Honda ST1300 Speed Wobbles / Weaving?

[Larry Fine]

Ralph Nader and the Corvair.

 

[Savago]

I would rather go with the ST1300 or a FJR1300, but not the Concours 14. It is said to be not flickable and running too hot (specially first 2 production years).

A nice video comparing the bikes (conclusions start at 7m03s):

 

[jamalc6996]

I've never experienced much weave with my 2006 ST1300. I've driven probably 15,000 miles on it and I've hit roughly a 135 mph.

 

[Pelagic]

We've been reading about "Pan Weave" since I first bought my ST in 2004 and please, don't let it figure into your decision, it's really a non-event for most riders and most situations.
I was curious, having never in +100,000 miles of riding experienced it, so one time when I was out in Nevada north of Vegas, ET Highway more specifically, I wicked it up. Now I'm traveling with a touring load and a Hondaline top box, good tires, OEM suspension (since replaced), a well-maintained bike. The bike was rock-solid up past 125mph in calm winds. As I pushed her up towards 130 the handlebars started to shake a little. It was quite odd. Sometimes I see a similar action when I ride no-hands at low speed but it disappears when I grab the bars again, and I don't feel it. But when it started at speed, holding the bars didn't impact the motion. And I felt it.
The wobble was directly proportional to speed, the faster I went, the more vigorously they oscillated. The bike still felt stable but it was unnerving enough that I ended my experiment at about 137mph. I repeated it a few times after that, same day/road/location (there's a lot of room out there) to confirm my observations and consider road surface as a potential input BUT ... at NO TIME did I feel like the bike was out of control. All I had to do was slow back down.
Any speed less than say, 125mph isn't a problem so, buy your ST1300 and enjoy it without worry.
Cheers!

 

[Al st1100]

We've been reading about "Pan Weave" since I first bought my ST in 2004 and please, don't let it figure into your decision, it's really a non-event for most riders and most situations.
I was curious, having never in +100,000 miles of riding experienced it, so one time when I was out in Nevada north of Vegas, ET Highway more specifically, I wicked it up. Now I'm traveling with a touring load and a Hondaline top box, good tires, OEM suspension (since replaced), a well-maintained bike. The bike was rock-solid up past 125mph in calm winds. As I pushed her up towards 130 the handlebars started to shake a little. It was quite odd. Sometimes I see a similar action when I ride no-hands at low speed but it disappears when I grab the bars again, and I don't feel it. But when it started at speed, holding the bars didn't impact it.
The wobble was directly proportional to speed, the faster I went, the more vigorously they oscillated. The bike still felt stable but it was unnerving enough that I ended my experiment at about 137mph. I repeated it a few times after that, same day/road/location (there's a lot of room out there) to confirm my observations and consider road surface as a potential input BUT ... at NO TIME did I feel like the bike was out of control. All I had to do was slow back down.
Any speed less than say, 125mph isn't a problem so, buy your ST1300 and enjoy it without worry.
Cheers!

we need to find a way to differentiate a weave from a tire balancing issue. Years ago I had a bike that only intermittently had a weave at above 110 mph. If your bike does it every time at a certain speed I think the balancing need to be checked first. The pan weave is not exact. When the Honda engineers looked at the problem they did not come up with a definite answer ( to the best of my knowledge ) like a recall.

 

[Larry Fine]

I've posted a few times that I believe steering geometry has something to do with the wobble. In theory at least, all ST1300s are built the same, but not every rider experiences the issue, as suspension adjustments vary.

I suggest as an experiment to lower the rear suspension an appreciable amount, and keep track of how much to return it, without making any other changes, and see whether it makes any difference in stability. I'm betting it will.

 

[ad.hom]

I can make my '02 1300 weave, but as others have said, it's a combination of speed, screen setting and weight distribution.

Other than me trying to provoke it, I've had no issue with handling. The high sided semi's (trucks) on a highway (motorway) does take a little getting used to, but that's not a problem.

