Full Spectrum Li-Ion batteries with Intelligent Pulse Technology can be resurrected at the push of a button

[MajorTom]

I just ran across this information in today's paper in the Auto section. Full Spectrum Power makes Li-Ion batteries for motorcycles that include something they call Intelligent Pulse Technology (IPT), a microchip that senses the battery's voltage level and implements a low-voltage lockout to disconnect the battery from the bike when it falls to 12.9 V. To start a bike with an IPT battery that has been drained simply uncover the battery, push the IPT reset button and punch the start button. The battery retains enough power to start your bike.

And they also claim their Pulse IPT battery doesn't need a Li-Ion specific charger. According to the website the battery management system in the IPT system prevents damage to the battery when using a non-Li-Ion charger and, while a Li-Ion charger is recommended, the only difference is that the battery "won't be as carefully attended to during charging" when using a standard charger.

The Pulse IPT V10 model for the ST1300 is listed at US$169 on their website, which seems competitive with other brands considering the technology.

 

[ST1100Y]

Finally an interesting concept in that area...
The problem is how to reach the dreaded button without unbuttoning the ST first

 

[T_C]

Cool.... something I've advocated for a long time. A battery reserve.

I'll give them kudos for advertising real capacity, not lead equivalent!!

 

[wjbertrand]

AntiGravity batteries has been doing this for a while, they call it their "restart" technology. They've been promising a remote control to perform the reset instead of having to access the battery for several years now, but so far have not offered it yet.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/productline/starter-batteries/restart-oem/

 

[ST Gui]

I guess a cut-off for parasitic drain or leaving the ignition or farkle On is a good thing particularly if it means ruining an Li battery.

Is this Li-Ion or Li-Fe or some other blend? All the site says is 'Lithium'. For a bit that stays under Tupp it's a nice looking battery.

Speaking of Tupp - pulling a side cover off to push a button to get going instead of hoping somebody will pass by (assuming one has jumper cables) seems like a chore easily forgotten. Maybe a thin rod slid down between the frame and cover to push the button. A discrete hole drilled?

My problem would be 30min later remembering 'Wait- I think there's a button on my battery that needs to be reset!'

A direct fit is nice. No shimming. You're probably not getting anymore capacity though than the smaller lighter approximate version they previously sold.

 

[GGely]

Thanks, MajorTom, very interesting stuff.

Regarding pushing the reset, maybe a remote controlled 12volt plunger mounted on titanium brackets, run off a solar panel mounted on the fairing?

On a serious note, I’ve bookmarked their website for the future. Batteries don’t last forever!

 

[The Dan]

Li-Ion

Li-Ion, If you look at the web page you can see it on the top of the battery.

 

[wjbertrand]

I think lithium iron (LiFePO4) is safer chemistry than Li-ion. Much more resistance to runaway reactions is my understanding.

 

[T_C]

Is this Li-Ion or Li-Fe or some other blend? All the site says is 'Lithium'. For a bit that stays under Tupp it's a nice looking battery.

Technically, LiFe is Li-ion. It's just a different chemistry then the more common Co or Mn.

Yes.. I use the same terminology as you do, normally, Li-Io is not LiFe, but in reality it is.

These will be LiFe on the inside, The other common Li-ion chemistrirs would not be able to handle the recharge rate of an alternator.

 

[ST Gui]

These will be LiFe on the inside

That would be my preference. The site isn't especially helpful. There's no application chart so I guess like car batteries the P.14 designation is a size category so it will fit where the YZT14S lives.

This battery has a lot going for it such as being available in the same size but with 360CCA (for a price!). It looks like it has four terminals so extra connections should be easier. It's about 1.3" taller. I couldn't find a pic here to see if that's a problem. This could be at the top of the list for replacements when the time comes. I like that I can use my Tenders but would soon get their charger if it in fact does better battery management. Not doing it all in one shot makes it easy on the wallet.

