Hard braking with pillion

Remontoire

Remontoire

Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
76
Location
Southern Manitoba
Bike
1998 ST 1100
Miracles do happen. My wife is asking to come on rides. We've reviewed some pillion instructional material and had a few stellar rides. Yesterday we took time out of our ride to practise slow manuvers in an empty parking lot and it went brilliantly.I'm thrilled she's adapting so quickly and also happy my skill set seems to be up to the challenge, but frankly, she's making me look good, as usual. :)My only concern is heavy braking. I have read some suggestions, but would love to know what the best practise is for coping with heavy braking and the pillion weight moving forward.Ideas welcome. Ian
 
I have told the wife that if the handles are too difficult under hard braking (as they are not in a great spot as far as leverage goes), she should use my back to help her not slide forward. the only reason I suggest this is because I find when I brake hard, I tend to lock up my arms and use the handlebars to stop me from kissing the tank. I find the extra push not to be a problem... not that it happens often.

Mike
 
When I ride with my wife, it's a whole different kettle of fish. No jack rabbit starts or hammering on the brakes.
When I shift, it's so smooth she's doesn't even notice it. The last thing I want to do is scare her and have her never to ride with me again.
We went out for an 8 hour ride yesterday.
The thing that I keep thinking about is passenger comfort.
I remember playing a computer game years ago, think it was a train simulator, if you did jerky starts or fast braking, you'd get a report at the end of the game stating if the passengers rated you a good conductor/ engineer or you failed at keeping them comfortable.
That's how I think on the bike.
Best of a Luck keeping her comfortable
 
Karen said:
She has pillion handles, she needs to use them!
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IMO are they not ideal... (bears the question if one could actually withhold his weight under a full, heavy braking manoeuvre...)

IMO-II is there no issue with "pillion weight moving forward", since she maintains contact to the rider's back... hands rest comfortably on her knees...
My SO pushes her heels down behind the pegs and presses her knees together during heavy braking, her upper torso is already close/in contact with my back, so there is no sudden "impact"...
That's how its learned and practised during MSL over here... works perfectly, even when hauling the bike down from +60 by hammering on them brakes, front tire chirping at threshold...
The pillions are also advised to be attentive, look ahead, eyes horizontal just like the rider, so their not blind-sided by a sudden braking manoeuvre over something ahead...
Having the pillion at close contact also improves handling and precision in turns...

And I actually can't deal with any other seating position of a pillion, if one thinks she can "lounge" somewhere back there, I instantly bring her forward by blipping the brakes... :twisted:

I suggest subscribing to a safety training with the pillion, see what the instructor suggests and practice that there...
 
Al Gully said:
No jack rabbit starts or hammering on the brakes.
When I shift, it's so smooth she's doesn't even notice it.
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+ 1 on that, with pillion is aggressive, edgy style quite tiring (and annoying) for both... smooth and "analogue" is the key...

Still recall a blind date accusing my ST1100 having automatic transmission... (HUH?! :eek::)
At first I'd no idea what she'd meant, then she told when riding with her EX (AfrikaTwin) she always felt shifting and got bandied on braking... ah-ja... and the dude wondered why she moved on, seriously? ;-)
 
Grab handles.....

If you need to brake in an emergency, locking your arms won't help unless your big and green... your SO's weight will at least double if not more under serious braking...... not to mention another region coming into contact with the tank under the extra weight.... ouch....

Anybody know what the G level is for an ST under full braking?
 
Firstpeke said:
...not to mention another region coming into contact with the tank under the extra weight...
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My knees rest perfectly on the grey infills, HondaLine knee-pads installed... no problems there...

Anybody know what the G level is for an ST under full braking?
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60 to 0 in about 36 meters/118.11ft...
 
Al Gully said:
When I ride with my wife, it's a whole different kettle of fish.
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Agreed. When we ride, my starts are slower and smoother, my open road speed is lower, my following distance greatly increased, and for stops (say a red light or slowed traffic), I begin much sooner.

That's not to say hard stops don't happen ... this happened to us on a "35 mph" city street (4-lane, 2-way, with median) last week.
We're riding at 35mph (in left-hand lane) and a small truck approached a Stop sign on our right (perpendicular to our lane), but didn't stop - I believe he thought he could get across the street before I arrived in the intersection. RWONG. I got on the brakes *very* hard and he finally came to a stop in the right hand lane, so I let off the brakes, then on the gas to get out of the scene.
 
caldercay said:
I believe he thought he could get across the street before I arrived in the intersection.
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I reckon his brain simply didn't process you as approaching vehicle there... they don't see a "car" and just go...