 

[fnmag]

We've been reading about "Pan Weave" since I first bought my ST in 2004 and please, don't let it figure into your decision, it's really a non-event for most riders and most situations.
I was curious, having never in +100,000 miles of riding experienced it, so one time when I was out in Nevada north of Vegas, ET Highway more specifically, I wicked it up. Now I'm traveling with a touring load and a Hondaline top box, good tires, OEM suspension (since replaced), a well-maintained bike. The bike was rock-solid up past 125mph in calm winds. As I pushed her up towards 130 the handlebars started to shake a little. It was quite odd. Sometimes I see a similar action when I ride no-hands at low speed but it disappears when I grab the bars again, and I don't feel it. But when it started at speed, holding the bars didn't impact it.
The wobble was directly proportional to speed, the faster I went, the more vigorously they oscillated. The bike still felt stable but it was unnerving enough that I ended my experiment at about 137mph. I repeated it a few times after that, same day/road/location (there's a lot of room out there) to confirm my observations and consider road surface as a potential input BUT ... at NO TIME did I feel like the bike was out of control. All I had to do was slow back down.
Any speed less than say, 125mph isn't a problem so, buy your ST1300 and enjoy it without worry.
Cheers!

I, like many here, only notice a problem at about 125mph indicated.
Simply slow down and problem goes away.

 

[cjames431]

I have 84kish on the odometer. 3yrs ago I rode down to Texas with both panniers and trunk fully loaded and a 90l bag across the pillion. Upon crossing the state line the speed limit increased to 80mph and I increased to over a 100mph with no issues. There have been occasions where (on a closed course ) I have exceeded 140mph with no issue.
I do notice a shimmy in the bars with no hands at low speed that immediately goes away with hands on. When passing semis I do move to the far side of the lane away from the trucker and then merge back to the near side as I pass the front of the truck.
I know that in Washington the motor patrol officers who ride STs are not to exceed 115 and are governed to 125 iirc.
I would not hesitate to purchase another ST1300 if I received the kitchen pass for a second or if in need of a replacement to the current.

 

[Mistergemas]

I've read, in an article about the ST1300, a tips from a policeman from Isle of Man how to avoid the tendency of wobbling/ weaving by rising the air pressure about 30% in the rear tyre according to the reccomended.

 

[Superdirk]

Well, my 2003 has a consistent weave starting 100mph which I regularly try to ride... Bought it new and is has always been there. Now I live in Germany where those speeds are the norm, it is really starting to bug me...
I have tried different things, recently upgraded the suspension front & rear, changed head stem bearing, but nothing seems to improve it.
Maybe my next winter project should be to find the root cause..

But Even so, I think this is a minor issue that should not keep anyone from buying or thoroughly enjoying the ST1300. She is still the 2nd love of my life ;-)

 

[TourNut]

I have never experienced it on my '07 , but then I haven't been up in the stupid speeds either … trying to avoid tickets , fines , points & higher insurance.

 

[Larry Fine]

I have tried different things, recently upgraded the suspension front & rear, changed head stem bearing, but nothing seems to improve it.

If you don't mind, try my suggestion and let us know whether it makes any difference.

If I'm right, new suspension parts won't matter if the steering geometry stays the same.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to stop suggesting it. I can't try it myself because I have an 1100.

 

[dduelin]

I've posted a few times that I believe steering geometry has something to do with the wobble. In theory at least, all ST1300s are built the same, but not every rider experiences the issue, as suspension adjustments vary.

I suggest as an experiment to lower the rear suspension an appreciable amount, and keep track of how much to return it, without making any other changes, and see whether it makes any difference in stability. I'm betting it will.

It won't.

It's counterintuitive but riding at speed with minimum or minimal preload, lowering the rear, makes the bike more likely to weave. This is based on my 180,000 mile experience with the ST1300 and of adjusting and tuning suspension on that bike and a variety of bikes. The stock ST1300 is undersprung and overdamped for the average American rider and riding the bike with minimum or minimal preload causes the bike to bounce off the lower bump stop further destabilizing the chassis.

