Its been pumping through the oil passages of my bike for some 21 years so yep I gonna keep using it.
HP4M - will it cause a problem?
- Thread starter STeveMcD
- Start date
I read an article years ago on a study of oils for motorcycles. May oils were studied including motorcycle oils, non-motorcycle oils, dino, synthetic mix and synthetic oils. As expected the synthetics came out on top (mostly). The unexpected result, for me, was that the Honda branded GN4 was very close to the bottom as "worse" oils. The fact that many 1100s and probably 1300s consistently operate uneventfully with it only shows how well the motors were designed and built.
I don't recall any report of an 1100 motor failure due to the brand, weight, type etc. of the oil used. Honda says change it at 8K miles. Most guys change it sooner.
My take on oils, for the 1100, is you could run Yak fat if you figure out how to keep it from congealing in the sump.
I don't recall any report of an 1100 motor failure due to the brand, weight, type etc. of the oil used. Honda says change it at 8K miles. Most guys change it sooner.
My take on oils, for the 1100, is you could run Yak fat if you figure out how to keep it from congealing in the sump.
OP
OP
Oil Threads…
How is this still going?
How is this still going?
Nothing wrong with it, and your ST will run forever on just about anything, it’s just that there are better oils out there as verified by UOA’s, that don’t have the price market up.
Do you need better? Probably not.
I’ve had more than a few bikes with over 300,000 miles on them running diesel oil, and as some will point out, they don’t meet any of Honda’s requirements and shouldn’t be used.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
The first two comments express a distinct lack of confidence in the claims made by Honda and Shell that their oils meet the standards that they are claiming to meet, specifically because they do not have the appropriate certifications to support the claims that they are making.
I support this position. If they wish to make claim to standards that exist, support that claim with a valid certification. Without the certification, it is just marketing.
The third comment appears to offer acceptance that the Valvoline oil meets a standard that it is not certified for either. This acceptance is because of a phone call where this claim was repeated by Valvoline, not because Valvoline offered proof of the appropriate certification. This seems no different than the Honda and Shell claims above.
If the lack of trust in the claims made by Honda and Shell are justified because they do not have the appropriate certifications to support their claims, it follows that the same lack of trust should extend to claims made by Valvoline as well when they also lack the appropriate certification to support their claim.
This seems contradictory.
I don't see the difference between the unsupported claims made by Valvoline and the unsupported claims made by Honda and Shell, or any of the other producers for that matter.
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The point here is that Shell's or Valvolene's labels no longer state the oil meets or exceeds API ratings for gasoline engine use. They have dropped the reference to spark engine use completely. It's true. You can argue it doesn't matter all you want and not change that fact.
Honda doesn't sell diesels and doesn't have to market oils that are now stripped of the high parts per million of zinc and phosphate that diesel oils prior to the latest API CK-4 used to contain. That's fact and you can argue all you want that it doesn't matter but it doesn't change that fact.
My contribution to these threads is not really "what's a good oil for the ST?" People are free to use whatever oil they prefer but one cannot state a particular oil meets Honda's recommendations when it doesn't. Everyone is free to believe that those recommendations in owners and service manuals don't matter and use the oil they want to use.
OP
OP
You started it.
Upt'North.
I asked a specific question about potential problems with a single type of oil.
I should’ve known better…
Sadlsor
Site Supporter
The point here is that this is a motorcycle forum. The forum's Terms and Conditions do not state that oil threads are prohibited. In the history of motorcycle groups on the internet, there have always been oil threads, to the amusement and entertainment of some, and to the frustration and resentment of others. It's true. You can argue it doesn't matter or you don't like to read them all you want and not change that fact.
Honda doesn't sell cookware and doesn't have to market oils that are now stripped of the high fat and cholesterol and parts per million of polyunsaturates and MSG's that vegetable oils prior to the latest health food craze used to contain. That's fact and you can argue all you want that it doesn't matter but it doesn't change that fact.
My contribution to these threads is not really "what's a good oil for making pasta or pancakes?" People are free to use whatever oil they prefer but one cannot state a particular oil meets the FDA's or the American Heart Association's recommendations when it doesn't. Everyone is free to believe that those recommendations in cookbooks and food magazines don't matter and use the oil they want to use.
There you have it, a different twist on an oil thread, brought to you by @Sadlsor , with the unintended assistance of Dave.
Honda doesn't sell cookware and doesn't have to market oils that are now stripped of the high fat and cholesterol and parts per million of polyunsaturates and MSG's that vegetable oils prior to the latest health food craze used to contain. That's fact and you can argue all you want that it doesn't matter but it doesn't change that fact.
My contribution to these threads is not really "what's a good oil for making pasta or pancakes?" People are free to use whatever oil they prefer but one cannot state a particular oil meets the FDA's or the American Heart Association's recommendations when it doesn't. Everyone is free to believe that those recommendations in cookbooks and food magazines don't matter and use the oil they want to use.
There you have it, a different twist on an oil thread, brought to you by @Sadlsor , with the unintended assistance of Dave.
Yep oil is a funny thing indeed. My old 2005 Corolla has 228,579 miles on it all with Pennzoil yellow bottle non synthetic oil. And you are correct there are better oils out there as in full synthetic. But my thing is why change something that has been working all these miles. Even the lowly GN4 has fulfilled it's purpose. Yep I grant you there are better motorcycle oils out there but here again my vehicles just love the oil's i'm putting in them. Then consider this I don't have any evidence just a hunch but I bet some of those 500K mile Goldwing engines got that mileage out of dealer supplied Honda GN4 oilsNothing wrong with it, and your ST will run forever on just about anything, it’s just that there are better oils out there as verified by UOA’s, that don’t have the price market up.
Do you need better? Probably not.
