Its just too much light...

On my old 57 Chevy the brake light switch went out.
So I hooked the circuit to a horn button I secured to the 4 speed stick shift.
When a tailgater happened upon me, I would hit the button (which looked like I slammed on my brakes) and accelerate away. ;)
 
Driving home tonight l almost hand an accident on the last part of my route...

I have to pass through a comercical area, aside train tracks, no streetlights, no sidewalk...
Oncoming car with notorious LED headlights turns around the corner, spreading total glare, can't see $h!t... but sensed something up ahead in my lane, so I blipped my high beams, and indeed: a jogger, dressed fully black, running towards me, in my lane... :oops:
The flick of my high beams at least convinced him to step off the tarmac into the green, even more camouflaged against the the dark background there...
A bit faster and I would have had a new hood ornament... and serious legal issues...

Its a scandal that DMV's and all other legal departments involved had themself forced by the industry to legalize this crap...
By law any H4 lamp is limited to 55/60 watts, and at 800 to 1,200 lumens they are already on the upper side of brightness...
Already 5 watt LED headlight would noticeable exceed these numbers, but most car MFGs install 8~12 watt inserts which throw out 4,000 to 8,000 lumens, that pissing contest of "who has the brightest" is simply public endangerment... :mad:
Those headlights must be measured and restricted only by their lumen output and not the amount of power they draw...
 
I started putting H7 LED bulbs in my GT years ago. I needed something brighter than the stock halogen bulb for riding at night. Back in those days, the lumen rating was (I'm guessing) about 8,000 lumens. Amazon vendors double the numbers because they're selling two bulbs, so that would be like 4000 lumens. Aimed correctly, I never got anyone flashing their headlights at me, so all was copacetic.

Now, I see on a quick check on Amazon that they are selling H7 bulbs with a 70,000 lumen rating...about 35,000 lumens for each bulb. There's a race like in just about everything to have more than your competitors. That's ludicrous and dangerous. Especially since few people will check to see if their bulbs are aimed correctly, or not.

Chris
 
ST1100Y said:
Driving home tonight l almost hand an accident on the last part of my route...

I have to pass through a comercical area, aside train tracks, no streetlights, no sidewalk...
Oncoming car with notorious LED headlights turns around the corner, spreading total glare, can't see $h!t... but sensed something up ahead in my lane, so I blipped my high beams, and indeed: a jogger, dressed fully black, running towards me, in my lane... :oops:
The flick of my high beams at least convinced him to step off the tarmac into the green, even more camouflaged against the the dark background there...
A bit faster and I would have had a new hood ornament... and serious legal issues...

Its a scandal that DMV's and all other legal departments involved had themself forced by the industry to legalize this crap...
By law any H4 lamp is limited to 55/60 watts, and at 800 to 1,200 lumens they are already on the upper side of brightness...
Already 5 watt LED headlight would noticeable exceed these numbers, but most car MFGs install 8~12 watt inserts which throw out 4,000 to 8,000 lumens, that pissing contest of "who has the brightest" is simply public endangerment... :mad:
Those headlights must be measured and restricted only by their lumen output and not the amount of power they draw...
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Something that bothers me relative to LED lights is the degree of artsyfartsyness that has gone into some vehicles. Not a single bulb light, but multiples on either side of the vehicle. It is turning, or simply putting on a light show? Why do all the lights on one side turn off with the turn signal?
I agree also with the power of the bulbs. Some aftermarket units are available that are so bright that they cast the shadow of the vehicle they are following too closely wayyyyy down the road at night.
I'm usually a 'less government' sort, but in this case there likely should be some enforceable standards to promote safety and sanity.
 
Why I don't ride at night. A risk I don't have to take. I don't have the numbers, but raising your risk of getting hurt by doing so is about 40%. ??
 
