Japanese vs European Motorcycles

[maverickfhs]

So I was going through my list of motorcycles I have had over the years, sadly, I never had a European one.

I know many forum members come from BMW or other european brands.

If you have to compare, in terms of reliability and long term service cost, is it too high on European end vs Japanese? Maybe too broad of a statement, but just want any quick feedback.

Planning to either have a BMW or a Ducati - both used ones. Thanks for any insights.

 

[red one]

My uncle had a Triump Bonneville that I use to sneak and ride. It really vibed when you got on the throttle. That was over 35 years ago so I can't comment about the new Triumphs. I have seen where the Ducati will make you have loose wallet problems as your money will be flowing out of it frequently for parts and service. Especially if you want to ride it some distance. Would not be afraid to ride me a new BMW motorcycle though. They have greatly improved their products. Still they will be higher cost to maintain because of all the "electronic assist" components that could fail but so could any modern motorcycle nowdays. I have had Kawasaki's and a Honda and have found these to be bullet proof. I have pined here before that if my bike ever meets its demise I will be visiting my Yamaha dealer for a new modern Yamaha FJR sport tourer.

 

[scootac]

Take into account the resale value also.
I have an '81 BMW with 118xxx miles that would bring more than my '04 ST with 75xxx.

 

[okckeith]

I myself would go with BMW over Ducati. Don’t forget about Triumph. My ST shares the garage with a BMW, Triumph and a Suzuki. They all get along fine. No troubles out of any of them.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I began riding in the early 1960's. 'Industrial' quality cooters, Italian scooters, Triumph, BSA, Honda. Brit bikes were a real thrill when nothing was leaking out or falling off. Cushman was a waste. Italian scooters were cool and reliable but paint faded and rust formed while I was looking at them. Along came Honda. Always started up, leaked nothing, outperformed Harley and most Brit bikes (305 Superhawk and early CB450}. My first real turning point bike...smooth, Honda reliability, great performance (brakes, steering, acceleration, speed) was my 1970 CB750. Only briefly considered other makes after that. I have not been disappointed.

 

[Walleye]

I would have been happy if the 70 CB750 was the end of motorcycle progression, or the 850 Norton right shift

 

[Daboo]

Personally, I don't think you're missing anything by sticking with Japanese bikes.

I was a member of BMW MOA for a couple years. It astounded me to read of final drives failing me, and the owners accepting it as part of the wonderful BMW experience. I had a NT700V before my F800GT. From what I can tell, a final drive on them doesn't fail.

Chris

 

[wjbertrand]

I’ve owned two European bikes, a Norton and a Bultaco, both back in the late 60s early 70s. I learned a lot about mechanics from both of them. I’ve had Japanese bikes since, 3 Honda’s and 4 Yamahas. All the Japanese bikes were bullet proof except for the Yamaha XS750E, that one must have been built on a Monday or something. Listening to folks, my own experience, reading forums and considering the Consumer Reports reliability survey,it seems not much has changed. While I admire many Euro bikes, I’ve no desire to own another one.


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[klaproth]

I loved my Airheads for many years ( '71 R75/5, and '78 R100S) , but it seems as if BMW lost it's way when it shelved the Airhead line. BMW's used to be "Simple by Choice", but they seem to be going for the bigger/more complicated/shiny awards now, instead of simple, durable, easy to fix motorcycles. Yes, Hondas are quite complicated, but they just WORK.

As for other Euro brands, I've worked on just about all of them, and I just don't think they measure up to Jap bikes, especially considering the premium prices. I'll stick with a Honda.

 

[TipSTer]

BMW (Bring More Wallet) I was told by a friend that rides one

 

[Gerhard]

Part of the problem with the comparing cost of maintenance is that often people compare a full service to an oil change. If both bike are maintained by the book the cost of somethings will be higher some will be lower.

 

[SMSW]

Take into account the resale value also.
I have an '81 BMW with 118xxx miles that would bring more than my '04 ST with 75xxx.

I won't argue with what you have said, it is true. However. A lot of old BMW's can be had for very little (arbitrarily say under 3500), and an old Honda or Suzi brings $2000, that might be a lot. The difference is not all that much, and parts for older bikes (BMW) can be much higher than a Japanese bike. Used parts? If there were more Honda 750's made than Beemers of that era, used Honda parts are likely to be cheaper.

I was a member of BMW MOA for a couple years. It astounded me to read of final drives failing me, and the owners accepting it as part of the wonderful BMW experience.

I'm a member of a MOA affiliat club and I ride with them most weeks. The relatively high cost of ownership seems to be accepted by Beemer owners. It is not a matter (usually) of what you can afford, it is more a matter of what you WILL afford.

 

[Upt' North]

Can't really add to the debate much but I did once (don't know how I can remember it) own a Gilera 50 Trials moped. I thrashed the arris off it for twelve months and it never let me down really. The pedal start was hit and miss, but they all do that sir.
With regards the cost of maintenance I think for routine work there will be little difference, like Gerhard said if you pay a franchise for a full service on an ST or RT I can't think it would be so different. And if you replace your SMC every two years and pay Honda for the privilege or repair your Beemer final drives every 5 years, again it might even out.
Ride what you like fellas, just enjoy them.
Upt'North.