I got on the brakes *very* hard and he finally came to a stop in the right hand lane, so I let off the brakes, then on the gas to get out of the scene.
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Proper reaction, as exercised during MSL... (brake-swerve training with "farm tractor from right!" or "car from left!", they sometimes throw those cones into your path and such... great training through!)
 
I ride alot with my G.F. as pillion. She is a great pillion. She almost always snugs up behind me. I have showed her the handles but she never uses them. when the unexpected happens her thighs clamp my hips to keep her put. I doubt if there is time to grab the handles in a unexpected stop. So unless they are the constant grab point not much use. My only speed experience was a deer she saw first since she is always looking ahead. I grabbed the breaks hard. She didn't move me much and the knees do contact the fairing too. Hope this helps. My biggest concern is the slow speed stuff in parking lots and intersections especially ones on a hill.
 
caldercay said:
We're riding at 35mph (in left-hand lane) and a small truck approached a Stop sign on our right (perpendicular to our lane), but didn't stop - I believe he thought he could get across the street before I arrived in the intersection. RWONG. I got on the brakes *very* hard and he finally came to a stop in the right hand lane, so I let off the brakes, then on the gas to get out of the scene.
Click to expand...
Here is a good video to get others to see us.

SMIDSY
Sorry mate I didn't see you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU
 
Now I don't have an ST, but when I did my knees were well short of the fairing.... so if I had ever been two up and had to do the full military braking tango, I would have needed my pillion to grab those handles....

I did have my oldest daughter on the back of my NT650V a couple of times and once, I had to brake quite hard.... she wasn't holding on and slid right into me and I could only just stop myself going up the tank.... it hurt.... and I only just managed to avoid rear ending the car in front.... it really was hard staying in the seat..

She was suitably re-briefed before another ride......
 
Thanks everyone.Being smooth has been key to my wife's increasing willingness to ride with me. It's been great fun to hone those skills farther.I suppose we're just going to have to get out there and practise some braking manuvers and let the muscle memory carry the day when needed. Taking a full load on my arms when I need them to be articulately counter steering in an emergency isn't very attractive to me.
 
What works for me? Scala headsets with the mic locked open or on. If your pillion is back there daydreaming and you get on the brakes hard with no warning to them, you are going to have to hold back all their weight. With good comm gear I say, STOPPING, and she knows the binders are going on and has half a chance to help brace herself. We were traveling with friends last year. I was leading down a 4 lane at 55+. A four lane with red lights. Light changed and I knew they were not going to get through as they were not following closely. Braked about as hard as I could without skidding a tire. Better "panic" stop than I had ever done at the ERC. She saw the light change but the word stopping let her know what was happening so she could brace herself. The other bikes were all Harleys. The next bike came up next to me and said "Awesome stop! There is no way I could do that on this bike".
 
Firstpeke said:
Now I don't have an ST, but when I did my knees were well short of the fairing.... so if I had ever been two up and had to do the full military braking tango, I would have needed my pillion to grab those handles....

I did have my oldest daughter on the back of my NT650V a couple of times and once, I had to brake quite hard.... she wasn't holding on and slid right into me and I could only just stop myself going up the tank.... it hurt.... and I only just managed to avoid rear ending the car in front.... it really was hard staying in the seat..

She was suitably re-briefed before another ride......
Click to expand...

I am a little leggy so my knees almost touch all the time.
 
schlep1967 said:
What works for me? Scala headsets with the mic locked open or on. If your pillion is back there daydreaming and you get on the brakes hard with no warning to them, you are going to have to hold back all their weight. With good comm gear I say, STOPPING, and she knows the binders are going on and has half a chance to help brace herself. We were traveling with friends last year. I was leading down a 4 lane at 55+. A four lane with red lights. Light changed and I knew they were not going to get through as they were not following closely. Braked about as hard as I could without skidding a tire. Better "panic" stop than I had ever done at the ERC. She saw the light change but the word stopping let her know what was happening so she could brace herself. The other bikes were all Harleys. The next bike came up next to me and said "Awesome stop! There is no way I could do that on this bike".
Click to expand...

I do talk to my pillion alot. I try to tell her about upcoming turns when getting ready to pass and stop. It really helps.
 
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