I’ve had more than a few bikes with over 300,000 miles on them running diesel oil, and as some will point out, they don’t meet any of Honda’s requirements and shouldn’t be used.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I understood your point Dave, you may have missed mine. I agree that the standards that are called for and the certifications that confirm that they are being met are my only means of verifying oil compatibility, which is why I use them. I have often responded to these threads by advising a requestor of what the standards are that need to be met according to Honda. I did not state what I consider is a good oil for others to use, their bike, their choice. I also agree that people can ignore the manufacturer's recommendations and the certification protocols that are in place and use what they like, its their bike, their choice. As an example, I have often stated that the lack of the energy/resource conserving statement on a label no longer means anything. The labeling standards have changed. The oil can be full of the friction modifiers that are harmful to a wet clutch. The only verifiable guarantee of wet clutch compatibility now is the JASO MA certification. That does not mean that there are not other oils that are safe for wet clutch use. There most certainly are. What it does mean is that the only way for a consumer to verify which oils have been tested and confirmed to be wet clutch safe is by the JASO MA certification.
What I was pointing out with the post that you have quoted is the contradiction between being critical of Honda and Shell for making claims that are not substantiated with the proper certification, while at the same time supporting Valvoline's claims which are equally unsupported and also devoid of the appropriate certification. This seems hypocritical in execution of logic to me. Either one believes in the standards that are in place and the certifications that are there to ensure that they are being met, or they do not. They apply to all oil producers equally, or they apply to none.
In your own words Dave…..it’s in English on the front of the bottle. And on the back, Gasoline engines.
Dang, you better call Valvoline and straighten them out, because they still market and make oil for gas engines as well as diesel
OP
OP
Finally, real science!
You misunderstand me Andrew, I don’t favor or trust one over the other, like you I don’t buy in to the marketing like some other folks who bleed Honda red I have done UOA’s on the shell product since the rating has disappeared and caused panic in folks, and no difference when used in a gold wing etc.
It probably costs a lot of money to get the certification done, and why would a company who mainly markets trucking oil waste the money when it does not matter to their market?
It’s not that I don’t trust she’ll, I just personally don’t like the smell of it, what torn down engines look like that use it, and just like valvoline or chevron over it, which is funny, because my grandfather and his father both worked for shell for their entire adult careers.
As you pointed out, it’s the marketing or way they were marketing (or should I dare say misleading) folks with tricky wording (like Honda’s little square label saying that it meets their standards) but knowbidy knows if their marketing allows minimum or premium etc.
As others have pointed out, and UOA’s point out, their oil usually meets the minimum required standard etc.
I used it, I didn’t personally like it, and I moved on to a better quality oil for MY vehicles etc.
I still feel safe using just about anyone’s diesel oil in my bikes regardless of the JASO label missing or not.
Because after talking to many folks who work at chevron, valvoline, shell and others who produce and test the stuff, and who still choose to use it in their personal motorcycles, I choose to take the chance and use it in my bikes.
And being in the camp if I have used it for over 500,000 miles in various bikes with no issues, I still choose to keep using what works for me.
I have done UOA’s on the shell product since the rating has disappeared and caused panic in folks, and no difference when used in a gold wing etc.It probably costs a lot of money to get the certification done, and why would a company who mainly markets trucking oil waste the money when it does not matter to their market?
It’s not that I don’t trust she’ll, I just personally don’t like the smell of it, what torn down engines look like that use it, and just like valvoline or chevron over it, which is funny, because my grandfather and his father both worked for shell for their entire adult careers.
As you pointed out, it’s the marketing or way they were marketing (or should I dare say misleading) folks with tricky wording (like Honda’s little square label saying that it meets their standards) but knowbidy knows if their marketing allows minimum or premium etc.
As others have pointed out, and UOA’s point out, their oil usually meets the minimum required standard etc.
I used it, I didn’t personally like it, and I moved on to a better quality oil for MY vehicles etc.
I still feel safe using just about anyone’s diesel oil in my bikes regardless of the JASO label missing or not.
Because after talking to many folks who work at chevron, valvoline, shell and others who produce and test the stuff, and who still choose to use it in their personal motorcycles, I choose to take the chance and use it in my bikes.
And being in the camp if I have used it for over 500,000 miles in various bikes with no issues, I still choose to keep using what works for me.
Top secret lab
I’ll have to get a white lab coat and do a YouTube video, I guess that makes it official and believable.
That's funny to me. I remember thinking that Shell gasoline made my '96 Nighthawk's exhaust smell strange.
OP
OP
Top secret lab
I’ll have to get a white lab coat and do a YouTube video, I guess that makes it official and believable.
never, even on other boards, have I seen folks trying so hard to let others do as they please while simultaneously letting them know that any way except their own is wrong. Oil, a slippery slope of a topic…
I like this video because it mocks the oil thing so well.
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Just because... I'll never get that 8 mins. back, couldn't make it through. I put the best oil in my bike that is available at the time of purchase, not sure I have done back to back with the same in a while. I change it early and often, it's cheap, engines are expensive. 8k between changes, no thank you, 20k not a chance, 4k seems good unless things start feeling or sounding clunky, then I change it. Although I never used Diesel or anything on the fringe, I may now...(needed to pop my oil thread cherry, thanks for being a part of it)
Enjoy your day, go out and ride, after you change your oil!
Enjoy your day, go out and ride, after you change your oil!
What we need is a fort nine oil video.
Like his chain lube video. Tried every product on the market and found out plain old gear oil worked best.
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John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
There comes a time in the life of every ST-Owners oil thread when one must consider availing oneself of the wonderful little icon button located just above the upper right corner of the first post at the top of every page in the thread. As I will do so now. FWIW
John
FWIWJohn
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