Daboo said:
Now, I see on a quick check on Amazon that they are selling H7 bulbs with a 70,000 lumen rating...about 35,000 lumens for each bulb. There's a race like in just about everything to have more than your competitors. That's ludicrous and dangerous.
Click to expand...
I exchanged PM's w/ spiderman about this. As an electrician, I know that low end LED's crank out around 100 lumens/watt and better lamps around 125 l/watt. He told me to ignore the advertising hype...lumens sell and its easy to inflate the number in an ad and to go by the current draw (either wattage or amps). A 35k lumen lamp would draw over 230 amps (assuming a cutting edge LED running at 150 l/watt) so there is a bit of fiction here. Have you looked at some of the high output flashlights (Sofirn, Fenix, etc.)? They get so hot at high outputs that they will self shut down. My point is 35,000 lumens is fiction.

ST1100Y said:
and indeed: a jogger, dressed fully black, running towards me, in my lane...
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Aside from the issue you raised about auto headlights (I've told my wife I don't like to drive at night any more because after one of those blinding flashes my eyes lose whatever night vision I had), there is another one. How clever was that jogger to be wearing all black? In my upscale suburb that had no sidewalks until this year, people had to walk in the streets. Many of them wear/wore dark clothing and of course dusk did not stop them (no street lights). A friend (she is a tiny woman pushing 80 and looks it) was driving on my street and encountered a woman walking at dusk wearing a dark gray track suit. My friend stopped, rolled down her window and politely told the woman she barely saw her and brighter or reflective clothing would be safer. The walker launched into a tirade, yelling at my friend who just shrugged and drove away. Gotta remove stupidity from the gene pool somehow.
 
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SMSW said:
How clever was that jogger to be wearing all black? In my upscale suburb that had no sidewalks until this year, people had to walk in the streets. Many of them wear/wore dark clothing and of course dusk did not stop them (no street lights).
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That's the second issue there... at usual has an accident never one single cause, there is always a chain of factors leading into it...
But without the over-bright LEDs of the other car I would have seen the silhouette, be it a person or some wildlife (deer or boar don't care much about bright reflective clothing either ;) )
If I a) didn't wore my shooter yellow glasses or b) been distracted for just a fraction of a second right there and c) the jogger not 'giving in' and stepping off the road (and there numberless folks seeing it as sport/their declared mission to block roadways), the matter could have ended quite badly...

And the clothing issue is pretty much a standard urban situation these days, especially with the dusk/dawn in fall/winter:
intersections, bus/tram stops with or without pedestrian X-ing, you can't see crap over being blinded by some idiotic headlights (even worse with dew or rain droplets on windows and mirrors), and that people, despite various media warnings, prefer dark clothing in the winter plus like to jump out onto the lanes without any visual hint or warning just adds to it...
And then the Darwinism Award candidates in black clothes darting around on bicycles or stupid e-scoots with no lights, and no intentions to maintain commons sense or any respect of traffic rules mix into that all... pfffff...
 
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ST1100Y said:
...... and no intentions to maintain commons sense or any respect of traffic rules mix into that all... pfffff...
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This is a big contributing factor here in my opinion. For whatever reason the current city administration for the past eight years has been relentlessly telling pedestrians and bicyclists that they always have the right-of-way and that motorized vehicles must always yield to them. After being told this over and over for years they act as though they do and just go wherever they want whenever they want. They don't always have the right-of-way. There are rules that govern pedestrians and bicyclists just as there are rules governing motorized vehicles. On a regular basis I see pedestrians and bicyclists popping out in to traffic because they have the expectation that the traffic is going to stop for them because they have been told over and over that they have the right-of-way. The problem is when they don't have the right-of-way and the oncoming driver knows this and therefore is not preparing or expecting to stop.

Another issue that completely baffles me is the disregard that pedestrians and bicyclists have for their own safety. Regardless of whether a pedestrian or a bicyclist has the right-of-way or not they are dealing with vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds coming at them at speeds up to 30 or 40 MPH. If that vehicle hits them they are going to have just as bad a day if they had the right-of-way as if they didn't. I often see people cross the road without even looking. It seems to me that looking before proceeding in to a roadway should be considered the minimum level of effort that they exert.
 
