Honda GN4 Conventional has Moly

I preface the below by stating that I am not a particularly big fan of Honda motorcycle oil, so I'm not trying to change anyone's mind because I am not enamored with them either.

Applicable to all oils, not just Honda oil, whether an oil is manufactured in-house or is a rebrand of another manufacturers product has no bearing on whether or not it is granted certification by the API and is not the reason why Honda oil does not have the API donut. There are countless rebranded oils on the market that are API certified as evidence to this.

I have no idea whatsoever how often Honda changes oil suppliers, but based on my experience with large companies I would find it surprising if Honda changes oil suppliers very often at all let alone every few months. I would be surprised to find that out from any large company not just Honda. It strikes me that it simply would be way to ineffective, to costly, and to administratively burdensome to do that on an ongoing basis every few months for it to make sense from a business standpoint, and we all know that if it costs money it isn't making money and that is all large companies seem to care about nowadays.
 
2turbos said:
Honda oil is likely made by a Japanese oil company called Idemitsu.
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Yes. Idemitsu is Honda Motor Co’s oldest trading partner, going back about 75 years. They are building a North American supply chain including a blending facility in IL to replace ConocoPhillips.
 
There are different types of moly. MoS2 which is not wet clutch safe and MoTDC which is. There are many high performance JASO MA/MA2 motorcycle oils which contain high amounts MoTDC, moly.IMG_3913.jpegIMG_3914.jpeg
 
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dduelin said:
Yes. Idemitsu is Honda Motor Co’s oldest trading partner, going back about 75 years. They are building a North American supply chain including a blending facility in IL to replace ConocoPhillips.
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It was quite a few years ago when I first looked up who was the North American motorcycle engine oil supplier to Honda, and several times since, and ConocoPhillips always seemed to be the most likely candidate so it appears that they have had a long-term relationship.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
It was quite a few years ago when I first looked up who was the North American motorcycle engine oil supplier to Honda, and several times since, and ConocoPhillips always seemed to be the most likely candidate so it appears that they have had a long-term relationship.
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When I ordered oil for the dealership in 2018 the order for oil went to the ConocoPhillips website and the products came from a Shell distributor’s warehouse nearby. Occasionally I drove our truck over there for will call pickups. In the warehouse I saw Shell products like Rotella, Honda branded products like GN4 and other Honda Pro Chemical products, and Idemitsu branded oils. Supply chains are complicated.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
so it appears that they have had a long-term relationship.
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That's usually the case with automotive suppliers (I worked for a long time in automotive and dealt with the supply base of various GM programs), as already mentioned in here it's an efficiency and administrative issue (to resource something) as there's an "approved supplier list" that is used over and over for legacy (service) and new programs. But I digress ...

Happy Sunday everybody!!!
 
draser said:
That's usually the case with automotive suppliers (I worked for a long time in automotive and dealt with the supply base of various GM programs), as already mentioned in here it's an efficiency and administrative issue (to resource something) as there's an "approved supplier list" that is used over and over for legacy (service) and new programs. But I digress ...

Happy Sunday everybody!!!
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Ditto dude... I'm an automotive engineer by trade....
 
Honda oil has small amounts of moly and their reasoning is the anti-wear benefits outweigh the clutch issues that shouldn't happen in small amounts. Some of those CBRs red line at 14,000 rpms And those engines are pretty bullet proof.
 
dwalby said:
if the moly content of GN4 concerns you, there are alternatives available without moly, like Honda HP4, Motul, and others. In the motorcycle oil world GN4 has never been a high performer, so letting it go isn't a bad thing.
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How do we know this? 58 ppm is not a whole lot. Unless we know the source, and if they are deliberately meeting a not to exceed specification for the oil, this could be a contamination that still meets Honda's specs.

Has that Lube Watch analyzed any other 'moly free' oil?
 
The lab work was done at Polaris Labs in Indianapolis. I don't know if they have data on other 'moly free' engine oils. I may submit other moly free prospects and will share the data if I do.
 
Terry500 said:
The lab work was done at Polaris Labs in Indianapolis. I don't know if they have data on other 'moly free' engine oils. I may submit other moly free prospects and will share the data if I do.
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Moly free is irrelevant. It just requires the right type or moly for wet clutch applications. Which is exactly what is used in oils that meet JASO MA/MA2 specifications.
 
This moly clutch problem myth with JASO MA/MA2 type oils needs to end. How many times does it have to be stated that what matters is the type of moly used and not the quantity that matters.

It’s starting to look like someone has an agenda because this whole subject is BS.
 
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Again if the oil is spec to the manufacturer you are good to go no matter the concoction. BMW oil use to be made by Castrol then Shell now who knows? And their engines ain't blowing up. Again my old Toyota has had no synthetic oil in it till they phased out the 5W 30 conventional oil. Car had 225K when I made the switch. I was amused when people told me conventional oil was no good use synthetic. So today I use semi synthetic. My point is use whatever oil the manufacturer permits.
 
Ahhhhh, silly me. I did not realize we were talking about molybdenum dialkyl dithiocarbamate (MoDTC) and not molybdenum disulfide. Makes all the difference in the world oil.
 
SMSW said:
How do we know this? 58 ppm is not a whole lot. Unless we know the source, and if they are deliberately meeting a not to exceed specification for the oil, this could be a contamination that still meets Honda's specs.

Has that Lube Watch analyzed any other 'moly free' oil?
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If you're asking how do we know that other oils are moly free, its in Honda's product description. as far as how much moly is too much, I don't think any of us know. So, let the debate continue ad nauseum about something that none of us are qualified to speak about anyway.
 
Oil threads are bizarre. They exist on aviation boards, diesel truck and car boards, gas vehicle boards, ATV boards, boat boards, etc. etc. Its really wild how much energy is expended in these discussions. I cannot recall, ever, any engine "exploding" or meeting some untoward fate from using an oil that meets the specification. Or is said to meet the specification. Or even just come close. Meanwhile the rest of the vehicle(s) has "returned to the earth" or degraded to junk long before the engines actually wear out. Probably should just go ride.....
 
Any oil of the correct grade which meets JASO MA/MA2 specifications will be fine. Because oils that meet those specifications and contain “moly” use MoTDC which is wet clutch safe.
 
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