 

[wjbertrand]

I don't think a 1.5" taller battery will fit. The OEM battery needs to slide in under the subframe. Scorpion makes a replacement (SSTZ14S-FP) that will fit rated 387 CCA. There's an internal battery management system but no reset button. I've put one of these in my Super Tenere which happens to use the same battery size as the ST1300, it's a real dynamo!

 

[CYYJ]

The person who wrote the newspaper article that Barry referred to in his first post above is my next-door neighbor. Here's a link to the article: Is this the perfect battery?

My neighbor was pretty impressed with this battery, and it takes a lot to impress him considering he has a different car to review just about every week - Ferraris, high-end Porsches, even the occasional Rolls-Royce. And a different bike to review about once a month.

I've done a little homework today to determine if this battery is suitable for our STs. It seems that the manufacturer makes two different models (same physical size) of this battery, as follows -

PULSE IPT BATTERY P.10 - 210 CA (cranking amps), 3.6 AH (amp-hour) - USD $169.00
PULSE IPT BATTERY P.10S - 720 CA, 12 AH USD $279.00

The dimensions of the two batteries above are identical to the ST 1300 OEM spec battery, except that the Pulse battery is 4mm less high - a negligible difference.

The OEM spec Yuasa battery in a ST 1300 is a YTZ14S, which is rated at 230 CA and 11.2 AH. It has a MSRP of USD $235 but is available online at prices around USD $150 including shipping.

We would need the larger, more expensive P10.S battery for our STs in order to provide the required amp-hour capacity. To the best of my understanding of electricity (not my strong point), the cranking amps of the basic (P10) would be sufficient to start the ST, but the much lower amp-hour endurance might not be enough to support idling the motorcycle without battery discharge when any additional loads such as a heated seat, heated grips, heated clothing, additional incandescent lighting, etc. are operating.

The battery has a 5 year warranty, which is pro-rated in favour of the customer (i.e. if it fails in the last year, you get a 35% credit towards purchase of a replacement). I'm going to investigate this further, and probably buy one of the P10.S models if the manufacturer will ship it to Canada. I'll follow up here with results if I do that.

Michael

 

[ST Gui]

but the much lower amp-hour endurance might not be enough to support idling the motorcycle without battery discharge when any additional loads such as a heated seat, heated grips, heated clothing, additional incandescent lighting, etc. are operating.

Given that the Yuasa battery is listed at 11.2Ah it wouldn't seem you're losing anything with the IPT. Either battery would succumb to long (well maybe not so long) term idling with a heavy load. Switching to LED lights does lighten the load and heated gear could be switched off or the revs raised if needed. Personally I don't see that being a problem any more than the WA Yuasa YTZ14S.

Where did you find the application chart for the IPT batteries?

Personally I don't know that manufacturer ratings for any battery can be trusted. It's one thing to spec them on the manufacturer's bench but I don't know that those figures transfer accurately to real world use.

 

[SMSW]

I have not looked at my battery in months. Is the positive lead/terminal on the front or aft end of the battery? It appears the 10S comes in only one flavor - if you install it with the positive terminal aft, the reset button will be inboard, under the frame? That means one would have to remove the plastic main fuse holder and push the button with a screwdriver from above? Seems like a lot of work just to get a reset button. How often have you had to jump your bike in the last 10 years anyway?

I bought a Shorai last year for around 150 USD (price approximate) and later got their special charger. I admit it makes no economic sense compared to the Yuasa that can be had for around $125 (only did a quick 1 minute search) - or a whole lot less for one of those not-mainstream-brand versions. Should it last longer than my AGM batteries of yore, the cost per year will probably average out to be nearly the same. But I really bought it because the lighter weight would make lifting the bike after a tip over easier. Alas, as I get older, the bike gets heavier, and this has not panned out....

This reset button comes at a premium price (most lithium batteries can be charged with a std charger - just not if they have a sulfate reducing cycle). Again, how often would you use it? I assume that as the battery ages and nears replacement time, or even when it 'dies' on you out in the wilds of Idaho pushing that button will be fruitless?