Gotta repeat myself............
Once upon a time our species survived because of genetic differences in our response to immediate threats (predators).
Imagine the wind blowing down a tree with a group of predators nearby. Which pre-humans survive? Depends on the predator...some key on movement, some key on sound. Most likely keyed on that combination of responses. What's our immediate response to a mortal situation? Scream, yell, run around hysterically...all with no pattern....attract unwanted attention to our location......aka dino-food. Likely survivors would be those who stood perfectly still or concealed themselves if there was time.
Granted, some predators key on anything so those folk would also be dino-food...but most likely keyed on motion and loud noises.
Present day. There are few to no predators removing the run-around-and-scream-hysterically group from our midst. Their proportions are growing what with increasing safety regulations and such....some few of this group will follow those rules and regulations (they will survive to reproduce).
What do they do? Go into engineering, law, law enforcement, teaching, engineering, medicine,......and they drive vehicles.
Every crash I have witnessed has involved ignorant or hysterical behavior.....a completely inappropriate response to a potential threat.....including the screaming hysterically before the shock wears off.
There's a point here, somewhere.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
For whatever reason the current city administration for the past eight years has been relentlessly telling pedestrians and bicyclists that they always have the right-of-way and that motorized vehicles must always yield to them.
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Yeah, they've kinda gathered and motivated all militant tree huggers, moralist, do-gooder, pushbike terrorists, car hater, climate panic, doomsday prophet, energy transition believer, ICE ban follower... in short pretty much every irrational egocentric ignorant who should rather 'get a life'... ;)

So besides the 'who has the wider tires, louder exhaust, largest spoiler kit, the loudest pounding woofers, the darkest window tint, the bigger SUV' we now have the 'who has the brightest lights'... :rolleyes:
 
Oldbikefixr said:
Every crash I have witnessed has involved ignorant or hysterical behavior.....a completely inappropriate response to a potential threat.....including the screaming hysterically before the shock wears off.
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Every time I see reactions similar to what you describe on reality shows, or news footage, or in real life, it always baffles me how poorly so many people react to any level of stress. I often think to myself that I hope that I never have to rely on one of these people to save my life in some kind of an emergency. I am not claiming that I would know exactly what to do in a given situation any more than anyone else as I am not a trained rescue EMT, and I don't expect that from others either. What I do expect is a reasonable response based on thought and logic. If I am in dire need of immediate assistance standing there paralyzed with fear, screaming hysterically, and crying uncontrollably will only result in me dying of neglect.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
If I am in dire need of immediate assistance standing there paralyzed with fear, screaming hysterically, and crying uncontrollably will only result in me dying of neglect.
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I seriously doubt that unless those trained to handle such situations are cold hearted bastards or suspect you're faking or place you further down the ladder of triage than those in greater need.s Any or all of that may well be the case.

People react badly to situations of extreme stress differently for any number of reasons. Many of those are far beyond their control. Most people not having any training or inadequately trained in dealing with those in extremely stressful situations are often seen saying "Calm down" not realizing that almost never does any good.

It takes a lot to be able to tell yourself that hysteria isn't helping. Someone in that state is the last person to understand it. But some people can do it. There are no doubt some who choose to act out but I'd posit they pale in the number who are incapable of putting mind over pain or terror. It's often the task of others to relieve their physical pain and if possible quell their terror. Sometimes 2=2≠4.


BamaRider said:
Why I don't ride at night. A risk I don't have to take. I don't have the numbers, but raising your risk of getting hurt by doing so is about 40%. ??
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Riding at night never bothered me other than the reason for riding at night never actually requiring it. Riding at night either meant running out of daylight or leaving to or from work in darkness. The latter never bothered me as traffic was usually light and there was a certain solace to the dark and the quiet.

When convenient I'd take my bike especially if the ride home was in the light. There was a back road I took that was pleasant. At night it would have been risky which would mean instead taking a hwy and surface streets which would be dull. I preferred to be home kicking back enjoying a better use of the time.

Bright lights of cars or bikes were only an occasional and temporary annoyance for the most part. I never allowed myself to get wrapped up in their egregious behavior. It would just tick me off long after the incident was over.
 
