Help converting a close relative...?

Rob Hephner expressed what I was going to say when I read your first post.

There is no way you can force your brother to wear a helmet. You can however express your love and concern for him. Perhaps also some scientific data like pictures and reasoning in physics.
Mostly the former and perhaps the latter could convince him to change his preference.
 
C'mon people. Yes, it's his choice, but that doesn't mean the OP shouldn't try to change his mind. If you love someone, you try to keep them from making stupid choices, don't you?

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of good ideas. If you search the web you should be able to find some pics of serious helmet damage. You can show him those and ask him what his head would look like. There ought to be some statistics available if you do some research.

You could also try asking him WHY he doesn't want to wear a helmet. If it's comfort, take him shopping and find one that fits. Just because the helmet you gave him fit you okay, doesn't mean it will fit him. Comfort is very important, and there are lots of different head shapes.

In the end, there may be nothing you can do but ask him to pre-arrange his funeral arrangements. (That statement alone might have some impact.)
 
If he threatens to move to FL so he don't have to wear a helmet, I have a feeling it'll be a very hard sell. Being an ATGATT rider, I can't for the life of me understand where people are coming from when they refuse to wear protective gear. I know it's a personal choice, but it still don't make any sense to me. So I really don't know what to tell you, other than keep at it, without getting into an argument with him when you bring it up.
Some people go to great lengths to make sure they look "cool". :biker:
 
Mellow said:
It's his choice... he's old enough to understand the ramifications of not wearing one.

You may not agree with his choice, I don't.... but, it's his to make... just like getting on a bike....which many don't understand.
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A huge :plus1: .........I've had the opportunity to ride with helmets and without......I made the decision that I prefer to wear one......but that was my decision to make.......

......you've explained the pro's and con's, he listened, he's made his choice......I would recommend dropping the subject before it accidentally becomes a hurdle in your relationship. When it becomes a hurdle, not only can it affect you two on a personal level but, he may be less likely to ask for or listen to your opinion on all things motorcycle in the future......including the helmet subject. While some members have suggested continuing to harp on him about the helmet thing, if you're not careful he may decide he would prefer not to ride with you as a result of not wanting to be harrassed. And if he's off riding by himself, you've lost the opportunity to influence him. Just lead by example until the opportunity arrives.
 
Seriously, if statistics, gory photos, bad examples, good examples or mental images of a gruesome end actually meant anything, every single one of us would hang up the MC keys and never touch them again... The truth is, riding a motorcycle is dangerous, period. The other truth is we all do this because we have a love of riding and (hopefully) we all understand the dangers associated with riding and consider them an acceptable risk. Sure good gear can help a great deal and even save a life in certain circumstances, but there's still a fair amount of risk involved and I take some offense to anyone calling the choice to ride without a helmet a 'stupid' one.

This has always been my biggest gripe about folks that preach ATGATT; for some reason they don't ever seem to start out with 'don't ride a motorcycle, it's too dangerous', which is the only truly honest way to start any discussion on motorcycle safety as well as the only 'safe' point of view, in my opinion. I liken ATGATT arguments to arguing about how much better off you are smoking light cigarettes over regulars and, like it or not, it's closer to the truth than not.

I believe that everyone should do what they feel is best for them. I choose to wear some gear all of the time and all the gear some of the time. Some folks are comfortable with more and that's great, but I'm not going to discount or belittle any adult who makes the decision to wear less. I do feel strongly about people getting a motorcycle education before operating a MC and certainly having some adult life behind them before they make any choices about how much, or little, they will choose to wear when riding. Ultimately though, it is their choice and if they understand the risks involved in riding and they choose not to wear something, then there is little anyone else should feel compelled to do.
 
I agree that it is a choice. Tell him he can make a choice. If he wants to ride with you he has to wear a helmet. If he doesn't make the right choice, don't ride with him.
I personally couldn't stand to see my brother killed if he got in a wreck. Use that in your speech to him. My brother bought a Fat Boy and got a shorty helmet but has seen the light and is getting a full face.
I also have a friend who used to ride in short sleeves. I gave him a mesh armored jacket and he now uses it.
 
jahoobob said:
.....Tell him he can make a choice. If he wants to ride with you he has to wear a helmet. If he doesn't make the right choice, don't ride with him............
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This is one of those statements that looks great on paper and in thought, (and may have worked in some cases) but has a very huge risk to it too. You have to be willing to go through with the threat. And what if the brother decides he still doesn't want to wear a helmet? If you stick to that threat, not only have you've lost the opportunity to gently open his mind to the idea of ATGATT over time, but you completely eliminate all the potential good times of enjoying those brotherly type rides together.
 
SoloTotoCoyote said:
This is one of those statements that looks great on paper and in thought, (and may have worked in some cases) but has a very huge risk to it too. You have to be willing to go through with the threat. And what if the brother decides he still doesn't want to wear a helmet? If you stick to that threat, not only have you've lost the opportunity to gently open his mind to the idea of ATGATT over time, but you completely eliminate all the potential good times of enjoying those brotherly type rides together.
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Actually I don't even think it looks all that good on paper! I would equate it to someone telling me that they couldn't be my friend because I rode a motorcycle and they disapprove of that choice. Basically it's saying that if someone doesn't do things the way you think they should be done, you are going to ostracize them because of it.

Otherwise I totally agree with your post, all good points! You certainly can't illustrate the virtues of wearing the gear if you refuse to ride with them and you are opening yourself up to resentment and losing out on many potential good memories as well.
 
I agree with Tor, if he's gonna move just because of a helmet law it sounds like you might be wasting your breath. Maybe you should invite him on a lot of high speed slab runs like an Ironbutt ride or ask him to go ride when it's raining & cold or even better , invite him to Moonshine! After taking a beating from the elements, he may see the light?
 