 

[tmoldovan]

I have had the weave, usually behind semis and around 100 mph. However, since fixing my preload adjuster I have not felt it. I’ve only ridden it twice since then though, so it’s too early to tell, but have found myself in same spots where it used to wobble, but it didn’t.
Slowing down in traffic (always a good idea), and lowering the windshield help greatly.

 

[Larry Fine]

It won't.

It's counterintuitive but riding at speed with minimum or minimal preload, lowering the rear, makes the bike more likely to weave.

That is counter-intuitive. Race bikes have more-vertical forks, and corner well but are twitchy.

Cruisers and choppers have less-vertical forks and are straight-line stable, but corner poorly.

The twitchier bike should have the more-vertical forks, which you get when you raise the rear.


As for my experience, when I first got my 1100, the handling was terrible, especially compared to my '96 Nighthawk 750, which has full hard luggage and a Windjammer on it. When I applied counter-steering torque, the ST firmly resisted leaning, and there was no control confidence. And for reference, the ST has a Traxxion Dynamic fork and a Progressive rear shock/spring.

So, I raised the rear spring locknuts about 1/2" on the shock body, which probably translates to 3/4" at the axle. The transformation was immediate and profound. Not too long after, I had the tires replaced, and when I picked up the bike, it was so twitchy at low speed, I thought I would have to lower the rear some. Fortunately, I got used to it before I got home, and left it.

The ST is easily as nimble as the NH, if not more so, and exhibits the weight-disappearing-at-speed characteristics we talk about. The handling is confidence-inspiring, and it lays over and comes back up with complete control. I have no trouble touching my toes when I want to lean it that far over, and could scrape parts if I really wanted to, but I prefer not going that far.

 

[Larry Fine]

However, since fixing my preload adjuster I have not felt it. I’ve only ridden it twice since then though, so it’s too early to tell, but have found myself in same spots where it used to wobble, but it didn’t.

Would you say that the rear of the bike is higher now than before the repair?

 

[Shawn K]

That is counter-intuitive. Race bikes have more-vertical forks, and corner well but are twitchy.

Cruisers and choppers have less-vertical forks and are straight-line stable, but corner poorly.

The twitchier bike should have the more-vertical forks, which you get when you raise the rear.

In a vacuum, you may be correct. But motorcycle dynamics are far more complicated than that.

"Stability" is affected by far more than just fork angle. Rake and trail are important (trail is arguably the more critical of the two for overall "stability", but is closely... yet not exclusively... related to rake), but above and beyond that there are larger issues of harmonic resonance, free play in various components, and lateral/torsional rigidity characteristics that come into play.

Additionally, "stability" can mean different things in different situations. For example, "cornering stability" can refer to a bike's ability to remain in a turn with minimal input, but the traits that cause that can make a bike resistant to initiate a turn (think old bevel drive Ducatis). "Stability under braking" is more about being able to brake hard without the rear end snapping around or the front end tucking, yet the bike can still dive into a turn quickly. In most cases, people who use the word "stability" are often referring to whether or not a bike does anything unexpected.

The long and short of it is, motorcycle stability is waaaay more complicated than rear ride height or fork angle.

And there are plenty of old-school choppers that would tuck the front end in a skinny minute if you let go of the bars. Just because the fork angle is steep, that doesn't guarantee that the bike will stay upright.

 

[tmoldovan]

Would you say that the rear of the bike is higher now than before the repair?

I can’t tell for certain, but I think it was “bottomed out” before, and should be higher now with proper fluid.

 

[dduelin]

I have had the weave, usually behind semis and around 100 mph. However, since fixing my preload adjuster I have not felt it. I’ve only ridden it twice since then though, so it’s too early to tell, but have found myself in same spots where it used to wobble, but it didn’t.
Slowing down in traffic (always a good idea), and lowering the windshield help greatly.

Refilling the preload adjuster gave you back the ability to raise the ride height of the rear shock. Whatever the ride height was before it is now higher for the same amount of CCW turns of the adjuster wheel.