Handling; cause, effect, symptoms

Ndfrc

Ndfrc

Joined
Dec 17, 2025
Messages
111
Age
68
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Bike
Many
I see a lot of good articles for specific tasks but I can’t find any discussions about general handling performance cause and effect.
Obviously, It’s a combination of elements that affect this, probably most common is tires and TP. But a lot more is in play..
Not counting ride style and surface conditions, there’s suspension, steering components, bearings, preload, the mechanical stuff.

So maybe more a symptom discussion..

My bike starts getting sketchy at 90mph, no confidence to go past 100.
Starts to feel loose, both front and back, like running on rain grooved pavement or a steel bridge gate.

I have just sorted out and performed most maintenance for a shakedown after initial purchase, including the rear shock adjuster which needed it for sure.
When I first got the bike and test drove, it’s got flaky at 80 with no confidence to go ANY faster let alone stay at 80.
After the maintenance, handling was much improved but still marginal.
I can’t afford to put on new tires- just to see, especially if the problem is somewhere else.
It has Avon Spirits on, appears to be fairly new.
Bike has 25k miles. TP is at 40/38, I will try 42/42.
I first set the preload at the standard mark, it was better, turned it in about 6 more clicks and it got better and got me to 90+, I want to try turning in more?

Anyways..
I don’t want a bike that I can’t keep up with bikes of lesser capability.. which right now I have.

Help!
Nd
 
I will try the 42/42 in a little bit..
lower? simple? All ears!!
07- ST1300

Also this is, no way.. an indictment or comparison or lack-of-anything anyone has, relative to speed.
How fast you go, is how fast you go.
All respect! 😇
 
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Rider weight?
rear preload - related to weight. More preload tends to be better in my experience.
Headstock bearings?
topbox?
windshield position?
front wheel installation?
traffic or clear air?
tires? It could be tires if they are old or have been run under inflated.

All kinds of variables can come into play to create the symptoms you describe. For sure it is not "normal" as a rule, these bikes are dead stable well into triple digit speeds.
 
A few practical considerations.

Lower the rear pre-load a bit. If the rear suspension is jacked up too high, it doesn't make the suspension stiffer, it raises the rear of the bike - the idea is to compensate for the additional load.
However, raising the rear tilts the bike forward slightly which has the effect of changing the rake of the front forks - so the front wheel is tucked under the bike more than it was. This makes the steering faster and the bike more twitchy.

Check the damping adjustment. If the bike is boing-boing-boing ing after you have gone over a bump, that really does feel weird - something like a flate tyre feels. Make sure it is adjusted properly.

Check your tyres. The ST1300 is supposed to run on tyres that are made for heavier bikes - so Honda originally specified the 'F' rated BT020s. Since then Bridgestone have introduced the T30, T31 and T32. All of which came in a GT version. They have stiffer sidewall. More recently, the T33 is suitable for all weights of bike, and the ST1300 works well with this (apparently). I nver had the chance to fit them, but they claim to have nearly 50% additional tyre life.

Check your bearings for free play. Tie the handlebars on full lock lift the front up. Grab the wheel top and bottom - see if you can feel any play in the wheel bearings. Better still, if the wheel bearings haven't ever been replaced, they are cheap enough to renew. Use Honda - bearings might have the same inner/outer shell size eg 6204 - but there are other considerations - load rating and another figure that indicates the amount of 'play' that is built into the bearing.
Buying Honda makes sure that you get the correct ones.
When fitting them, make sure that you do it properly - eg note which bearing has to be inserted first (yes it matters, and it is different fro the front and back wheels). Make sure that you insert them so that no side load is placed on the bearing. See the articles section - filter on jfheath - you'll find waht you need to know.

If someone else has changed your bearings - then it is worth while assuming that they may be wrong - in which case the wheels will not be in a straight line with each other. One will be slightly off to one side.

Make sure that the front wheel has been installed correctly. If not, it is possible to have everything tightened up but the front wheel is able to slide slightly back and forth on its axle. Again filter on my posts and watch the animation for the correct tightening ssequence.

Check the rear wheel bearings. There are also two flange bearings which do not last as well as the main wheel bearings.

Remove your top box if you have one - or fit a pillion. The issue is that the air behind you forms an eddy - if you had a flag you could see it - the flag would wafting violently back and forth sideways. That dirty air will be hitting your top box first from the right and then from the left. With a pillions, the air flows straight back and doesn't start eddying until after you have gone.

Lower your screen - see if that is the culprit.

Check your wheel balance.

I know nothing about Avon Spirits - That is the tyre that comes up for the ST1300 on the Avon website. It doesn't mention heavier bikes. 42 / 42 is the recommended pressure for the recommended tyre - although the Avon website say 2.50 bar for the tyre which is only 36/37 psi. I'd get in touch with Avon make sure that is correct for the St1300 and that the tyres are designed for heavier bikes.

The obvious answer is to keep your speed down until you find out what is causing it. What year model is your ST1300 ? Before 2004 there were issues with the bike which seem to have been due to the tightening procedures for engine mount bolts and swinging arm. There is still a sequence to follow but on the later models the correct shim has to be used. It doesn't need to be altered unless other components are changed - eg swing arm bearings.

Others will chime in with things like suspension, triple tee and headstock bearings. I know it they can change thinks but I have no experience.

I'd go for the cheapest options first.
Air is free - blow your tyres up to the correct pressure. That might help !!

The rider.