Mellow said:
It's his choice... he's old enough to understand the ramifications of not wearing one.

You may not agree with his choice, I don't.... but, it's his to make... just like getting on a bike at all which many don't understand.
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I agree with Mellow, if he doesn't want to wear a helmet, that's his choice. Hopefully, he'll ride safely and be lucky enough to not become a statistic.
 
He took the MSF Basic Rider Course, right?

If so, the Rider Coaches should have exposed him to the facts, and given him the ability to assess the facts and make decisions based on the level of risk HE is willing to accept.

If he is advised of the risks he's taking, it's really HIS business as an informed adult to make his own gear decisions.

In your opinion, and probably in my opinion, he may be making the wrong decision, but that is really, quite frankly, none of your business (or mine). As long as he is making an informed decision, that's really only his business and his decision to make.

Wish him well and safe riding, and don't volunteer to be a co-signer for his medical treatments. :p:

And don't ride with him unless you're willing to face heartache and tragedy. :rolleyes:
 
SoloTotoCoyote said:
This is one of those statements that looks great on paper and in thought, (and may have worked in some cases) but has a very huge risk to it too. You have to be willing to go through with the threat. And what if the brother decides he still doesn't want to wear a helmet? If you stick to that threat, not only have you've lost the opportunity to gently open his mind to the idea of ATGATT over time, but you completely eliminate all the potential good times of enjoying those brotherly type rides together.
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That goes without saying. You've got to follow through. My point is that I would follow through with this "threat" 'cause I wouldn't want to see my brother smeared across the pavement plain and simple.
 
jahoobob said:
My point is that I would follow through with this "threat" 'cause I wouldn't want to see my brother smeared across the pavement plain and simple.
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Bingo. And the constant thought of it happening is going to be enough of a distraction that it will reduce the enjoyment you get out of riding with him and may also detract from your riding enough that it causes hazards for you.

Bring a spatula.

--Mark
 
Ok so I am going to toss out my obsevations on this subject.Helmets and gear both.

Peer pressure is a real *****!!!But it works.
There are a number of people I ride with that in the past dont wear the gear.But as we ride together more and more I see them starting to make the change.The guys that do wear the gear are always talking about what the love about each item.Mesh gear is a great example.
We seen a few days this year at over 100.Well for the few of us that had mesh gear we were getting all the benifits from it.The guys that did not have the gear were hurting.Bugs,rocks and just the heat in general.Now for all who have the mesh gear you know that it blocks enough air that what does get thru really does cool you down.
Well within the next couple rides the guys that did not have the gear had gone out simply because of the comfort part.
It is my good example for peer pressure.

Here in Oregon we have to wear a helmet so we dont have to deal with that issue.

For your brother it might not be all that bad of an idea to get him close to you and your riding buddies.He will convert:)

Or as others have posted a long ride will change his mind.The first big hopper that whacks him in the bare cheek and gives him a black eye will seal the deal.

Just my thoughts and observations.

Its his choice by all means and it might just be he is stubborn and does not like to be told what he should be doing.We all fight something this might just be his.

Sean:biker:
 
To fill in some of the blanks....my brother has had no professional level training for motorcycle riding, MSF or otherwise.

That's part of his problem--imagine a 60+ year old guy who truly thinks he needs no real training ("I know how to ride")--or protection from riding gear or apparel.

I really loathe the idea of riding with him, partly because my biggest fear is to be out on a ride with him (in good conditions, or bad) and then suddenly (mainly because of the above) having to watch him die.

On top of all this, there are family members (mainly his wife) who would then blame me for his death ("I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts").....since I otherwise "encouraged" this sort of activity to begin with....:(
 
CoaSTrider said:
To fill in some of the blanks....my brother has had no professional level training for motorcycle riding, MSF or otherwise.

That's part of his problem--imagine a 60+ year old guy who truly thinks he needs no real training ("I know how to ride")--or protection from riding gear or apparel.

I really loathe the idea of riding with him, partly because my biggest fear is to be out on a ride with him (in good conditions, or bad) and then suddenly (mainly because of the above) having to watch him die.

On top of all this, there are family members (mainly his wife) who would then blame me for his death ("I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts").....since I otherwise "encouraged" this sort of activity to begin with....:(
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Whether it be Christmas or an upcoming birthday, buy him AND YOU enrollment to an MSF course. Make it brotherly thing to do together. No strings or warnings. Just something that you want to do together.
 
Here in Arizona helmet is optional. I choose to always wear the helmet because I can enjoy the ride more. I can relax; watch the scenery without worrying about bugs and things like that. I can hear and see better, over all it is just a better experience. For me, riding is all about fun and enjoyment, and wearing helmet is a big plus in the whole experience. Even when is a blast furnace hot, having helmet gives me protection from heat. My helmet is in the office, nice and cool, when I leave office to go home, usually around three, heat is on, I put my cool helmet on, and I am home by the time it gets hot in it. I hate to thing how it would be without it, having 110-115 F. air frying my face. I would stress to your brother benefits of helmet from the riding side, not from crash side. That may happen but not (hopefully) ever, but benefits on the day to day rides are what counts immediately.

That is my :tc1: and I am sticking to it.

:rd11: :pf1:
 
I have a neon orange modular in xl that I bought as I fill-in item to get free shipping and it is too big for me (don't know the brand or model). Never been worn and has a slight scuff mark from dropping it as I unpacked it. It's yours free for the cost to ship it to him - maybe $15 or so. Hate to see it sitting on my shelf. PM me if you are interested.
 
The world is a dangerous place, no matter what you do. Enjoy loved ones while you can, nobody is here forever. Try to tell him, but he's a big boy and is capable of making his own decisions... it's all you can do.

sbB
 
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