ST Gui said:
I seriously doubt that unless those trained to handle such situations are cold hearted bastards or suspect you're faking or place you further down the ladder of triage than those in greater need.s Any or all of that may well be the case.
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That comment is not in reference to anyone trained to handle such. It is in reference to the people other than those trained who are the ones most likely to be around me when a tragedy of some sort befell me and whom I would have to look to for assistance before the professionals arrive on scene.

Anyone who has been trained to deal with emergency situations and whose job it is to respond to them who reacts by being paralyzed with fear, screaming hysterically, and crying uncontrollably, is obviously in the wrong job and I seriously hope that they would be immediately relieved of it.
 
Two thoughts come to mind regarding LED headlights on modern vehicles. Most (all?) industrialized nations have rigid lighting specifications manufacturers have to meet in order for the vehicle approval to be sold. Presumably today's OEM LED lighting patterns and intensity is as least as safe and effective as the halogen lighting it replaced. LED's installed in fixtures designed for halogen or incandescent bulbs escape rigid specification in the same manner as all modifications owners make to their vehicles and manufacturers cannot be blamed for actions of inconsiderate or unknowledgeable owners. I only presume that owners in the UK and European common markets have to pass annual vehicle inspections that check for illegal modifications. Arguments railing broadly against LEDs in general fall flat.

The second is how much natural aging and unnatural disease processes affects our vision. Before I had my cataracts removed at age 67 my night vision was reduced by what I describe as excess glare and "star" patterns created by oncoming traffic and bright street lighting. Following cataract surgery much of my complaints were resolved and my night vision was much improved. Degradation of vision due to age occurs slowly over time and it's all to easy to write off the degradation and blame other factors.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Every time I see reactions similar to what you describe on reality shows, or news footage, or in real life, it always baffles me how poorly so many people react to any level of stress. I often think to myself that I hope that I never have to rely on one of these people to save my life in some kind of an emergency. I am not claiming that I would know exactly what to do in a given situation any more than anyone else as I am not a trained rescue EMT, and I don't expect that from others either. What I do expect is a reasonable response based on thought and logic. If I am in dire need of immediate assistance standing there paralyzed with fear, screaming hysterically, and crying uncontrollably will only result in me dying of neglect.
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They will likely be the ones standing around taking cellphone videos and offering no assistance at all.
 
dduelin said:
Two thoughts come to mind regarding LED headlights on modern vehicles. Most (all?) industrialized nations have rigid lighting specifications manufacturers have to meet in order for the vehicle approval to be sold. Presumably today's OEM LED lighting patterns and intensity is as least as safe and effective as the halogen lighting it replaced. LED's installed in fixtures designed for halogen or incandescent bulbs escape rigid specification in the same manner as all modifications owners make to their vehicles and manufacturers cannot be blamed for actions of inconsiderate or unknowledgeable owners. I only presume that owners in the UK and European common markets have to pass annual vehicle inspections that check for illegal modifications. Arguments railing broadly against LEDs in general fall flat.

The second is how much natural aging and unnatural disease processes affects our vision. Before I had my cataracts removed at age 67 my night vision was reduced by what I describe as excess glare and "star" patterns created by oncoming traffic and bright street lighting. Following cataract surgery much of my complaints were resolved and my night vision was much improved. Degradation of vision due to age occurs slowly over time and it's all to easy to write off the degradation and blame other factors.
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I have to agree with you about the degradation of our eyesight as we age or as undiagnosed disease befalls us. It often creeps up on us slowly so that we do not become aware of it until it has become a problem.

I have to wonder if the regulations have caught up to the newer variants of LED lighting available. I spend a lot of time on the road and I often see what seems like overly bright headlights. Overwhelmingly this is from newer vehicles that came from the factory with LED lights so I can only presume that they are in compliance with the current regulations. This has led me to wonder whether the regulators haven't really determined what are the best controls to put on the different type of lighting that is projected from LED headlamps.
 
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