 

[Bikeric]

Had Triumph Bonneville, BSA Spitfire, Norton Commando Roadster, various other Triumphs, a TriBsa 350, went Japanese on the big bikes in 1974 due to the Commando blowing up far too frequently. Had a variety of Honda 4's then Kawasaki Z900, Suzuki GS1000 , Honda Sabre 750 V4, Yamaha FZR Genesis then my ST bought last year. Many other bikes in between such as CB160, CB 77, even a Lambretta TV175 whilst rebuilding the Bonnie to Thruxton specs in 1973. Don't know much about the new breed of Triumphs but owners seem happy enough with them. I would like an old Triumph to ride around Cornwall on Sundays, but need the reliability and power of the ST for work and commutes.

 

[maverickfhs]

TBH, I am glad not missing on anything, guess who's sticking to Japanese brand now? ME!

Thank you all for the feedback.

 

[TPadden]

Tails I win, heads you lose ... Old men remembering the good old days, who lament change and lament lack of it, doesn't matter because they really aren't buying anything new. .

Tom

 

[Capt_Gruuvy]

I'm fortunate to have worked at a shop where the owners had a passion for motorcycles and were frequently featured in magazines such as Bagger and other custom bike rags. We had a murder of HDs, a couple Triumphs, an old BSA and a Bultaco that nearly killed everyone who rode it.

How are your mechanic skills? Are you certified or a shade tree kinda tech? How thorough is your tool crib? Do you own a milling machine?

Owning an European bike that's been in other people's garages is less motorcycle and more relationship. A 1965 Triumph Bonny sounds neat and on the three days a year it runs well enough to leave the cul de sac it brings heaps of attention and thrill. But, it comes back and sits next to the short wheel base Land Rover waiting for parts. The '65 in our shop was beautiful but didn't run.

I've had BMWs, a K100 and an R75. Both phenomenal rides and unique from each other. The K parts are easy, the R parts can get difficult. Fun to ride but why? Who's going to help you keep this purring once you get past the routine maintenance?

Our shop had a few knuckleheads and shovelheads. We also had a machine shop on the premises. We could keep them running and we even had a 1938 with drag and wheelie bars that was a favorite at the local drag strip.

The ST1300 is far more comfortable, mechanically sound and more thrill and less ill than anything I have ever owned or have been responsible for maintaining. Owning a used unique bike has proven to be frustrating. Have an electrical problem, where do you go for help? Need jets for an original carb? That will be fun.

Finding parts for a stock Goldwing 1100 or 1500 can get sketchy. If you buy one you'll need two to pull parts from. Try to source a complete Vetter kit in decent shape. These were fairly popular but finding parts is tough.

This small town has one Moto Guzzi. It's a display piece at a local eatery.

You should own and ride what you want. Everyone should, but take into account your neighborhood. What are the local mechanics capable of handling? Is there an aged BMW guy near? Is there a Ducati certified anything within reach?

I'd rather spend an afternoon on a Honda Helix riding than an afternoon in my garage looking at something unique or "fun".

If I was in the market for a fun bike to restore and ride for fun it would be an 80s Japanese bike. I loved the look and parts would be difficult but not impossible to find. Something like a Yamaha Midnight Special. Those were something.

My $0.02

 

[TPadden]

If I was in the market for a fun bike to restore and ride for fun it would be an 80s Japanese bike.
My $0.02

My $.03... If I was in the market for a fun bike to ride it would be nothing older than fuel injected (even modern retro bikes are smart enough to fuel inject but make them look carbed), disk braked, tubless tired, post 2005 ANY bike. Certainly nothing from the 80's or 90's. Low mileage, less than 10 year old bikes are plentiful; and you can't beat reliable and CHEAP. If I were just going to look at and work on it, can't beat ANY Italian.

Tom

 

[SupraSabre]

When Chris and I went to Germany back in 1976, I bought a 1965 BMW. My mother-in-law had a total fit, because she thought I bought a BMW motorcycle! It wasn't, it was a four door rusted out cage that needed a lot of work. After working on that, I swore I would never own another piece of German engineering!

So, the only Foreign bikes I've ever owned have been a Suzuki 50 (my first bike) and three Yamahas, 2 250 twin two strokes and a 400 twin 4 stroke. Other than those it's been Hondas for me.

Since I learned to maintain/rebuild my own bikes out of necessity, because I couldn't afford shop prices. I decided Hondas were the best bet in reliability!

Then after dealing with Mid 80's V4s (Sabres) for over 20 years, I got tired of looking for parts and spending a month on them before I could take them on a long ride. That's why I went to the ST1300. Besides, my brother told me I wouldn't have to spend much maintenance time on them! He lied!

Actually, he didn't, because for the first 50,000 miles of my '05, although I had to replace the thermostat (@17K) and fuel pump (@30K & under warranty), I really didn't do much to it other than maintenance. Even with the commuting I do, I can do a lot more riding, then wrenching. Which is the way I prefer it.

I really do need to flush the brakes on the 2010 again, but that will happen when I go to replace the tires in about 3,000 miles.

 

[sennister]

I myself would go with BMW over Ducati. Don’t forget about Triumph. My ST shares the garage with a BMW, Triumph and a Suzuki. They all get along fine. No troubles out of any of them.

That is because they don't speak the same language.

I have always considered a R1200GSA my powerball bike. I have always been intrigued by one. I call it my powerball bike because I really don't have any place to ride it off road anywhere near me and commuting on one seems a bit silly. While plenty of people ride them with street tires I just don't know. A buddy recently got a F800GS and I took that out on a quick zip around the block. It wasn't bad but it sure was different from a ST. I keep saying that one of these days I might go by a dealer when they have an open house or rent one for a week. That will either get me over my curiosity of them or make me want one more.