Ignition Problem?

Igofar said:
Y
...
You didn't say if Bob was going to send you a spare switch to try?
...
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No, Bob said he would have to go check to see if he has one on a spare engine that is sitting in storage.... If he has one, he'll ship it to Jeff! ;)
 
Thanks Bob, I would like to see Jeff fix his bike before he reaches 400 posts or sells the damn thing :rofl1:
 
Speed sensor code is 11. I've had no codes at all, even upon performing the interrogation method outlined in the shop manual. I disagree that the test when not moving is not valid because it produces all of the exact symptoms seen on the road, that's why I never considered the speed sensor. No codes, no speedometer malfunction and the fact that it happens when the bike's stationary made me discount the VSS.
 
wjbertrand said:
Speed sensor code is 11. I've had no codes at all, even upon performing the interrogation method outlined in the shop manual. I disagree that the test when not moving is not valid because it produces all of the exact symptoms seen on the road, that's why I never considered the speed sensor. No codes, no speedometer malfunction and the fact that it happens when the bike's stationary made me discount the VSS.
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Process of elimination? Just one more thing to try....
 
Jeff,

I think your reasoning about the speed sensor code is logical, but it may be possible that whatever weirdness is causing the ECU to glitch is something that the SS initiates, but its not a normal fault condition that the ECU can detect and assign the appropriate error code. So I wouldn't rule it out completely just due to the lack of error code.

Might have missed a couple posts, did Larry have the same symptoms with bike stationary, or was his only when moving??
 
wjbertrand said:
Speed sensor code is 11. I've had no codes at all, even upon performing the interrogation method outlined in the shop manual. I disagree that the test when not moving is not valid because it produces all of the exact symptoms seen on the road, that's why I never considered the speed sensor. No codes, no speedometer malfunction and the fact that it happens when the bike's stationary made me discount the VSS.
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FWIW, I've repaired several issues on these bikes that never threw codes, sometimes you get one, sometimes you don't.
Don't believe everything you think, there were a couple episodes when SPOCK was wrong.
Logic does not always work when it comes to electrical stuff :rolleyes:
I'm just saying that this is what I would try at this point.
It may work, it may not, I just know that it worked twice for me with bikes cutting out and loosing the tachometer at the same time.
I did replace one on a Police motor last year, after complaints of his engine cutting out/ loosing the tachometer etc. This bike didn't throw a code either.
A new speed sensor switch corrected his issues.
I hope it works for you as well.
Larry
 
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I just happened to check the "other" forum a few minutes ago.....is it true? Have you been having this issue since early 2015?
 
Yes he has... the first post in this thread is June 2015. Lots of discussion about it on both forums.

I was surprised when you popped in with the speed sensor solution, wondering why you'd not posted it before.
 
paulcb said:
Yes he has... the first post in this thread is June 2015. Lots of discussion about it on both forums.

I was surprised when you popped in with the speed sensor solution, wondering why you'd not posted it before.
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he was too busy watching Star Trek re runs to see if Spck was ever wrong. Blasphemy
 
paulcb said:
Yes he has... the first post in this thread is June 2015. Lots of discussion about it on both forums.

I was surprised when you popped in with the speed sensor solution, wondering why you'd not posted it before.
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The white courtesy :call: has been ringing off the hook since I've retired :shrug1:
 
gsforster said:
What about just unplugging the sensor and try?
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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Unplugging it will set the FI malfunction code and if the bike will still run I'll test it that way first.

Igofar said:
I just happened to check the "other" forum a few minutes ago.....is it true? Have you been having this issue since early 2015?
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Yup, started in the middle of a ride back in 2015 and hasn't changed since. Important to note that the bike has sat for months at a time between ideas.
 
paulcb said:
Yes he has... the first post in this thread is June 2015. Lots of discussion about it on both forums.

I was surprised when you popped in with the speed sensor solution, wondering why you'd not posted it before.
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I was wondering the same. If you follow the "things tried" document I posted a couple days ago, all the logical stuff was looked at first, among them the TPS. I had a car with a bad TPS one time acted almost exactly like my bike does. From there the logic gets thinner and thinner...

I've had the bike to two Honda dealers, two local shops, both with dynos and even wrote a long letter to American Honda trying to appeal to their sense of curiosity. I included the list of things tried and all of the oscilloscope traces. I actually got a call back from their customer service group and a very nice woman forwarded my issue to their "model specialist". After a good 20 minutes or so on the phone he suggested that perhaps a soldered ground or some other connection within the harness could be the issue. This is what led me to perform the worlds first full ST1300 spinal cord transplant procedure. The Honda model specialist told me he's never come across this problem, which I tend to believe based on the fact that no one else has described it on some four different ST forums (with the possible exception of Igofar, if he turns out to be right). Even American Honda, which is only a 90 minute drive from me did not have the diagnostic harnesses, forget the dealers. There's also no apparent knowledge/expertise on the ECM programming in the US Honda structure. The specialist I spoke to on the phone had a normal American accent. There's probably some geeky engineer in a dark back corner somewhere in a Japanese Honda factory who is the real expert. How to reach him???

I wrote letters to Cycle World's and MCN's Downtime Files and even engaged Kevin Cameron in a few questions. Nobody, I mean nobody has ever suggested or even asked any questions about the speed sensor. I believe this is an extreme long shot but what else is left??
 
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wjbertrand said:
I was wondering the same. If you follow the things tried document I posted, all the logical stuff was looked at first, among them the TPS. I had a car with a bad TPS one time acted almost exactly like my bike does. From there the logic gets thinner and thinner...

I've had the bike to two Honda dealers, two local shops, both with dynos and even wrote a long letter to American Honda trying to appeal to their sense of curiosity. I included the list of things tried and all of the oscilloscope traces. I actually got a call back from their customer service from a very nice woman who forwarded my issue to a "model specialist". After a good 20 minutes or so on the phone he suggested that perhaps a soldered ground or some other connection within the harness could be the issue. This is what led me to the worlds first full ST1300 spinal cord transplant. The Honda model specialist told me he's not come across this problem, which I tend to believe based on no one else having described it on some four different ST forums (with the possible exception of Igofar, if he turns out to be right). Even American Honda, which is only a 90 minute drive from me did not have the diagnostic harnesses, forget the dealers. There's also no apparent knowledge/expertise on the ECM programming in the US Honda structure. Probably some geeky engineer in a back corner somewhere in Japanese Honda factory is the real expert. How to reach him???

I wrote letters to Cycle World's and MCN's Downtime Files and even engaged Kevin Cameron in a few questions. Nobody, I mean nobody has ever suggested or even asked any questions about the speed sensor. I believe this is an extreme long shot but what else is left??
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I guess since it's still a problem, something's got to be left, we just don't know what it is, yet... we're all waiting with bated breath on the speed sensor!

And once again Jeff, kudos to you for your 2+ years worth of efforts on this. Pretty sure most of us, me included, would have given up by now. It sure has been a fun ride (read) though!
 
For comparison sake it would be very handy to have the same oscilloscope tests done on a fully functional ST. We can see what's happening on Jeff's bike but we don't have anything to compare that against.
Any takers? (Me? I can barely spell oscilloscope!)
 
DavidR8 said:
For comparison sake it would be very handy to have the same oscilloscope tests done on a fully functional ST. We can see what's happening on Jeff's bike but we don't have anything to compare that against.
Any takers? (Me? I can barely spell oscilloscope!)
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For the testing we did, I'm sure the traces would look different. You can see the interruptions in the trace at the same time you hear and feel the misfire. A normally running bike does not produce the audible miss. The traces are clearly abnormal.
 
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