 

[ST Gui]

Looking at the pics of the battery tells me that terminal locations aren't an issue.

Some standard chargers will work on this battery - the site says their charger will work better. Maybe not just ad-speak. It may address cell balancing that Supe as mentioned.

The button seems to operate a 'reserve' capacity like old gas tanks. When the voltage drops to a preset limit the battery takes itself out of play. Forget to turn off something? The battery is ok. Develop some parasitic leak? The battery is ok. The battery dies? A dead battery is a dead battery.

 

[CYYJ]

Where did you find the application chart for the IPT batteries?

There is no application chart that I am aware of for the IPT batteries. I looked at electrical specifications (CA & AH), and physical dimensions and determined that it is an acceptable substitute for the ST 1300 battery.

Is the positive lead/terminal on the front or aft end of the battery?

It's at the aft end of the OEM battery. You are correct, if the IPT battery was installed with the positive terminal aft (a necessity due to cabling on the ST), it would be a bit awkward to get at the reset button. But, I think, no less awkward than finding another battery to get a boost from, and then hooking that battery up, etc...

Some standard chargers will work on this battery - the site says their charger will work better. Maybe not just ad-speak. It may address cell balancing that Supe as mentioned.

The manufacturer provides a good explanation of why standard chargers don't work well with Lithium batteries at their website: Battery Tender for a Lithium Battery. Their explanation makes sense, and I don't think they are just trying to sell their charger - if anything, it would help their overall sales efforts if standard chargers worked well with their batteries (owners who already have a battery tender would not need to buy another charger), but, it seems there are significant differences in the operation of standard vs. lithium chargers.

I am still evaluating whether or not to purchase this battery. There is a price premium of about 50% over an OEM spec Yuasa, but there is also a 5 year warranty with quite generous pro-rating. Based on my experience with motorcycle battery life (typically about 3 years of absolute reliability, and sometimes they last longer but leave you stranded when they do die), it appears to me that the annual cost is about the same for a Yuasa OEM vs. this IPT battery.

Off-brand (white label) batteries are much cheaper, but I have no idea how reliable they are or how long they last.

Michael

 

[T_C]

Personally I don't know that manufacturer ratings for any battery can be trusted. It's one thing to spec them on the manufacturer's bench but I don't know that those figures transfer accurately to real world use.

Or they are not really comparable from battery type to another type. To pull 12ah from a 12ah rated lead acid abttery will take the better part of a day. A LiFe battery will give it up much faster (under an hour) and maintain a higher voltage while doing so. Lithium ferrite drops voltage very little during it's discharge curve, you can suck out half of it's energy, give it a bit to recover and still start the bike, I'd say you can even use up 80% of it's potential. Do that to a lead acid and you may not have enough voltage to spin the starter much less the whole motor.

 

[SMSW]

But, I think, no less awkward than finding another battery to get a boost from, and then hooking that battery up, etc...

I am still evaluating whether or not to purchase this battery. There is a price premium of about 50% over an OEM spec Yuasa,

Off-brand (white label) batteries are much cheaper, but I have no idea how reliable they are or how long they last.
Michael

Compulsive nut that I am, after my AGM batt failure on the way to OHSTOC last year, and using a Lithium jump starter battery loaned me by Pat, I decided to make the process easier. After installing my Shorai, I made a couple of 18" leads of #6 awg welding cable, one painted red, the other remained black and each had a heavy duty eye crimped to one end. This end went on the battery, the other end of each cable was fed into a stout butt splice tube and crimped. I sipped one of those plastic covers that fall off the end of fiberglass driveway markers on the + lead and taped it well. The neg lead also got tape. These are my emergency jump starter leads. I made sure they are clear of all frame parts and metal that might abrade the insulation. A short piece of loom protects the cables where they duck under the seat's frame tube just above the battery. To jump the bike, all I have to do now is pull the seat, remove some tape and clamp onto those leads.