If the bike is new to you, then you could be the problem. I don't mean that in any mean or spiteful way, I mean that you may not be relaxed with it and - eg your unrelaxed grip on the bars - will be preventing the bike from following its natural line - which you then try to correct. I had the same when I moved from an ST1100 to an ST1300. Dropping the rear preload a tad and riding without topbox for a while if my pillion wasn't on the back cured it. The bike felt very twitchy at first - as if the front wheel was going to buckle underneath me. Stupid, but that's how it felt. A few weeks later, neither of those things mattered. I had got used to it.
 
150 alway solo
No top box, panniers empty.
Preload settings.. no references except the markings on the adjuster, more adj for more weight. Mine is about halfway in, guess you have to just ‘find’ your sweet spot
Headstock bearings- new territory for me, initial, logical steps of pulling this, yanking that, looking for any sort of play or give, seemed fine.
I do position the windshield accordingly as it does affect things.
Front wheel installation? I haven’t taken it off yet, is the implication it’s not mounted right?
Traffic or clear air doesn’t come into play at 100, well, I mean in this case I am talking straight line speed.
But the was a good crosswind yesterday… hmmm.

Thank you John and others for the good advice,
Dually noted and appreciated!

Tires?
Avon Spirit front wear bar seem 50%
Rear looks fine.
Yes this thought started the whole process for me, but before I shell out the money for a new set of tires, that I am not convinced is the issue(while most likely be the fix)


IMG_5449.jpegIMG_5448.jpeg
 
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FWIW, (example of one) I have done 130 mph on the Autobahn in Germany on a ST1300.
It had the Honda Top Box and I had no issues until about 125 mph.
Then if the windshield was up any at all it got a little 'funny'.
 
I think the list of things to check/test is pretty inclusive. I'd maybe mention that you might need to make one change at a time otherwise you won't know which it was that made stuff better.

On a usage standpoint I found my bike starts to act differently (squirrely) at approximately 185-200 km/h (115 to 124) and then sometimes coming back down through that set of speeds. More pronounced when top case is on the bike. Goes away above that speed. Is worse with bad/worn tires. Does not like to stay in the range above (or maybe I just don't like how it feels). Has been consistent on many sets of tires. Could be described as Pan Weave, but never felt like it was so bad as to move to loss of control.
 
Okay, all.. good stuff.. thanks!
So to lower the back, I want to back out the adj more? Not in?
Not to circumvent any of the actions needed so far..
A little deeper dive into the pan weave please…

At first I thought the handling issues that followed
the 02 UK model rollout involving 2 police fatalities and this… weave, was one in the same.

It now appears to be 2 distinct things(thank goodness).
If so.. questions that come to mind..

This characteristic, which can be mitigated to some extent or even don’t introduce at all by speed.
It obviously is not a critical safety issue as it would/should be addressed specifically.
Seems to fall in an idiosyncrasy of the bike? All bikes have them.
And if that’s a yes, when it happens.. and yes I know you can aggravate most anything to failure..
To not notice it anymore, implies that while it’s happening, nothing is really going to go wrong, this is where letting the bike do it’s thing, that’s all it doing, rider not trying to overcompensate.. well that makes sense to me.
I hope what I am saying makes sense 🤔

And it’s starting to sound like it’s more of a zone.. which then would have a start, and a stop.. which means you go even faster- thru the weave?
That last part would be hard to test, the first time 🙏

Ok my brain is weaving and probably making yours too. I do apologize, just trying get my ducks all orderly and crap!
And yes, I do like to go fast.
Also, not interested in how many miles or longevity of a tire(within reason), the way I see it.. at my age I am not worried about how long my tires will last, I am more concerned about how long I will last. So I prioritize performance over tread life.🥹
 
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Pan Weave - I doubt it - that was all cleared up after the court case. Modifications were made to the swing arm pivots bolts and the tightening procedure.

The 'standard' rear pre-load adjustment is 7 click in ie 7 half turns of the knob on the left hand side.

Do it on the centre stand. But wind it out fully first (count the half turns so that you know where it was).
Then start winding it in - count the half turns - until you feel the resistance. Then count 7 half turns.
How many is that. How many was it before ?

The damper is at the bottom of the rear shock - a screwdriver slot which is accessed through a hole in the large right hand footpeg bracket.
Turn it clockwise for fully hard. Turn it anticlockwise for fully soft. Turn it fully clockwise (hard), then turn it back anticlockwise about 1 full turn. There are (apparently) tow punch marks - one ont he screw, one on the outside of the screw - which should align. Couldn't say about that - I've never noticed them ! That is a starting point. Adding more preload will make the front feel more twitchy. Lowering it will reduce it - but there is a set value based on where the bike sits when you are sitting on it. My suggestion will take you slightly below that - but if you go over a bump and the suspension bottoms out, then it is too low.

Just noticed you are at 25K - wheel bearings are not likely to be an issue at that mileage.

Your wheels must have been out at least twice, I would guess, with 25,000 miles on the clock. For my ST1300, that would have been 5 times.
You don't know who did them, and its not sensible to assume that the person who replaced the wheels knew how to do it properly.
So do yourself a favour - do you have a torque wrench ? - slacken the axle nut. Slacken the two pinch bolts on both sides. and then tighten the wheel in the correct order.
Check the position and orientation of the two spacers between the fork legs and the wheel hub too - there's a photo in the link below.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/th...heel-install-and-front-axle-animation.161738/
Other thing re wheels - check that you haven't lost any balance weights.
 
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