comes up when people ask for a place to buy tires from. By chance did you get yours there? I think one thought that was tossed out was that it may have to do with possible cord damage when the tires were banded together for shipping. Maybe the banding machine put too much pressure on them and then they were tossed around a little rough by the carrier. Just a thought.

Also how did you go about getting them replaced. The reseller or Avon Directly?
 
sirepair said:
How is this alignment done? Inquiring minds want to know! (especially since the rear tire is currently off!)
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I had to shim the final drive. This coincidently fixed 4 problems. Less wear on splines/drive dampers, cured a pull to the right, eliminated decel head shake and increased tire mileage. Got 14k miles from the last set of RoadTecs. Here are a couple of photos:

http://homepage.mac.com/robertparker/PhotoAlbum30.html
 
sennister said:
Also how did you go about getting them replaced. The reseller or Avon Directly?
Click to expand...

No one in the lower 3/4ths of Florida stocks Storms in our 110/80ZR18 size (or any size?). Must be ordered.
Came from a SE US warehouse.
Warranty replacement came directly from Avon in Washington state.
They actually warranty shipped both front and rear since I was not sure which was the cause. Only needed the front. No charge of course. Avon is a great company to deal with.

If I remember correctly, from reading another ST1100 based forum during the summer of '08, it seems the Storms in our size disappeared from the U.K. and went to backordered status over there for several weeks. That says a lot since that is where they are made. If there was an issue, I would guess that they have it solved now.
 
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I am just wearing out my third front STorm, and right at the end it has begun the infamous head shake. It is horribly cupped, I can't give it up until the air is sticking out.
 
hawkeyeST said:
I had to shim the final drive. This coincidently fixed 4 problems. Less wear on splines/drive dampers, cured a pull to the right, eliminated decel head shake and increased tire mileage. Got 14k miles from the last set of RoadTecs. Here are a couple of photos:

http://homepage.mac.com/robertparker/PhotoAlbum30.html
Click to expand...

So if I understand this correctly the final drive was not aligned with the left side of the swingarm. The shim you made moved the final drive to the rear which brought things into alignment. Because it was out of alignment the tire didn't track straight and the splines were not perfectly aligned. Makes sense to me. How thick was the shim that you made to put things back into proper alignment?
 
Byron said:
So if I understand this correctly the final drive was not aligned with the left side of the swingarm. The shim you made moved the final drive to the rear which brought things into alignment. Because it was out of alignment the tire didn't track straight and the splines were not perfectly aligned. Makes sense to me. How thick was the shim that you made to put things back into proper alignment?
Click to expand...

Yes Byron, you understand perfectly. I have a .040" shim in this swingarm. I replaced the original swingarm two years ago because it was getting rusty. I had a .030" shim in it. To date I have only checked 4 swingarms but they were each off a significant amount and no two were alike.
 
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