I never pop for off brand items which might have inconvenient consequences if they fail prematurely.

Btw, the price premium jumps a bit when you factor in the special charger. Many guys do not opt for this and use any old charger. I bought Shorai's charger and don't worry about damaging the battery.

 

[wjbertrand]

The person who wrote the newspaper article that Barry referred to in his first post above is my next-door neighbor. Here's a link to the article: Is this the perfect battery?

My neighbor was pretty impressed with this battery, and it takes a lot to impress him considering he has a different car to review just about every week - Ferraris, high-end Porsches, even the occasional Rolls-Royce. And a different bike to review about once a month.

I've done a little homework today to determine if this battery is suitable for our STs. It seems that the manufacturer makes two different models (same physical size) of this battery, as follows -

PULSE IPT BATTERY P.10 - 210 CA (cranking amps), 3.6 AH (amp-hour) - USD $169.00
PULSE IPT BATTERY P.10S - 720 CA, 12 AH USD $279.00

The dimensions of the two batteries above are identical to the ST 1300 OEM spec battery, except that the Pulse battery is 4mm less high - a negligible difference.

The OEM spec Yuasa battery in a ST 1300 is a YTZ14S, which is rated at 230 CA and 11.2 AH. It has a MSRP of USD $235 but is available online at prices around USD $150 including shipping.

We would need the larger, more expensive P10.S battery for our STs in order to provide the required amp-hour capacity. To the best of my understanding of electricity (not my strong point), the cranking amps of the basic (P10) would be sufficient to start the ST, but the much lower amp-hour endurance might not be enough to support idling the motorcycle without battery discharge when any additional loads such as a heated seat, heated grips, heated clothing, additional incandescent lighting, etc. are operating.

The battery has a 5 year warranty, which is pro-rated in favour of the customer (i.e. if it fails in the last year, you get a 35% credit towards purchase of a replacement). I'm going to investigate this further, and probably buy one of the P10.S models if the manufacturer will ship it to Canada. I'll follow up here with results if I do that.

Michael

Be careful comparing cranking power ratings. Most lead acid batteries are rated for CCA or cold cranking amps. CCA is measured with the battery at 0 degrees F whereas CA is measured at 32 degrees F. The difference means that the OEM battery rated at 230 CCA would actually provide ~290 CA. Conversely the Pulse battery above that is rated for 210 CA will only provide about 79% of that, or about 165 CCA. CCA ratings for Lithium batteries are calculated rather than measured due to the notorious poor performance of those types of batteries when it's really cold, i.e,. they can't really supply those CCAs in practice. To me the Pulse P.10 with the 210 CA rating would not be suitable for the ST.

 

[T_C]

Conversely the Pulse battery above that is rated for 210 CA will only provide about 79% of that, or about 165 CCA. CCA ratings for Lithium batteries are calculated rather than measured due to the notorious poor performance of those types of batteries when it's really cold, i.e,. they can't really supply those CCAs in practice. To me the Pulse P.10 with the 210 CA rating would not be suitable for the ST.

Hmm... measuring the CCA on a battery... and CCA is measured by what the battery can sustain for 30 seconds at 0° F without dropping below 7.2v. Don't ST's start to have issues dropping much below 10v on crank? My ST pulled 125amps when I measured it on start... but it never took 30 seconds. The air may be at 0, but after a minute with some load the internal temperature will rise and then the electrons can flow more freely, and your numbers look better.

Yep, agree, Lithiums don't like cold. Of course mine did spin my motor over at -5° F this recent winter. I upsized the battery at purchase and let it warm itself up a bit before hitting the start button when the alcohol was way down in the bulb.

Then their is the question... how many folks here start their bikes anywhere close to 0° F? The vast majority of bike batteries will never never ever be tested at CCA... or at two, three or even forty times higher then zero.